The future of Ottawa's Transit

[Uhuniau]

Why isn't there continuous service along Meadowlands?

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why isn't there continuous service along Meadowlands?

Well, that might be feasible as well, but I chose not to do it because:

1) It would leave a larger service hole in terms of full service (Chesterton, Viewmount west of Merivale) - the distance along that section is 1.25 km (either side to the 81 or 116, which would both be high-frequency routes, more than they are now) so no one is more than 675m from high-frequency service. By keeping it on Meadowlands, the gap is 3.2 km in two sections (Viewmount east of Merivale would still have the 3, but Viewmount west of Merivale and Chesterton would have only the 58 which would be low frequency).

2) Densities are fairly low on Meadowlands between Viewmount and Merivale, and significantly higher on/near Viewmount and Chesterton. The commercial area at Merivale/Meadowlands would also still be only a short walk from the 81 and easily accessible.

3) There is a development area south of Viewmount between Merivale and Woodroffe. Having a high-frequency route on Chesterton might give impetus to develop that to high levels, which often happens near major routes.

4) Having two routes instead of one route with only a short split-section would result in lower frequencies, and IMO it would make more sense to walk to a route that runs every 10-15 minutes (or less) instead of having two that run every 30 minutes when coverage is generally good.

5) Large numbers of trips (about 25% of the catchment area of the current 86 and those areas are generally among the highest densities) going to Tunney's Pasture from Nepean Centre also have the option of the 116 (current 176), and its frequency will be increased accordingly - generally every 15 minutes.

The 58 is only a gap-filling route to reduce walking distances at certain times of day since they are not desirable at peak periods but acceptable at most other times. It would probably run every 20 minutes during peak periods and every hour on weekdays during the midday and early evening, with one or two late trips. There would most likely be no weekend service unless ridership patterns warrant (i.e. 86B trips from that immediate area to Baseline).

[eternallyme]

The final map inside the Greenbelt (ah the easy part! Now I have to make a lot of assumptions!), covering around Bells Corners and towards Greenbank.



66 - Some weekday trips are extended to Robertson/Moodie like the 152 is now.

67 - Renumbering of 180 from Haanel (CANMET/EMR) with no other changes.

68 - Replaces the 97 from Bayshore to Bells Corners. Frequency is increased at certain times of day, particularly on weekends. The Queensway-Carleton Hospital is not served during peak periods in the peak direction, and at other times only on request (based on a trigger signal) in order to speed up service yet have service there, especially during times the 71 and 117 do not run.

69 - Converted from an express route to a peak period feeder route. The routing is lengthened in order to expand the catchment area and bring more of the residential area closer while separating it from the 68. In Phase I, it would end at Tunney's Pasture, but in Phase II, at Bayshore.

70 - Slightly shorter than the current 67 as the 74 would serve Siskin. In Phase I (not previously mentioned), it would continue to Tunney's Pasture but in Phase II end at Lincoln Fields.

71 - Replaces the southern part of the 152 through the Qualicum area. A few weekday trips would deviate to serve Cedarview and Bell High School. Service hours unchanged from the current 152 except weekend trips would terminate at Pinecrest/Iris.

72 - Renumbering of existing 172 with no major changes.

74 - Extended from the current 174 terminus to the end of Siskin.

103 - Replaces the 101 along the Queensway corridor. Service hours are reduced somewhat with late evening and Saturday service eliminated.

108 - New limited stop service along the 118 routing to speed up service. It is assumed that bus lanes will exist along most of the routing. It may initially start as a peak period route then expand on weekdays.

112 - New peak period route from Bayshore to Bridlewood via Bells Corners providing a link that the current 66 provides. It would be less frequent than the current 66 though.

117 - Replaces the 173 with a different route via Baseline and Richmond. Service hours somewhat better than current route with limited evening and weekend service.

118 - No change to the mainline except for some frequency increases. The peak period Bells Corners deviation is eliminated but the 68, 69 and 112 are all options for the residential area.

