New BC Political Discussion - POST BC Election 2017

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

Great post! I have had the same problem with the moderator Xelebes. No reason for suspension. It seems to me if you are right of center or not part of a federal Liberal or provincial N.D.P ideology. Your, thoughts are not towing the moderator lines!

Oh you're back (again). How sad.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Oh you're back (again). How sad.

Half the people who post are posting insults or hints of hidden agendas rather an an intelligent reply to the facts. And the other half provide intelligent replies I respect and may agree with.

Honestly what do you expect in a forum thread for politics. Your going to get people who support policies based on blind faith, racism, Robin Hood syndrome, and greed. Basically the headless cockroaches. It’s a shame that economics isn’t a required course in highschool. And your also going to get people who believe one policy is better than another long term for the economy and people. Thank god its the 2nd that tend to be the swing votes.

The switch from ndp to liberal to ndp has shown me that most people will vote based on a governments perceived peformance which is very surprising!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

Great post! I have had the same problem with the moderator Xelebes. No reason for suspension. It seems to me if you are right of center or not part of a federal Liberal or provincial N.D.P ideology. Your, thoughts are not towing the moderator lines!

We literally have a MAGA forum poster that hasn't experienced any suspension as far as I know. Try again.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

The switch from ndp to liberal to ndp has shown me that most people will vote based on a governments perceived peformance which is very surprising!

Not quite sure what you mean here. What else would people vote on? The BC Liberals tried to bring up the 90s bogeyman of the NDP, but that was literally 20 years ago.

I think people vote on policies the parties put forward, then punish those parties if they don't follow those policies, and/or corruption and other scandals (what really killed the BC Libs).

Then there's the economy as a whole. It's somewhat out of control of provincial governments, but they still get punished or rewarded based on economic fundamentals.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

We literally have a MAGA forum poster that hasn't experienced any suspension as far as I know. Try again.

This. Jebby passes the "don't be a douche" test just fine.

[misher]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Not quite sure what you mean here. What else would people vote on? The BC Liberals tried to bring up the 90s bogeyman of the NDP, but that was literally 20 years ago.

I think people vote on policies the parties put forward, then punish those parties if they don't follow those policies, and/or corruption and other scandals (what really killed the BC Libs).

Then there's the economy as a whole. It's somewhat out of control of provincial governments, but they still get punished or rewarded based on economic fundamentals.

Ah I meant its surprising that voters actually pay attention to the news instead of having this based on nationalism, whatever our equivalent of the gun lobby is (maybe the anti pipeline or marijuana lobby?), racism, etc.

[misher]

Does it scare anyone that in most announcements the NDP discusses helping people but doesn't talk about how it will benefit the economy? (probably because it doesn't or because they didn't take time to research it). The Liberals mentioned the economy in half their announcements. The Conservatives mention it in basically every announcement.

Like the recent rental increase fix. You'd think they'd do some research on its impact to the economy first. At the very least acknowledge its impact and say its worth doing anyway.

One of the three commitments made by BC NDP is that:

Good jobs and a sustainable economy
There will be thousands of good jobs with better wages in every corner of BC as we build a sustainable economy.

https://www.bcndp.ca/our-commitments

Yet there killing the housing market which is BC's bigger employer and source of good wages & jobs. They also killed the luxury car dealerships, pipeline (I know this was a popular decision but it would have created a lot of jobs too so I'm including it), and casinos. Remember each of these creates many jobs that employ locals, neighbors, etc.

Just kind of scary when every announcement doesn't mention a word about the economic impact. Sure they hired unions that supported the NDP for jobs. But I don't count that. Its honestly like there trying to gloss over the economic impacts of their policies, or have done their own research but don't want to release it.

If your going to argue against the economic impact please quote statistics, I'm open to being convinced, thanks.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by misher

Does it scare anyone that in most announcements the NDP discusses helping people but doesn't talk about how it will benefit the economy? (probably because it doesn't or because they didn't take time to research it). The Liberals mentioned the economy in half their announcements. The Conservatives mention it in basically every announcement.

Like the recent rental increase fix. You'd think they'd do some research on its impact to the economy first. At the very least acknowledge its impact and say its worth doing anyway.

