The future of Ottawa's Transit

[JCL]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Report on smaller buses, NOT recommended

I personally disagree. If a 30-foot model is otherwise identical to a 40-foot model that OC currently has (the only option would be the Orion VII NG) and placed in the fleet, the parts would be mostly interchangable, and the fuel savings would be worth it on low ridership routes. The best choice would be a heavy-duty, 30-foot, low-floor bus, probably hybrid as it would not be used much on the Transitway. Cutaways would be useless.

If a whole new model is introduced, then yes I agree, it would be a cost issue.

OC Transpo use to operate small "cutaway" vans on Routes 123 and 143/147-interline between 1998 to 2008. Between 1998 and 2005 there were two vans operating in the fleet (fleet numbers 9750 and 9899). In 2005 those two vehicles were retired from service because of the short lifecycle and were replaced with only one cutaway van (number 2601). 2601 was used exclusively on Route 123, which was subsequently retired from service in September 2009.

Several things you have to keep in mind:
- There would be increase in deadheading cost during the transition of bus type. If you want to operate a smaller bus at a specific time periods during the week, the driver of a regular bus would have to deadhead back to the garage and another operator with the smaller would have to deadhead to the starting location.
- Bus operators, regardless of the bus type or the bus length they are driving, are compensated with the same hourly wage as per the collective agreement. So there is no savings in this particular aspect.

So, I would have to agree with OC Transpo management's response on this issue.

[eternallyme]

Continuing in the suburbs, these two maps show my thoughts, post-LRT, for Barrhaven:

Barrhaven North/Centre



Barrhaven South



Like with Kanata, there are significant assumptions made here, especially in South Barrhaven. All express routes are replaced with locals.

In Phase I, Route 92 ends at Tunney's Pasture with some trips continuing downtown (about 3/4 of trips during peak periods and about 1/2 of trips at most other times). Some local routes are extended to Baseline as well in Phase I during peak periods in order to replace (partially) express service. In Phase II, Route 92 ends at Baseline, and is combined with most local routes to reduce transfers. It was not mentioned on the Kanata page but the same happens with the 96 and locals there to Bayshore.

92 - Replaces Route 95 (and 94 along the Transitway) to Barrhaven, as a split is necessitated with the 95 detached en route to Orleans. It becomes the main route in the area, operating all day, about every 15 minutes in Phase II (much more often in Phase I without locals, as often as every 2-3 minutes during peak periods). All trips extend to Barnsdale Station (ultimately, once the Greenbank corridor is built) with most peak period and some midday and evening trips on weekdays extended to a massive Park and Ride at Bankfield/416 (NOT 417 as on the map, OOPS) with about 3,000 stalls.

109 - As mentioned previously, connects with limited stops Kanata and Barrhaven during peak periods via Fallowfield Village. In addition, all-day service would be provided to Riverview in order to provide a connection between Barrhaven Centre and Riverside South. Peak period service would also extend farther, to Leitrim, for an O-Train peak period connection. Stops would be limited to speed up service.

116 - Replaces the 176 in Barrhaven with no other changes, extending along the Merivale corridor.

117 - Replaces the 173 to Bayshore from Barrhaven with a minor extension south of Strandherd if developed. In addition, several evening trips and intermittent weekend service (six trips on Saturday, four on Sunday) should be provided to Bayshore - weekend trips would remain on Greenbank and bypass the community.

170 - Modest routing changes made to simplify service and reduce duplication. The weekend routing difference remains since the 117 is not available.

171 - For the most part, unchanged, except for minor tweaks in streets to maximize service potential. Service hours and frequency remain unchanged.

172 - Replaces Route 94 along Woodroffe then along Strandherd, Claridge and Berrigan en route to Barrhaven Centre. Since the 170 and 172 will be interlined at Barrhaven Centre, it will effectively form a loop and bring all-day service closer to parts of central Longfields. (I considered using the 170 number but that would be awkward in Phase II with both routes extended to Baseline.)

174 - Only implemented if development occurs at Strandherd/Fallowfield/416, which I believe is zoned for a shopping centre. If development occurs there, it would be a peak period route if a business park, or a shopping hours route if a shopping/commercial area.

175 - Unchanged through Stonebridge. In addition, the limited non-peak period trips should be extended to Carleton Lodge. Service remains intermittent but slightly increased - every 30 minutes during peak periods, three midday and two evening trips, five trips on Saturday and three on Sunday.