Not shown is the current rural express service to Richmond. It might be shifted onto another corridor, I haven't got that far yet.

[OttawaSteve]

http://twitter.com/#!/dianedeans

Freezing rain and snow expected to start at midnight tonight. OC Transpo would be a great choice tomorrow.
22 Nov

RT @OCTranspoAlerts: There are now delays of up to 30 minutes on many routes due to the snow. #OCTranspo
6 hours ago

[S-Man]

From the Transit Commission chair quoted in the media as saying she's like to take the bus one day when she finds the time to do so.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by OttawaSteve

http://twitter.com/#!/dianedeans

30 minute delays for this level of snow? If that is the case, then there must be really bad drivers in this event (not just bus drivers but car drivers). Just wait until the massive blizzards with 30-60 cm or more.

[Cre47]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

30 minute delays for this level of snow? If that is the case, then there must be really bad drivers in this event (not just bus drivers but car drivers). Just wait until the massive blizzards with 30-60 cm or more.

Well that's kinda expected with the current scheduling system in place. I have heard a lot of negativity on Live Journal with the scheduling.

They need to cut on interlining and dead-heading. Probably contributed to the increased of trips very late after the strike.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

30 minute delays for this level of snow? If that is the case, then there must be really bad drivers in this event (not just bus drivers but car drivers). Just wait until the massive blizzards with 30-60 cm or more.

There have been worse delays for 10 or 15 mm of RAIN.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

There have been worse delays for 10 or 15 mm of RAIN.

Makes me wonder what will happen if Ottawa gets a historic snow dumping this winter on a weekday...

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Makes me wonder what will happen if Ottawa gets a historic snow dumping this winter on a weekday...

SNOWMAGEDDON!

Meh. It happens umpteen times a winter. No one seems to care any more when the buses line up from Lees to Lebreton. And no one is willing to do the obvious, and get rid of express buses that are a large chunk of the problem.

Might as well give up beating our heads against the wall. Besides, it feels good when you stop.

[eternallyme]

I noticed they still have not updated the schedules or posted the Christmas ones yet. I wonder what it will be over the Christmas holiday period?

If I drew it up, it would be:

December 23 - Regular weekday schedule EXCEPT I think the Transitway and core routes (not the express routes) should be increased during the early afternoon for those leaving early

December 24 - Saturday schedule

December 25 - Reduced Sunday schedule (I would run the 95 every 15 minutes, other Transitway, the O-Train and core routes every 30 minutes and locals with Sunday service every hour)

December 26 - Saturday schedule

December 27 - Modified Saturday schedule (I would add more early runs on Transitway service and some additional local service for those who do have to work)

December 28 and 29 - Reduced weekday schedule (no school trips, fewer expresses and peak runs, off peak as normal weekday)

December 30 - Reduced weekday schedule PLUS additional early afternoon Transitway and core route trips

December 31 - Saturday schedule

January 1 - Sunday schedule

January 2 - Modified Saturday schedule (same as December 27)

January 3 to 6 - Reduced weekday schedule (same as December 28 and 29)

[eternallyme]

Back to my future proposals, here are the maps for Kanata and Stittsville. There are 4 maps. The description is in the next post.

All express routes are eliminated, replaced by more local routes with varying patterns and schedules. Many of these are pure assumptions based on potential land use patterns in the next 12-15 years, and aligned to possible collector roads.

Central Kanata


North Kanata


South Kanata


Stittsville/West Kanata

[Cre47]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I noticed they still have not updated the schedules or posted the Christmas ones yet. I wonder what it will be over the Christmas holiday period?