One of the three commitments made by BC NDP is that:

https://www.bcndp.ca/our-commitments

Yet there killing the housing market which is BC's bigger employer and source of good wages & jobs. They also killed the luxury car dealerships, pipeline (I know this was a popular decision but it would have created a lot of jobs too so I'm including it), and casinos. Remember each of these creates many jobs that employ locals, neighbors, etc.

Just kind of scary when every announcement doesn't mention a word about the economic impact. Sure they hired unions that supported the NDP for jobs. But I don't count that. Its honestly like there trying to gloss over the economic impacts of their policies, or have done their own research but don't want to release it.

If your going to argue against the economic impact please quote statistics, I'm open to being convinced, thanks.

Oh the humanity! Won't somebody think of the poor luxury car dealers! is there no justice!

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Oh the humanity! Won't somebody think of the poor luxury car dealers! is there no justice!

Just because you sell something expensive doesn't mean your paid more. Whether its a Toyota dealership or a Lambo dealership a business is a business and profits are likely the same pre-tax. People have a right to run a business free of government profiteering.

Its like saying people who sell organic food are bad so we're putting a luxury tax on Whole Foods. Organic stores and regular grocery stores make around the same profit margins and their employees are both in the lower to middle class working their butts off.

People should have a right to make a living whether they are working in a lower or higher tier industry. Imagine if you work in a hand made furniture store and the government suddenly introduced a tax on all hand made furniture stores but not the made in China furniture stores and Ikea. Your an easy target, no one really cares about you, and no one cares that the government is trying to bankrupt you.

In addition, we want people shopping in BC. Instead, people will now buy their cars in the states or Alberta.

The best way to do this would have been to just increase ICBC premiums on luxury cars even more so no matter where people buy the car they pay more. Not to punish small business Owners and their employees that cater to a richer crowd.

Honestly I hate this perception that we should punish everyone who owns, sells, or works in an industry that makes something thats hard for the lower class to afford despite many of those same people employing the lower classes and paying the taxes that pay our social and welfare programs. Please see through your jealously and recognize that everyone in these industries is just working to make a buck.

Venezula went this way and kept taxing and taxing business Owners without consulting them. The government listened to the lower class and followed exactly what they wanted such as rent and price controls, higher taxes, social support, etc. You'll recognize that many of the programs the government put in, we're putting in! Yet we don't have a huge oil industry to take up the slack to pay for things so we won't last as long as Venezula! When the oil mine stopped in Veneula businesses failed, unemployment rose, and the economy failed.

In summary, businesses are essential to the economy. They are not big fat cats with big wallets stealing from us, they are like babies that need to be coddled and protected.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by misher

Does it scare anyone that in most announcements the NDP discusses helping people but doesn't talk about how it will benefit the economy? (probably because it doesn't or because they didn't take time to research it). The Liberals mentioned the economy in half their announcements. The Conservatives mention it in basically every announcement.

...

You seem to have a very black and white view where all economic decisions are good. How many times has it come up on here that the housing market is extremely distorted, which makes it really difficult for people to afford to live in Metro Vancouver - yet somehow that is good?

There's also money laundering (casinos) and destroying the environment (pipeline) - things that are generally considered to be bad, but because it means someone will make less money you somehow seem to think they're good.

A luxury tax is very similar to a consumption tax. I doubt you'll find many people on here crying because someone who wants to buy a luxury car now has to pay more for it.

Originally Posted by misher

Venezula went this way and kept taxing and taxing business Owners without consulting them. The government listened to the lower class and followed exactly what they wanted such as rent and price controls, higher taxes, social support, etc. You'll recognize that many of the programs the government put in, we're putting in! So businesses failed, unemployment rose, and the economy failed.

Venezuela is not even remotely close to what's happening here. Try to read more than the headlines sometimes. Wiki has a basic primer.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Sheba

A luxury tax is very similar to a consumption tax. I doubt you'll find many people on here crying because someone who wants to buy a luxury car now has to pay more for it.

Your focusing on the person purchasing the luxury car. What about the people selling the car who are now unemployed or bankrupt because sales are dead because of your tax that only raised an insignificant amount of money?