176 - A strong assumption route. Once South Barrhaven is developed significantly, this route replaces the 177 west of the new Greenbank/Transitway corridor, and service increases based on development levels.

177 - Routing based on the Official Plan. Service increased to all day, 7 days a week (that should be in 2012) and extended southward with development. Once built out, the western half would be replaced by the 176.

179 - Peak period route providing service to Fallowfield, the RCMP HQ and Baseline from east Barrhaven also supplementing the 116.

180 - Peak period route providing service to the CFIA facility on Fallowfield, also to Jockvale Road and Wessex/Exeter. Only one trip in each direction will service CFIA.

181 - Replaces Route 94 to the RCMP HQ and Bill Leathem. Once fully developed, some midday service will be added as well.

183 - Peak period route similar to the current Route 77 via Beatrice and Earl Mulligan (allowing the Oriska Way link to be closed).

In Phase II, all of Routes 170, 171, 172, 174, 175, 176, 177, 179, 180, 181 and 183 are extended as part of the 92 Combined Route to Baseline to join up with the LRT, while Routes 116 and 117 provide connections elsewhere. In Phase I, selected trips continue onward as well during peak periods only.

[Cre47]

So tomorrow, apparently we will be hearing what will be the improvements made on reducing the overcrowding, steaming from obviously the failed-optimization or a.k.a the massive cutting spree (failed considering they are already re-putting an extra $6 million onto the system which might be nowhere good enough to fix the overcrowding.

Noticed the TTC are making massive cuts as well to the system, at least from what I've read a few weeks ago on I think it was the City-TC site.

Checking the winter schedules, the 95 certainly has more trips but problem at around 7 AM there is a 16 minute-gap east of Hurdman. That might be one place it might overcrowd.

[Cre47]

Basically the 92 will end basically at the entrance (or close to) that new future massive development planned for Manotick. Basically the P&R I guess is mostly in anticipation of the Manotick suburplosion.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Cre47

Basically the 92 will end basically at the entrance (or close to) that new future massive development planned for Manotick. Basically the P&R I guess is mostly in anticipation of the Manotick suburplosion.

Yeah pretty much it follows with growth and the Greenbank corridor. The P&R is strategic to catch as much traffic off the 416 as possible with about 3,000 stalls and perhaps a parking garage (Strandherd should be removed IMO and converted to just a walk-on station).

[Cre47]

Wow they are putting two (yes TWO) weekday trips between Sandy Hill and the Hospital and two (yes TWO) weekday trips between Sandy Hill and Rideau Street and that's during off-peak. What's the point? No one if any will bother using those new trips. Also the hospital trips starts at the southern end of Sandy Hill at Wiggins and Chapel rather then at Mackenzie King Station or King Edward at Somerset

http://ottawa.ca/cgi-bin/pressco.pl?&Elist=17345&lang=en

Note the increases and new trips are not shown yet in the winter schedules, well at least those that have routing tweaks, the new maps showing those new routing are shown.

Also why isn't the 87 starting at Baseline before 8 AM on weekdays. That means a large stretch of Woodroffe without buses for most of the AM rush hour which wasn't the case when the 174 used to run to Carlingwood. There were buses starting at 6 AM.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Cre47

Wow they are putting two (yes TWO) weekday trips between Sandy Hill and the Hospital and two (yes TWO) weekday trips between Sandy Hill and Rideau Street and that's during off-peak. What's the point? No one if any will bother using those new trips.

http://ottawa.ca/cgi-bin/pressco.pl?&Elist=17345&lang=en

They should just start a new route instead of adding useless trips. The problem is that the biggest ridership potential - medical students - have their own system.

[MalcolmTucker]

How is that a problem?

[Cre47]

Well we've have our answer as to why the 16 is now running on Richmond Road between Kirkwood and Holland. Because of NIMBY's on Byron Avenue saying the buses shake the houses. Just typical of Westboro. Can we call this Whine-boro?

Sorry about some of my posts lately, but sometimes, it's just incredible some of the stupidities in Ottawa and Gatineau lately.