If I drew it up, it would be:

December 23 - Regular weekday schedule EXCEPT I think the Transitway and core routes (not the express routes) should be increased during the early afternoon for those leaving early

December 24 - Saturday schedule

December 25 - Reduced Sunday schedule (I would run the 95 every 15 minutes, other Transitway, the O-Train and core routes every 30 minutes and locals with Sunday service every hour)

December 26 - Saturday schedule

December 27 - Modified Saturday schedule (I would add more early runs on Transitway service and some additional local service for those who do have to work)

December 28 and 29 - Reduced weekday schedule (no school trips, fewer expresses and peak runs, off peak as normal weekday)

December 30 - Reduced weekday schedule PLUS additional early afternoon Transitway and core route trips

December 31 - Saturday schedule

January 1 - Sunday schedule

January 2 - Modified Saturday schedule (same as December 27)

January 3 to 6 - Reduced weekday schedule (same as December 28 and 29)

http://www.octranspo1.com/routes/christmas_holiday_service

Sounds like the 25th and 1st will be on regular Sunday service

The 23rd will be regular weekday service and the 26th, 27th and the 2nd will run on regular Saturday schedule.

Though the timetables are still not posted as eternallyme posted. Usually this and the winter timetables were posted around Remembrance Day. Maybe they are continuing to do some tweaks in response to the insane amount of complaints throughout the fall.

[eternallyme]

In those maps:

93 - Extended and slightly realigned to provide a better connection in the area. During peak periods it should be extended to Dunrobin/March where a Park and Ride should be built. In Phase I, it would end at Tunney's Pasture during peak periods and Bayshore at other times, while in Phase II it would end at Bayshore.

96 - Follows the Transitway (assuming it is built) from Terry Fox via Scotiabank Place to Fernbank then on to Stittsville Centre. Note that the frequency may be overdone, in many sections in Phase II once combined with locals it would provide a high frequency but may only be worthy of a blue colour in the far end.

101 - Some peak period trips originating on the Carling rapid corridor would continue to Kanata North via Carling. It would end at the end of Solandt.

103 - Some peak period trips originating in the east end via the Queensway would continue to Kanata North to ensure crosstown service. It would end at Innovation/Terry Fox.

108 - Would end at Hazeldean Station. As previously mentioned, limited stop, weekday-only version of the 118 in order to speed up service.

109 - New peak period rapid transit limited stop route along the March/Eagleson corridor then on to Barrhaven and Riverview. It would only stop at certain locations in order to speed up service. It would end at the Dunrobin/March Park and Ride.

112 - Replaces the 66 link to Bayshore via Bells Corners. It would run a straighter route through Bridlewood from Fernbank Station.

118 - Realigned with a split terminus with alternating trips - half of trips would run along Terry Fox and Campeau to Terry Fox Station (as they do now), while half of trips would continue along Hazeldean to Stittsville Centre, replacing the 96.

151 - New local route for the future Fernbank Lands development. Once fully built-up, it will run all day, 7 days a week. Initially it will run less, starting as a peak period route then building up. Route is estimated based on collector road patterns.

152 - New local route serving central Stittsville and Stanley Corners currently served by the 263. It would operate every 30 minutes during peak periods only.

153 - Replaces the 183 from Scotiabank Place to Terry Fox along Palladium Drive with no other changes.

154 - New local route replacing the 262 from Scotiabank Place to Carp Road and West Ridge in Stittsville. It would operate every 15 minutes during peak periods only.

157 - New local route serving the business areas along/near Carp Road from Rothbourne to Richardson Side Road, then on to Kanata. It would operate with two morning and two afternoon trips.

158 - New local route through a large part of Stittsville currently served by the 261. It would operate every 30 minutes during peak periods plus a few off-peak trips on weekdays, with no weekend service.

160 - Local route replaces the 60 from Kanata North to Eagleson for a quicker transfer. Routing revised to reduce duplication with the 93 and serve new communities as they are built. It would run every 15 minutes during peak periods only.

