Halifax Stadium Discussion

[someone123]

I think Gorsebrook would be a good spot for a stadium. That area is underused and in the past was poorly developed.

It also makes a lot of sense of course for the universities to share facilities, given how close they are.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

Could Canada one day host the FIFA Men's World Cup?
www.tsn.ca/blogs/luke_wileman/?id=395306

It is nice to dream and even though I never say never, I seriously doubt that it will ever happen for two main reasons. 1) We are not corrupt like Qatar so we probably won't be bribing any FIFA officials to get the vote and 2) We currently have a real lack proper stadiums that could cost $$$BILLIONS to remedy (if you doubt that, look at what South Africa spent on new stadiums and what Brazil, Russia and Qatar are currently spending). The only FIFA World Cup ready stadiums we have are BC Place (when they add grass) and maybe the new stadium in Winnipeg if they expand it to 45,000. Rogers, Commonwealth and Olympic would have to under go major renovations. The United States, China, Australia, England and a host of other countries already have stadiums ready for the World Cup. Let's face it, we got the women's World Cup because no one else wanted it. On a scale of 1 to 100, the women's world cup ranks about a 10 in world events. The men's world cup is a 100+++. Still we can always dream on spending our $$$ BILLIONS for a Toronto Summer Olympics.

[HighVoltageRock]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

There was an interesting story in the allnovascotia.com. Councillor Sue Uteck is pushing for a joint DAL-SMU-HRM twin-pad arena at this location - http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax,+ns...lifax+County,+Nova+Scotia&gl=ca&t=h&z=19 between Gorsebrook Junior High School and the Atlantic Provinces Special Education Authority Building (http://www.apsea.ca/), which is at 5940 South Street.

If Councillor Uteck can convince the universities and HRM to build a joint twin pad arena then maybe she could convince them to build a joint DAL-SMU-HRM stadium in the same area but in the field to the south. (this idea wasn't in the allnovascotia.com story, it is just my own personal thought)

Isn't this an area where people in the surrounding area would scream bloody murder if someone whispers too loud? Not trying to be negative or just put ideas down, but if it is an area where they have noise issues (maybe not as bad as a whisper, but you get the idea), then I personally would really rather pretty much anywhere in the HRM... Then again, maybe I'm wrong about the noise issue?

[Trantor]

Originally Posted by Welkin

It is nice to dream and even though I never say never, I seriously doubt that it will ever happen for two main reasons. 1) We are not corrupt like Qatar so we probably won't be bribing any FIFA officials to get the vote and 2) We currently have a real lack proper stadiums that could cost $$$BILLIONS to remedy (if you doubt that, look at what South Africa spent on new stadiums and what Brazil, Russia and Qatar are currently spending). The only FIFA World Cup ready stadiums we have are BC Place (when they add grass) and maybe the new stadium in Winnipeg if they expand it to 45,000. Rogers, Commonwealth and Olympic would have to under go major renovations. The United States, China, Australia, England and a host of other countries already have stadiums ready for the World Cup. Let's face it, we got the women's World Cup because no one else wanted it. On a scale of 1 to 100, the women's world cup ranks about a 10 in world events. The men's world cup is a 100+++. Still we can always dream on spending our $$$ BILLIONS for a Toronto Summer Olympics.

the spending with stadiums is not THAT big... $250 million builds a 60 thousand people very good modern stadium.

most of the money Brazil is spending in the World Cup is not on the stadiums, but in renovations of public transport, hotels, etc, etc,

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by HighVoltageRock

Isn't this an area where people in the surrounding area would scream bloody murder if someone whispers too loud? Not trying to be negative or just put ideas down, but if it is an area where they have noise issues (maybe not as bad as a whisper, but you get the idea), then I personally would really rather pretty much anywhere in the HRM... Then again, maybe I'm wrong about the noise issue?

Although I understand the concern that anything in the Southend will be opposed, if you look at the location it is just to the north of the current SMU Stadium - http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax,+ns...lifax+County,+Nova+Scotia&gl=ca&t=h&z=17 . Except for a few homes along Inglis Street (which would likely have to be bought out) it is not really a residential area of detached homes (there are a few highrises in the area). I think the noise would create fewer problems in this area than the concerts on the Commons, which has more neighbouring residential units.

This seems like an ideal place for a stadium since it is close to SMU and Dalhousie. SMU might want to use their current stadium land for academic buildings and play soccer and football games just across Inglis Street at a joint SMU-DAL-HRM Stadium.

The topography seems to be perfect for a partially sunken stadium. Here is a Bing Maps bird's eye view - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf52yf9...sty=b&where1=Halifax%2C%20NS&form=LMLTCC

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Trantor

the spending with stadiums is not THAT big... $250 million builds a 60 thousand people very good modern stadium.

most of the money Brazil is spending in the World Cup is not on the stadiums, but in renovations of public transport, hotels, etc, etc,

Brazil dosen't have to spend much on stadiums, they already have lots of large-scale soccer infastructure in place.

Plus you need to have what, 8, 10 suitable stadiums in order to host? 250mil per stadium turns into billions very quickly.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Brazil dosen't have to spend much on stadiums, they already have lots of large-scale soccer infastructure in place.