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2011/12/15/im-moving-from-selfish-ottawa-an-angry-city/

[S-Man]

I've never understood the perceived shaking from a bus driving down a street several hundred yards away. People in Crystal Beach referenced the earthquake-like shaking and ear-splitting noise when they were trying to cancel the transitway to Kanata. The community would be destroyed if a busway were built next to the existing eight lane superhighway located adjacent to their neighbourhood. I live across the street from the Queensway downtown and near the O-Train, and I've never felt a vibration.
And there's expansion joints on a nearby bridge, yet have I ever been disturbed or woken up? Never. Honestly, never once. You have to wonder how fragile these people's psyche's are.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by cre47

well we've have our answer as to why the 16 is now running on richmond road between kirkwood and holland. Because of nimby's on byron avenue saying the buses shake the houses. Just typical of westboro. Can we call this whine-boro?[/url]

yes! We can totally do that!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by s-man

i've never understood the perceived shaking from a bus driving down a street several hundred yards away. People in crystal beach referenced the earthquake-like shaking and ear-splitting noise when they were trying to cancel the transitway to kanata. The community would be destroyed if a busway were built next to the existing eight lane superhighway located adjacent to their neighbourhood. I live across the street from the queensway downtown and near the o-train, and i've never felt a vibration.
And there's expansion joints on a nearby bridge, yet have i ever been disturbed or woken up? Never. Honestly, never once. You have to wonder how fragile these people's psyche's are.

it was crystal beach's 9-11!!!!

[eternallyme]

Continuing my map proposals, these are for Orleans.

Unlike with Kanata and Barrhaven, these should be in place when the initial Phase I LRT opens (to Blair), only changing afterward as more areas are developed. Some of the frequencies may be lower before full build-out. Since the Cumberland Transitway will likely be built in the middle term, but not by 2017, it is shown in light green with the 94 on both alignments (current and ultimate).

West Orleans



East Orleans

[eternallyme]

Most routes are extended to Blair, beginning in Phase I. Most are extended from Place d'Orleans then along the 95 routing.

94 - No changes initially except for ending at Blair, except perhaps a reduction in the number of stops. Once the Cumberland Transitway is built, it is shifted onto that alignment.

95 - The colours on the map are misleading - the 95 Combined Route will operate all day, at good frequency. The "actual" 95 will generally only replace the 95 TRIM section on weekdays as they are now. The 95 will only extend downtown overnight when LRT service is unavailable (from about 1 am to 6 am). It will not run on weekends except in the overnight hours - the locals will provide such service.

113 - Replaces Route 193 along St. Joseph, except it goes to Blackburn Hamlet instead of Blair (no LRT connection). Service would be limited to five trips daily - one in each direction in peak periods, two midday trips and one evening trip (no weekend service).

120 - Extended southward as the area is developed. No changes to the schedule are recommended except for extra peak period trips to cover the 20.

121 - New peak period route replacing the 27, with some trips also serving a developing industrial area south of Innes.

122 - On weekdays, it would follow RR174 rather than North Service for a faster trip (see also 138). It would also be realigned around and back to Millennium to serve the areas between Trim and Frank Kenny once developed. Weekend service would remain on North Service.

123 - New route replacing the 37 and a part of the 131, serving Bilberry and Hiawatha Park during peak periods. In addition, six weekday, five Saturday and four Sunday trips would be added to serve St. Louis Residence and north Convent Glen on a straighter route.

129 - New peak period route focused on Trim Road, as a faster trip than the 122. It would run straight down Trim to Wall Road.

130 - Realigned to focus on south Orleans, via Brian Coburn and the community south of the Cumberland Transitway (following the 94 to Blair). It would operate weekdays only, every 15 minutes during peak periods and every hour in midday and evenings.

131 - Realigned to operate a straight route from Place d'Orleans along St. Joseph to serve the bulk of the corridor, then along Forest Valley and south/east like it does now. During peak periods, most trips would go directly to Jeanne d'Arc and Blair, bypassing St. Joseph (ensuring a 30 minute frequency on St. Joseph most of the time).

132 - Realigned to focus on Belcourt and Sunview, then southward into new communities near Renaud/Mer Bleue. Frequency increased slightly.

133 - New route replacing parts of 130 and 131 on the long two-way loop around Orleans. Unlike other routes, it would remain in Orleans - no extension to Blair. Princess Louise is only served on weekends.

134 - Extended slightly to service areas east of Page and north of Navan. Service hours expanded to all day, 7 days a week. Most peak period trips bypass Orleans Town Centre and Place d'Orleans (only serving the Park and Ride in the morning, full bypass in the afternoon).

135 - Mostly unchanged except it punches eastward near Brian Coburn to serve more new communities with full service. On weekends it is extended to Mer Bleue covering the 130.

136 - No changes to routing or schedule except for the extension.