161 - Becomes the main all-day route for Bridlewood and Castlefrank. It would operate through the communities, then into southern Bridlewood. On weekends, it would operate a different routing including a full loop of Bridlewood and via Glen Cairn. It would operate every 8-10 minutes during peak periods in order to cover the 61, and every 20-30 minutes at most other time periods. Some peak period trips would deviate via Palomino.

162 - New local route serving the future community west of Terry Fox and supplementing 168 in parts of Kanata Lakes. Once fully built-up, it will run all day, 7 days a week. Initially it will run less, starting as a peak period route then building up.

163 - Not much change from the current routing except for a deviation along Castlefrank and McCurdy instead of Katimavik. It would operate every 15 minutes during peak periods and every 60 minutes during midday and some evening trips, but no weekend service.

164 - Becomes the secondary local route for Glen Cairn and along the Terry Fox corridor, as well as serving the communities near Hope Side Road. It would operate every 15 minutes during peak periods to replace the 62. During midday and evenings it would operate every 60 minutes until about 10 pm, and on weekends during the daytime from about 9 am to 7 pm. Before full buildup, frequency and service hours would be less with weekend service last to be added.

165 - Local route replacing the 65 in Beaverbrook. It would run every 30 minutes during peak periods only.

166 - New local route providing additional service in parts of south Kanata. It would operate weekdays only through Katimavik/Hazeldean and Glen Cairn, all day, every 15 minutes during peak periods and every 30-60 minutes during midday and evenings. Weekend service would be provided by the 161.

168 - Minor realignments are made in Kanata Lakes. Instead of a two-way loop, it would operate to Hazeldean Mall and turn around. Peak period frequency increased to collect those that use the 68 now.

169 - Changed into a local route along Terry Fox connecting Kanata North to Terry Fox Station and Centrum, extending into new areas north of Old Carp as they are built. Unlike most other routes, it would end at Terry Fox in both phases. It would operate every 30 minutes during peak periods with intermittent trips at other times of day, 7 days a week.

In Phase I, all local routes will end within Kanata (except 112), where transfers to 96 (and 93 at Eagleson) can be made. Some trips on the 96 will continue downtown, and all others end at Tunney's Pasture.

In Phase II, routes 151, 152, 153, 154, 157, 158, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166 and 168 will all operate to Bayshore for a direct LRT connection, joining at Fernbank, Hazeldean, Scotiabank Place, Terry Fox or Eagleson.

[MountainView]

Just something I noticed a few weeks ago but forgot to mention on here. Are the 'Smart Cards' the same thing as the Presto cards that OC Transpo plans on introducing? If so, in their advance travel planner, they already have the options for selecting "smart card issuing centres" and "smart card recharging sites" under the Landmarks section of the tabs. Currently there are no issuing centres that pop up when selected but there are three recharging sites: Coopsco La Cite Collegiale, International News, and PIVIK(U of O). Please excuse me if the smart cards are not the presto cards, as I've never heard of the smart cards before... if they are the presto cards, it's interesting that OC has already loaded some of the sites into the travel planner... perhaps this is by mistake? Anyways...just thought I would share what I saw!
Cheers!

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I'm not sure if I agree about widening the bridge, but I definitely agree about the 116. It was one of the hardest-hit routes of the September service cuts.

I think there needs to be a route like the 402 that runs 7 days/week, not just for Sens games. Route 402 goes directly from South Keys to Baseline via Hunt Club and Woodroofe.

The problem with Hunt Club bridge isn't so much the bridge as the approaches to the bridge. Bus only lanes from Antares to Prince of Wales eastbound, and Canadair to Riverside westbound, with bus priority signals, would largely alleviate the congestion problem from a transit perspective.

I have relocated this to a more appropriate location.

Given the fact that transit funding is not going to keep up with ridership growth, there will be no money for returning a cross-town bus route to the major transfer station at South Keys. Basically, from here on in, we will basically be only plugging holes in the transit dike. Only the most serious crowding problems will be addressed to the most minimal degree. If this continues for multiple years and ridership continues to grow, it will be routine for passengers to be passed by.

