Halifax Stadium Discussion

[hello again]

Hello Boys so this revenge thing for the NDP or Challenging politicians could you please stand in line with the Teachers Union. You know when you shut off debate counter to yours it goes to show your case is weak .

[hello again]

Should start to communicate with the Guy in New Glasgow who AJ Waling deemed the stadium expert of Atlantic Canada. The man was the guest of the Nigerian Government in 2014 as he explained why Abuja has the best inventory of sports facilities prior to bidding on any international sports festival .

[hello again]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Neither of the other two parties offered a viable alternative. The NDP were the govt pro-tem for most of the Rodney years and used their power to drive up spending while making the Cons look bad, not that it was hard to do that. While they have done a better job of administering the provincial finances than I expected, their priorities are totally screwed up when it does come to spending money and they have shown a surprising tendency to play pork-barrel politics. Sadly, they will not be ousted in the foreseeable future until the other two parties get new leaders and new blood.

Problem is for pro-stadium people is the threat to an NDP government is laughable to be polite. There is no groundswell of support for a stadium in HRM that has been illustrated so far. Reading back to the accounts of the Maritime Football Company's affords to bring the CFL to Halifax they actually had a front office leased for 6 months, A multimillionaire from Toronto and an even richer RB Cameron as a majority owner. T shirts supporting the future team had a huge run being sold or given away to the point of running out of supply. You don't have that in 2011-12 with this latest failed stadium effort.

[fenwick16]

This is the same pattern as before. Before it was username Shadow Warrior posting one comment after another - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=174940&page=191

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hello again

There is no groundswell of support for a stadium in HRM that has been illustrated so far. ... You don't have that in 2011-12 with this latest failed stadium effort.

I'm not sure why one would expect a groundswell of CFL/football-related support for a FIFA soccer bid that never even got off the ground.

It's also not really clear what "groundswell of support" even means, or why it would be necessary to justify a stadium. No regional groundswell of support was necessary for the Bedford ice rink despite the fact that HRM budgeted twice as much money for that project (~$40M) as they put up for the stadium ($20M).

The reality is that given the scope of the stadium project and the budgets that are being discussed it is a fairly routine sort of project. I suspect that most people who present it as a kind of HRM "grand projet" are simply trying to derail the debate. Instead of freaking out over an elaborate straw man stadium that nobody is proposing, the city should be looking at real questions like where the building should go and what sort of features it should have.

[fenwick16]

Montreal's Saputo Stadium renovation is proceeding and is expected to be completed this summer. Expansion from 13K to 20K seats will cost $23 million but part of that cost includes a partial roof over existing stands (7K seats will be completely covered). Once completed, the construction cost will be about $40 million for 20K seats ($17 million initial cost plus $23 million expansion cost).

I don't think a soccer specific stadium is what Halifax needs but the roof design is low cost and a similar design could be used for the upper tier of a two tier soccer/football design (upper tier covered, lower tier uncovered). Another feature of the Saputo design that would be good in a Halifax design is the space under the back of the roof that could be used for luxury/media boxes in the future (this is part of the roof support structure, so it serves an important structural purpose also).

(source: http://stadiaarcadia.blogspot.ca/2012/01/new-impact-stadium.html )


There is also a virtual image of the stadium online at this link - http://montrealimpact.io-media.com/

I would like to visit this stadium and get some of my own pictures later this summer or in the fall. Currently there are some construction photos by username DjeetMtl on Flickr - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeanphilippecaron/6970491364/in/set-72157629542333862/.


I wonder how HRM staff is proceeding with the Shannon Park acquisition for a future HRM stadium? That would be a huge step forward if it occurs.

[CorbeauNoir]

I wish they had a complete ring of seating but apparently there's some quirky bylaw requiring a clear field of view to the Big O's tower. The 3/4s-ring-plus-standalone-grandstand layout always looks really weird to me.

[HighVoltageRock]

Moncton has officially been chosen as one of the host cities for the Fifa women's cup:

http://pch.gc.ca/eng/1336149090414/1336149588255

the other cities are: Montréal, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Vancouver

[BravoZulu]

Originally Posted by HighVoltageRock

Moncton has officially been chosen as one of the host cities for the Fifa women's cup:

Congrats Moncton!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by BravoZulu

Congrats Moncton!

Thanks.

If Halifax had been able to construct a suitable stadium in time, I'm sure that it would have been a much more difficult fight.

Still, this might be the best overall result. Halifax needs a good quality stadium, but I think it would have been a huge mistake to rush ahead with construction of a stadium (any stadium) without a thorough consideration of the best possible location, the best possible size and the best possible quality of construction. You can't rush these things.

It's back to the drawing board for Halifax, but that might actually be a good thing. If you get your ducks in a row, you might still win this race (but not without a fight ).