137 - Route slightly shorter, staying north of Innes. Peak period trips supplemented by 121. Frequency and service hours mostly unchanged except for more peak period trips replacing 21.

138 - New route replacing parts of 34, 38 and 132 on weekdays. Full service is provided on weekdays in order to maximize service to La Cite Collegiale (Orleans campus) but no weekend service.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

120 - Extended southward as the area is developed. No changes to the schedule are recommended except for extra peak period trips to cover the 20.

133 - New route replacing parts of 130 and 131 on the long two-way loop around Orleans. Unlike other routes, it would remain in Orleans - no extension to Blair. Princess Louise is only served on weekends.

Forgive me if I feel defensive over your proposals, as I live on a street off Princess Louise Drive (somewhere in the middle section).

What is your reason behind having your proposed Route 133 operate only on weekends only (replacing parts of the present Route 131)? Because I will tell you that it is very long walk to catch a bus if you are living in the middle section of Princess Louise.

Futhermore, post Route Optimization that occured this past September, Route 120 only operates during rush hour and select trips during the midday and evenings. It will be a very long walk for those who live off parts of Montcrest if there's no service on Princess Louise.

There have always been service 7 days a week on Princess Louise since I was born (I'm 24 years old). Removal of service on Princess Louise during any day of the week is completely unjustified.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by JCL

Forgive me if I feel defensive over your proposals, as I live on a street off Princess Louise Drive (somewhere in the middle section).

What is your reason behind having your proposed Route 133 operate only on weekends only (replacing parts of the present Route 131)? Because I will tell you that it is very long walk to catch a bus if you are living in the middle section of Princess Louise.

Futhermore, post Route Optimization that occured this past September, Route 120 only operates during rush hour and select trips during the midday and evenings. It will be a very long walk for those who live off parts of Montcrest if there's no service on Princess Louise.

There have always been service 7 days a week on Princess Louise since I was born (I'm 24 years old). Removal of service on Princess Louise during any day of the week is completely unjustified.

The 120 would still serve it on weekdays, although less frequently (if ridership warrants, frequency could increase, but may not be warranted now - although having only that option might increase ridership). If there is severe service holes, then the 133 could divert then as well during the midday and evenings, but not during peak periods since the 120 would be frequent during those times.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

The 120 would still serve it on weekdays, although less frequently (if ridership warrants, frequency could increase, but may not be warranted now - although having only that option might increase ridership). If there is severe service holes, then the 133 could divert then as well during the midday and evenings, but not during peak periods since the 120 would be frequent during those times.

I don't know how much more Route 120's frequency can be reduced. As mentioned previously, they've already reduced the frequency to just rush hour only / two midday trips / two (soon to be three starting January 9th) evening trips after the Route Optimization process. Route 120 provided an all day service 7-days a week between September 2009 and September 3 2011.

Yes, there will be severe service holes if your proposal of Route 133 does not enter Princess Louise during the week.

[Cre47]

Once the Avalon section of Portobello will be expanded further southward to about Wall Road or further south, they will have no choice but to re-instate the cuts on that route as it is fairly large area that will be far from the 122, the 135, Brian Coburn blvd and the future Transitway. The 122 will have to focus on the portion around and east of Trim as well as the new subdivision planned right along the 174 east of Trim. I don't think one route serving the entire area of Avalon (the Cumberland Transitway will be much closer to Innes) will be nearly enough and the 130 would probably have to be extended on weekends as well once the Hospital will be built on Mer Bleue as well as development west of Tenth Line continues.

Obviously been at the proximity of three local routes right now don't help the 120 as well.

[Cre47]

Meanwhile some STO news. Sounds like it will be 52 articulated buses that will be bought before 2014 as well as 16 hybrid buses and only 7 regular ones. Pretty obviously that the big chunk of those will be used on the Rapibus. All the buses will be wheelchair accessible, which will double the current number of thoses from 49 to 101 buses.

The site says that all trips on routes 36, 37, 38 and 300 are served by wheelchair accessible buses, but I would say that the majority of weekend trips on the entire network are served by wheelchair accessible buses right now and I would say close to half of midday trips as well.

The next routes that should be fully accessible aside from the Rapibus routes should be the 67/77 (except probably some peak trips on the 67 considering there are running on average every 5/8 minutes even if the intervals are all over the place).

[Uhuniau]

Has the NCC forgotten about the interprovincial transit study? Coz I haven't.