Plus you need to have what, 8, 10 suitable stadiums in order to host? 250mil per stadium turns into billions very quickly.

South Africa spent $3.5 Billion
Brazil plans to spend over $5.2 billion
Qatar plans to spend $220 billion (they are basically rebuilding the country and will spend well over $5 billion on stadiums alone).
Russia plans to spend over $5.0 billion

How much would Canada spend to host a soccer tournament?

[cormiermax]

We're too cheap to host FIFA.

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

We're too cheap to host FIFA.

Yeah, which is funny because even 3rd world countries overrun with poverty host tournaments like this.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

Yeah, which is funny because even 3rd world countries overrun with poverty host tournaments like this.

Probably because they pour all their money into projects of this nature.

We can afford much more though... and with all this talk about EI, why don't they create construction projects based upon it?

All the the anti-spending on sports people (who ironically want to see more arts funding) are the root of this problem, the government can't justify it.

[c-way-dude]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

We can afford much more though... and with all this talk about EI, why don't they create construction projects based upon it?

There are advantages to hosting the FIFA World Cup compared to hosting the Summer Olympics.
The World Cup would be spread out across the country. The federal government could split the costs with participating provincial and local governments. There are fewer athletes and venues, which would make security easier. Stadiums like BC Place, Commonwealth, SkyDome, and Olympic Stadium would not require massive investments to bring them up to World Cup standards. New stadiums in Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa, and probably Regina are going to be built with many of the features that the World Cup would require. They are all also being built so that they can be expanded to host the Grey Cup, which capacity-wise is similar to what the World Cup requires for the opening round.
The problems that I see are that we have no real pro soccer league, and will likely not have one any time in the near future. Our men's national team is nowhere near good enough to compete in the tournament. We also have to compete with the U.S., Mexico, and possibly others who are willing to throw a lot of money into the project. I am also unsure if we have a stadium capable of hosting the final, although it might be possible to expand Olympic Stadium or Commonwealth Stadium.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

There are advantages to hosting the FIFA World Cup compared to hosting the Summer Olympics.
The World Cup would be spread out across the country. The federal government could split the costs with participating provincial and local governments. There are fewer athletes and venues, which would make security easier. Stadiums like BC Place, Commonwealth, SkyDome, and Olympic Stadium would not require massive investments to bring them up to World Cup standards. New stadiums in Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa, and probably Regina are going to be built with many of the features that the World Cup would require. They are all also being built so that they can be expanded to host the Grey Cup, which capacity-wise is similar to what the World Cup requires for the opening round.

Huh? The Women's World Cup perhaps, CFL-appropriate stadiums are miles away from what is needed to host the World Cup proper though.

Being a massive sparsely-populated country spread out over multiple time zones is a major drawback from having a World Cup here, speaking of. The 94 WC received a lot of criticism for the same reason and the States had much more suitable sports infastructure to work with than we do. It's not such a huge deal for the WWC because let's face it women's sports aren't exactly much of a draw, even then the only reason Canada is hosting is because literally nobody else wanted to though.

[c-way-dude]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Huh? The Women's World Cup perhaps, CFL-appropriate stadiums are miles away from what is needed to host the World Cup proper though.

Being a massive sparsely-populated country spread out over multiple time zones is a major drawback from having a World Cup here, speaking of. The 94 WC received a lot of criticism for the same reason and the States had much more suitable sports infastructure to work with than we do. It's not such a huge deal for the WWC because let's face it women's sports aren't exactly much of a draw, even then the only reason Canada is hosting is because literally nobody else wanted to though.

What features do opening round FIFA World Cup stadiums have that new stadiums in Winnipeg, Hamilton, and likely Regina won't have. Aside from being a little small in terms of capacity, these stadiums will be loaded with extras.
The budget for the stadium in Winnipeg is at $190 million for 33 422 seats (about $5386/seat).
While the official plan and budget will not be released until late September, speculation is the new Hamilton stadium will have a budget of $140 million for 22 500 seats (about $6222/seat).
The proposed open-air stadium in Regina has a budget of $278 million for 33 000 (about $8424/seat).
These stadiums will be small, but they will not be minor league.

[c-way-dude]

An interesting article about the architect and the new stadium in Ottawa.
www.canada.com/Sports/True+sports+controls+concept+stadium/6758836/story.html

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Welkin

It is nice to dream and even though I never say never, I seriously doubt that it will ever happen for two main reasons. 1) We are not corrupt like Qatar so we probably won't be bribing any FIFA officials to get the vote and 2) We currently have a real lack proper stadiums that could cost $$$BILLIONS to remedy (if you doubt that, look at what South Africa spent on new stadiums and what Brazil, Russia and Qatar are currently spending). The only FIFA World Cup ready stadiums we have are BC Place (when they add grass) and maybe the new stadium in Winnipeg if they expand it to 45,000. Rogers, Commonwealth and Olympic would have to under go major renovations. The United States, China, Australia, England and a host of other countries already have stadiums ready for the World Cup. Let's face it, we got the women's World Cup because no one else wanted it. On a scale of 1 to 100, the women's world cup ranks about a 10 in world events. The men's world cup is a 100+++. Still we can always dream on spending our $$$ BILLIONS for a Toronto Summer Olympics.