[UPP]

Good luck Halifax with your battle to get a CFL-calibre stadium. I know we westerners would love to see a permanent team in the Maritimes and Halifax would seem to be the logical choice.

As a Reginan, I can tell you that it is very frustrating seeing a stadium plan get off the ground. We've been battling naysayers here for years to get a stadium to replace our 60 year old, crumbling park and we supposedly have the best fans in the league. Go figure.

Good luck again!

[fenwick16]

(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/sports/92870-cochrane-halifax-not-included-in-nation-building)

COCHRANE: Halifax not included in ‘nation-building’
May 4, 2012 - 6:44pm By CHRIS COCHRANE Sports Columnist

City has history of hosting success, deserves stadium


Team Canada's Christine Sinclair reacts to a call during Olympic soccer qualifying action in B.C. in January. (JONATHAN HAYWARD / The Canadian Press)
Photos


CHRIS COCHRANE

There was plenty of Canadian flag waving after Zimbabwe withdrew last year from the race to host the 2015 Women’s World Cup.

That left Canada as the official host for the prestigious tournament.

“It’s a big deal for our country,” Peter Montopoli, general secretary of the Canadian Soccer Association, said in an interview with CBC News last year. “It is a nation-building event.

“For the first time in our country there’s an event that will be held coast-to-coast — (in) five different time zones (and a) minimum of six different provinces — that each and every Canadian can touch and feel.”
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This story was in the Chronicle Herald. I agree that Halifax is missing out on being part of a nation building opportunity. Chris Cochrane must be an NDP supporter since he seems to ignore the fact that Premier Dexter didn't support a stadium from day 1 - Dexter's quote - "don't ask and we won't say no" - then for weeks the Premier pretended that he hadn't been sent a business plan.

In my opinion, Defence Minister Peter MacKay preferred a stadium at Shannon Park. Hopefully the city will move forward on its acquisition. The next time a major sports event comes along then hopefully the city will be ready with a site and design.

I think Halifax is also missing out on a chance of promoting itself on the national scene by ignoring the CFL. Although the CFL isn't at the same level as the NFL, it is a national league with a long established history. It is also the second most popular sports league in Canada, after the NHL.

[Welkin]

The City of Regina has decided to build a $278 million outdoor stadium for the Roughriders. The Province of Saskatchewan will be contributing $200 MILLION and the City of Regina will be making up the rest. All of the expected private business contributions did not materialize, although they can be expected to contribute in the form of naming rights, suites, season tickets.....

It is interesting to note that the Province of Nova Scotia decided to not contribute any funds at all, much less hundreds of millions, to Halifax's stadium plans. What a blown opportunity for Halifax and Nova Scotia.

http://www.leaderpost.com/business/JOHNSTONE+Regina+stadium+plan+sensible+doable/6570086/story.html

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Welkin

The Province of Saskatchewan will be contributing $200 MILLION and the City of Regina will be making up the rest. All of the expected private business contributions did not materialize, although they can be expected to contribute in the form of naming rights, suites, season tickets.....

It is interesting to note that the Province of Nova Scotia decided to not contribute any funds at all, much less hundreds of millions, to Halifax's stadium plans. What a blown opportunity for Halifax and Nova Scotia.

The province of BC also picked up the tab for the recent BC Place renovations. I do not know what the final breakdown was for the Moncton stadium but original ACOA funding was $7.5M to Moncton's $5M. The province was in for $6.5M and the university put in $3.5M. I cannot think of a single major public project in Halifax where the city picked up only 20% or so of the tab. The library for example was about 50% funded by the city. The federal funding through the stimulus program was pretty good but as far as I know the province kicked in nothing.

It's not unusual for projects in Halifax to get provincial funding that is below the norm for the rest of Canada, and of course there are projects like the stadium that simply never get off the ground because the interest is not there. It's too bad.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Welkin

The City of Regina has decided to build a $278 million outdoor stadium for the Roughriders. The Province of Saskatchewan will be contributing $200 MILLION and the City of Regina will be making up the rest. All of the expected private business contributions did not materialize, although they can be expected to contribute in the form of naming rights, suites, season tickets.....

It is interesting to note that the Province of Nova Scotia decided to not contribute any funds at all, much less hundreds of millions, to Halifax's stadium plans. What a blown opportunity for Halifax and Nova Scotia.

http://www.leaderpost.com/business/JOHNSTONE+Regina+stadium+plan+sensible+doable/6570086/story.html

At $278 million for what will likely be 35,000 seats that will be almost $8,000 per seat. That will be a very luxurious outdoor stadium.

Unfortunately, extravagant stadiums in Regina, Vancouver and Winnipeg will probably be used as fodder for the argument that a CFL suitable stadium will cost $200 million dollars in Halifax. Stadium opponents will use the extravagant stadiums as a cost estimate for a Halifax stadium.