The receptionists they had to fire had families, as did the janitors, car lot boys, salesmen, etc. Those businesses contributed to our economy and labor market. Some people have worked in those businesses their whole lives.

What if the government targets your business next because they don't like your clientele? They've already cracked down on private health care, construction, rental, gambling, and real estate. Whose business is next? What will happen to our unemployment levels that were at their lowest ever? Where will the taxes come from that pay all the social programs?

Our economy is interconnected like a spider web and if you start breaking pieces off with no research based on the perceptions of people with little to no economic or business education you risk it all coming tumbling down.

I'm not against social programs, but I am very frightened that the NDP does no economic research before putting things in. We're in the 21st century, we have so much history and research to draw upon. We're supposed to make educated decisions, not just wildly flail about. I'm not saying no NDP, I'm saying intelligent NDP. Push them to do research to backup their measures showing we will benefit long-term from it as a whole. History has shown complete socialism does not work! That socialists need to consider the economy before putting measures in lest they kill it and need to retain some capitalism to keep us above water.

A nice quote below here:

Jim Flaherty warns of economic collapse under NDP
“For those few remaining small businesses the NDP does not propose to outright nationalize, the NDP policy resolutions would reduce them to wards of the state with stifling government control and bureaucratic red tape,” he said.

“Considered in their totality, the NDP proposals would fundamentally change Canada from a market-based democracy to one resembling a command-economy socialist state — like those that so spectacularly failed in the last century.”

He said the party would “erect an isolationist wall around Canada” if trade agreements were ripped up and the economy would further erode if resolutions to hike personal income and business taxes, eliminate tax credits for families, impose a tax on financial transactions were imposed.

https://ottawasun.com/2013/04/10/jim-fla...wcm/39f169b9-2b66-4dcc-aa98-7272de9d9440

A similar situation to here happened in Alberta in 2015. Remember that the Real Estate Industry in BC contributes more to the economy than the Oil industry in Alberta so what will happen to Real Estate may mirror the 2015 oil crash.

NDP to table largest deficit budget in Alberta history as provincial revenues plummet with oil prices
Non-renewable resource revenue was projected to fall from $8.9 billion to $3.6 billion this year. One economist called the situation 'very dire'

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/n...vincial-revenues-plummet-with-oil-prices

[Migrant_Coconut]

Except that our housing market is actually hurting other parts of the economy, startups and filmmakers for example. A cooldown means loss of real estate revenue, but allows other sectors to grow and make up the loss; wouldn't Alberta have been fine with a more diversified economy?

[logicbomb]

I have said it before, and I will once again repeat my sentiments. The majority of folks in this province are property owners. Making moves to cool down the housing market or cap rentals is just a bandaid fix in a feeble attempt at "addressing affordability." The NDP have essentially cost themselves the next election in one swift punch.

Corporations and the rich own all the cards. You cannot regulate them, nor go against the free market principles that are employed in every other region of the world. It's a boneheaded move that will ultimately result in businesses taking retaliatory measures at the government and renters. Someone brought up Venezula which is a perfect example of what goes wrong when you attempt to employ socialist principles.

Want to make a big splash at addressing affordability? Populate many smaller towns. The youth here have become ultra entitled. They want to live in the most desirable city in the world but also want the convenience of not paying up for it. There's plenty of land out there and telecommuting should really open up access to work in the middle of nowhere.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I have said it before, and I will once again repeat my sentiments. The majority of folks in this province are property owners. Making moves to cool down the housing market or cap rentals is just a bandaid fix in a feeble attempt at "addressing affordability." The NDP have essentially cost themselves the next election in one swift punch.

Corporations and the rich own all the cards. You cannot regulate them, nor go against the free market principles that are employed in every other region of the world. It's a boneheaded move that will ultimately result in businesses taking retaliatory measures at the government and renters. Someone brought up Venezula which is a perfect example of what goes wrong when you attempt to employ socialist principles.

Want to make a big splash at addressing affordability? Populate many smaller towns. The youth here have become ultra entitled. They want to live in the most desirable city in the world but also want the convenience of not paying up for it. There's plenty of land out there and telecommuting should really open up access to work in the middle of nowhere.