To play devil's advocate, the only reason Brazil is hosting the 2014 WC is because no other countries put forth finalized bids too.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

What features do opening round FIFA World Cup stadiums have that new stadiums in Winnipeg, Hamilton, and likely Regina won't have. Aside from being a little small in terms of capacity, these stadiums will be loaded with extras.
The budget for the stadium in Winnipeg is at $190 million for 33 422 seats (about $5386/seat).
While the official plan and budget will not be released until late September, speculation is the new Hamilton stadium will have a budget of $140 million for 22 500 seats (about $6222/seat).
The proposed open-air stadium in Regina has a budget of $278 million for 33 000 (about $8424/seat).
These stadiums will be small, but they will not be minor league.

I agree that these stadiums are not minor league. If anything they are a little overkill for the CFL. Something along the lines of Saputo Stadium or the new Houston Dynamo stadium ($100 million) is more in line to the economics of the CFL. However, if any of these are to be used as part of a mens World Cup bid, they will have to be dramatically expanded. For the 2018 World Cup, Russia is building 13 new stadiums and complete renovating another 3 large stadiums. Most of the new stadiums are in the 45,000 seat range with a few stadiums in the 60,000-90,000 seat range. I don't think we should have any concerns over Canada bidding for the Men's World Cup anytime soon. To bid for the cup takes too much money and much more passion for soccer than you will find in Canada.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

What features do opening round FIFA World Cup stadiums have that new stadiums in Winnipeg, Hamilton, and likely Regina won't have. Aside from being a little small in terms of capacity, these stadiums will be loaded with extras.
The budget for the stadium in Winnipeg is at $190 million for 33 422 seats (about $5386/seat).
While the official plan and budget will not be released until late September, speculation is the new Hamilton stadium will have a budget of $140 million for 22 500 seats (about $6222/seat).
The proposed open-air stadium in Regina has a budget of $278 million for 33 000 (about $8424/seat).
These stadiums will be small, but they will not be minor league.

'A little' small? A world cup needs anywhere from 10-14 stadiums with a capacity ranging from 35k to 70/80k. The stadia we have are more than just 'a little' small, most of them are nowhere close (none of them even touch the upper limits of the capacity needed to host a WC final) and most of the ones that are would need major upgrades since none of them were actually designed to host soccer. As someone mentioned the only real viable ready-to-go venues we have are BC Place and perhaps Winnipeg's new stadium as a minor venue for reduced-demand matches, and even then BC Place would have to make alterations to support a natural-grass pitch.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

To play devil's advocate, the only reason Brazil is hosting the 2014 WC is because no other countries put forth finalized bids too.

That was because only countries from South America were allowed to bid on the 2014 World Cup. FIFA used to rotate bids among their different confederations and only countries within those confederations could place a bid. FIFA decided to stop this practice after the 2014 World Cup.

Bids for the 2010 World Cup were limited only to members of CAF (Africa) and South Africa won. Bids for the 2014 World Cup were limited only to members of CONMEBOL (South America) and Brazil won. Initially, Brazil, Argentina and Columbia were going to submit bids for the 2014 Cup but CONMEBOL decided to have Brazil host the cup. With the change in FIFA rules, bids for the 2018 Cup could now come from North America, Asia, Europe and Oceania. No countries from Africa or South America could bid on the 2018 Cup. In 2018 there were four final bids and in 2022 there were five final bids.

[c-way-dude]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

'A little' small? A world cup needs anywhere from 10-14 stadiums with a capacity ranging from 35k to 70/80k. The stadia we have are more than just 'a little' small, most of them are nowhere close (none of them even touch the upper limits of the capacity needed to host a WC final) and most of the ones that are would need major upgrades since none of them were actually designed to host soccer. As someone mentioned the only real viable ready-to-go venues we have are BC Place and perhaps Winnipeg's new stadium as a minor venue for reduced-demand matches, and even then BC Place would have to make alterations to support a natural-grass pitch.

These stadiums are being designed to be expanded to 40-45k.
If I am not mistaken, the main stadium being built for the London Olympics is going to be comprised mostly of temporary seats.
When Atlanta built their stadium for the '96 Summer Olympics, it included about 30k temporary seats. What remains of that stadium is Turner Field, home of MLB's Atlanta Braves.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

These stadiums are being designed to be expanded to 40-45k.
If I am not mistaken, the main stadium being built for the London Olympics is going to be comprised mostly of temporary seats.
When Atlanta built their stadium for the '96 Summer Olympics, it included about 30k temporary seats. What remains of that stadium is Turner Field, home of MLB's Atlanta Braves.

I would imagine it all comes down to how the stadium is designed to look with the temporary seating. Expanding a 30,000 seat stadium into a 45,000 seat stadium so that it still looks like a really nice 45,000 seat stadium would be okay. Sticking up a few cheap temporary bleachers like we do for the Grey Cup would never work. Atlanta Olympic Stadium looked great for the Olympics and Atlanta spent tens of millions downsizing it for Turner Field after the Olympics.