[Welkin]

It amazes me how inexpensive they can build football stadiums down in the states (Univ. Akron, Univ. North Texas.....). Now it appears that Tulane University plans to build a 30,000 seat football stadium for $60 million. Here we spend $278 million in Regina (35,000 seats), $190 million in Winnipeg (35,000 seats), $150 million or so in Hamilton (23,000 seats). Even the $70 million stadium for Halifax was only 15,000 seats and lacked many amenities. Outside of maybe cheaper labor, why such a major difference in costs? Are these universities building good basic stadiums with some amenities while we think every new CFL stadium has to be a mini-palace? Even if we did build a $70 million CFL stadium, I think the rest of the league would look down their noses at our dink of a stadium. The league now seems to have a "go big or don't go at all" mentality. It begs the question "unless we plan to spend $150-$200 million on a new stadium, has the new, improved CFL passed Halifax by forever"?

NEW ORLEANS - Tulane Community Stadium (30,000)
Tulane University Announces Fundraising Campaign for Stadium

Just days after hiring Saints wide receivers coach Curtis Johnson as its new head football coach, Tulane University has announced “Home Field Advantage,” a $70 million fundraising campaign to build a new $60 million on-campus football stadium and provide $10 million in additional support for the Green Wave football program.

Tulane President Scott Cowen and members of the Board of Tulane have already raised $40 million in the private phase of a capital campaign and will begin the public phase for the balance of the support needed to build the proposed Tulane Community Stadium.

The new stadium will be located on Ben Weiner Road, between the Reily Student Recreation Center and the James W. Wilson Jr. Center -- less than a football field away from the original Tulane Stadium. The anticipated capacity is 30,000.

[]

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Welkin

It amazes me how inexpensive they can build football stadiums down in the states (Univ. Akron, Univ. North Texas.....). Now it appears that Tulane University plans to build a 30,000 seat football stadium for $60 million. Here we spend $278 million in Regina (35,000 seats), $190 million in Winnipeg (35,000 seats), $150 million or so in Hamilton (23,000 seats). Even the $70 million stadium for Halifax was only 15,000 seats and lacked many amenities. Outside of maybe cheaper labor, why such a major difference in costs? Are these universities building good basic stadiums with some amenities while we think every new CFL stadium has to be a mini-palace? Even if we did build a $70 million CFL stadium, I think the rest of the league would look down their noses at our dink of a stadium. The league now seems to have a "go big or don't go at all" mentality. It begs the question "unless we plan to spend $150-$200 million on a new stadium, has the new, improved CFL passed Halifax by forever"?

NEW ORLEANS - Tulane Community Stadium (30,000)
Tulane University Announces Fundraising Campaign for Stadium

Just days after hiring Saints wide receivers coach Curtis Johnson as its new head football coach, Tulane University has announced “Home Field Advantage,” a $70 million fundraising campaign to build a new $60 million on-campus football stadium and provide $10 million in additional support for the Green Wave football program.

Tulane President Scott Cowen and members of the Board of Tulane have already raised $40 million in the private phase of a capital campaign and will begin the public phase for the balance of the support needed to build the proposed Tulane Community Stadium.

The new stadium will be located on Ben Weiner Road, between the Reily Student Recreation Center and the James W. Wilson Jr. Center -- less than a football field away from the original Tulane Stadium. The anticipated capacity is 30,000.

[]

Well, I can't see how a university can have more revenue than the city. I blame poor leadership in combination with people who think we should spend money on other bullshit as the reason why we don't have a stadium.

Lets cut the funding to certain things for a year and get it done.

[c-way-dude]

Could Canada one day host the FIFA Men's World Cup?
www.tsn.ca/blogs/luke_wileman/?id=395306

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

Could Canada one day host the FIFA Men's World Cup?
www.tsn.ca/blogs/luke_wileman/?id=395306

Yes, I just hope that Halifax area politicians will recognize the importance of such event. Canada has hosted 1 Summer Olympics event and 2 Winter Olympics events, so the FIFA Men's Cup isn't far-fetched.

This is one more reason for Halifax to think in terms of a stadium that can be expanded to 40,000 plus. A 30,000 seat stadium won't be suitable for the FIFA Men's Cup.

[fenwick16]

There was an interesting story in the allnovascotia.com. Councillor Sue Uteck is pushing for a joint DAL-SMU-HRM twin-pad arena at this location - http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax,+ns...lifax+County,+Nova+Scotia&gl=ca&t=h&z=19 between Gorsebrook Junior High School and the Atlantic Provinces Special Education Authority Building (http://www.apsea.ca/), which is at 5940 South Street.

If Councillor Uteck can convince the universities and HRM to build a joint twin pad arena then maybe she could convince them to build a joint DAL-SMU-HRM stadium in the same area but in the field to the south. (this idea wasn't in the allnovascotia.com story, it is just my own personal thought)