You seem to be operating under the odd assumption that Canadians should be forced to leave their homes to make way for foreign millionaires who have zero guaranteed right to be here. The new campaign financing rules will help choke off the money the rich have used to buy elections. And hopefully proportional representation will pass and make sure the minority party of wealthy businessmen never have complete unchallenged control over this province again.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You seem to be operating under the odd assumption that Canadians should be forced to leave their homes to make way for foreign millionaires who have zero guaranteed right to be here. The new campaign financing rules will help choke off the money the rich have used to buy elections. And hopefully proportional representation will pass and make sure the minority party of wealthy businessmen never have complete unchallenged control over this province again.

I disagree. Many of our houses are owned by locals and all the house and many condos are worth over a million. So millionaire locals everywhere. Millionaires are really not the minority anymore. Foreigners are the easy target but not the accurate one. Unchallenged control my ass that was the Liberal party not the Conservatives. We got a much higher minimum wage, a lot of social securit, welfare, a foreign buyer tax, and the lowest unemployment possible.

And I think the Canadians selling their homes to move somewhere they can buy a home cheaper elsewhere are laughing as they take that cheque to the bank. Only people upset are mostly the lazy and poor (and there offspring) who didn’t buy a home before the prices went up. But honestly they didn’t suffer much by being unable to buy something and rent is still cheap. If they want a cheap home there’s many good Canadian cities out there.

My coworkers save up so hard, eat meals from home, and didn’t spend a cent for years so they can buy their first condo. Follow their example.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by misher

In addition, we want people shopping in BC. Instead, people will now buy their cars in the states or Alberta.

You don't get it. They can collect taxes on cars as they're imported or registered. There's no advantage of buying outside of province due to a specific tax in BC.

When you buy a car in the US, you pay GST when you import it, then PST when you register it with ICBC. I haven't imported any luxury cars recently, but they probably collect the luxury tax this way now as well.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

In summary, businesses are essential to the economy. They are not big fat cats with big wallets stealing from us, they are like babies that need to be coddled and protected.

Thanks, I needed this laugh today.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

A similar situation to here happened in Alberta in 2015. Remember that the Real Estate Industry in BC contributes more to the economy than the Oil industry in Alberta so what will happen to Real Estate may mirror the 2015 oil crash.

Are you implying that the economic policies of the provincial government in Alberta caused a crash in global oil prices?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

You don't get it. They can collect taxes on cars as they're imported or registered. There's no advantage of buying outside of province due to a specific tax in BC.

When you buy a car in the US, you pay GST when you import it, then PST when you register it with ICBC. I haven't imported any luxury cars recently, but they probably collect the luxury tax this way now as well.

Luxury Tax just turns the PST into a 10% rate instead of 7% same as liquor now if you look at your booze bills. Ask me how I know for both.

I'm not sure what the policy is on used vehicles though, like if you import an older Ferrari but it's still over the minimum threshold.

From ICBC's site. Those 1-2% thresholds are ridiculous.

$55,000 to $55,999.99 7% PST plus 1% Luxury tax
$56,000 to $56,999.99 7% PST plus 2% Luxury tax
$57,000 to $124,999.99 7% PST plus 3% Luxury tax
$125,000 to $149,999.99 7% PST plus 8% Luxury tax (effective April 1, 2018)
$150,000 and over 7% PST plus 13% Luxury Tax (effective April 1, 2018)

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You seem to be operating under the odd assumption that Canadians should be forced to leave their homes to make way for foreign millionaires who have zero guaranteed right to be here. The new campaign financing rules will help choke off the money the rich have used to buy elections. And hopefully proportional representation will pass and make sure the minority party of wealthy businessmen never have complete unchallenged control over this province again.

It's part of a global trend. The City and region have become a really attractive destination to many across Canada and across the globe. We have 7.5 mil people on this planet. A temperate region with no extreme variability in weather. One that has mountains with lush forests nearby while also having shoreline within a close proximity. Not as dense and busy as many world class cities.

People should have seen this coming and either adapted or prepared an exit strategy from the onset of Expo 86....and certainly by Vancouver 2010. The sign were all there and immigration is certainly not new. The global population continues to increase and the global elite will go wherever most desirable.

I can damn well tell you that a PR system will not change the trends. Either pay up to live here or move. It's really simple.