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have relocated this to a more appropriate location.

Given the fact that transit funding is not going to keep up with ridership growth, there will be no money for returning a cross-town bus route to the major transfer station at South Keys. Basically, from here on in, we will basically be only plugging holes in the transit dike. Only the most serious crowding problems will be addressed to the most minimal degree. If this continues for multiple years and ridership continues to grow, it will be routine for passengers to be passed by.

My only hope for fixing transit in Ottawa in the mid-term future is that people forget once light rail arrives that a large justification for it is operational savings, and that the operational savings that will in fact occur (an estimated $100 million a year in 2009 dollars, if memory serves) are reinvested in expanding, improving & renewing services elsewhere in the City.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

My only hope for fixing transit in Ottawa in the mid-term future is that people forget once light rail arrives that a large justification for it is operational savings, and that the operational savings that will in fact occur (an estimated $100 million a year in 2009 dollars, if memory serves) are reinvested in expanding, improving & renewing services elsewhere in the City.

I really don't believe that will happen, and I find $100 million per year almost inconceivable. This is just like Larry O'Brien's bluster that we will save 15 minutes per trip when the average time to Blair Road today from downtown might be 20 minutes. It was simply BS that was not based on facts. I have no doubt that there will be some savings but running a rail line is expensive. The trains are more expensive and the right of way is more expensive to maintain. The savings come from fewer operators.

I continue to be nervous about putting all our eggs in one basket. Only one rail line serving everybody except centretown residents. There was a massive failure of the C-Train this past week that left Calgary Transit in a real mess. Unlike our plan, Calgary runs multiple rail lines from downtown and still runs buses to the suburbs in areas not well served by the C-Train. We will be much more vulnerable as a result of rail failures than Calgary is and less able to cope with it. More people will be impacted by the failure of our one rail line and there will be fewer buses available to deal with the failure.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I really don't believe that will happen, and I find $100 million per year almost inconceivable. This is just like Larry O'Brien's bluster that we will save 15 minutes per trip when the average time to Blair Road today from downtown might be 20 minutes. It was simply BS that was not based on facts. I have no doubt that there will be some savings but running a rail line is expensive. The trains are more expensive and the right of way is more expensive to maintain. The savings come from fewer operators.

I continue to be nervous about putting all our eggs in one basket. Only one rail line serving everybody except centretown residents. There was a massive failure of the C-Train this past week that left Calgary Transit in a real mess. Unlike our plan, Calgary runs multiple rail lines from downtown and still runs buses to the suburbs in areas not well served by the C-Train. We will be much more vulnerable as a result of rail failures than Calgary is and less able to cope with it. More people will be impacted by the failure of our one rail line and there will be fewer buses available to deal with the failure.

In that case, it was high winds that impacted the system and not a direct failure (the LRT itself remained operational) but buildings that lost windows in wind gusts to 150 km/h and blocked the streets including 7th Avenue and could not operate through it (which is higher than usual for Calgary, but winds at or near hurricane force are not uncommon). Those kind of winds are extremely rare in Ottawa for a long period (i.e. longer than an extreme thunderstorm or tornado), barring some insane Great Lakes storm or a perfect-track hurricane which is expected to happen maybe once every 100 years or less. I am not aware ever of an occurance of hurricane-force winds in Ottawa apart from a brief severe thunderstorm.

[eternallyme]

Report on smaller buses, NOT recommended

I personally disagree. If a 30-foot model is otherwise identical to a 40-foot model that OC currently has (the only option would be the Orion VII NG) and placed in the fleet, the parts would be mostly interchangable, and the fuel savings would be worth it on low ridership routes. The best choice would be a heavy-duty, 30-foot, low-floor bus, probably hybrid as it would not be used much on the Transitway. Cutaways would be useless.

If a whole new model is introduced, then yes I agree, it would be a cost issue.