Broadway Subway - Millennium Line Extension to Arbutus (II) | U/C

[Metro-One]

Considering the stage that the project is already at, 2027 is obtuse.

I could forgive / understand a push back from 2025 to 2026. Some delays do happen.

But there is a point where some accountability must be taken as well.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Want to talk about accountability? Start with the Eglinton Line in Toronto: it began pre-construction in freaking 2011 and now it doesn't even have an opening date any more.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Want to talk about accountability? Start with the Eglinton Line in Toronto: it began pre-construction in freaking 2011 and now it doesn't even have an opening date any more.

Well yes, that project has essentially become the poster child for miss management.

But just because a project somewhere else is worse doesn’t mean we shouldn’t demand better of our own.

[Migrant_Coconut]

And we'll probably get it; were this Metrolinx, sure, be upset, but TransLink's got a decent record of delivering on-budget and (usually) on-time.

[NewfBC]

Maybe they want to over estimate so they can be like the Liberals with the Canada Line and open it 'early'.

Ron.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And we'll probably get it; were this Metrolinx, sure, be upset, but TransLink's got a decent record of delivering on-budget and (usually) on-time.

TransLink aren't responsible for the Broadway project, (or the Langley line). And the Montreal REM transit line has been delayed just as much as Broadway. Ottawa had similar issues with their LRT. Sound Transit in Seattle started building the Federal Way Link in mid 2020, but a discovery after construction commenced that the soils could see a catastrophic failure in a seismic event has extended completion from 2024 to 2026, with an additional 500 yard bridge being built. The Valley Line LRT in Edmonton started constructionj in 2016 for a 2020 completion. After a series of construction delays, repairs and equipment replacements it opened in November 2023.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Well yes, that project has essentially become the poster child for miss management.

But just because a project somewhere else is worse doesn’t mean we shouldn’t demand better of our own.

How's that $US 84bn Tokyo to Nagoya maglev train coming on? Started in 2014 and still not complete?

[Metro-One]

When Canada starts building something as advanced and grand in scale as a maglev train capable of speeds up to 603 km/h, then we'll talk. Or I should say, it's much further along than Canada's!

Driving to work event I had last weekend on a grade separated highway that went directly through the mountains via 20+ sets of tunnels and countless viaducts was nice though. Not to mention the 12 KM long road and rail bridge I can see from my house connecting two major islands together (and its one of 3 such bridges!)

Anyways, there have been no sudden major geological problems or major issues (such as sink holes or jammed TBMs) on the Broadway subway (a relatively standard major project around the world), and the Edmonton LRT delay was 100% due to a self inflicted design flaw that had to be mitigated. Again, this is the most bizarre "what about" arguments to excuse a questionable over extended completion date.

Again, a delayed opening of 2026 sounds reasonable given the circumstances of this project, 2027 (again given we haven't had the major geotechnical or design flaw issues plaguing many other delayed projects) isn't reasonable.

[Migrant_Coconut]

We had a five-week concrete workers strike, which created a bunch of delays further down the pipeline. Japan has the “advantage” of having made strikes illegal; good luck doing the same in BC.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

We had a five-week concrete plant strike, which created a bunch of delays further down the pipeline. Japan has the “advantage” of having made strikes illegal; good luck doing the same in BC.

Again, delayed to 2026 understandable.

2027, no.

2 years delay because of a 5 week concrete strike? Please.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I won’t insult your intelligence by suggesting you believe it’s as simple as “five weeks on strike = five weeks of delay.”

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I won’t insult your intelligence by suggesting you believe it’s as simple as “five weeks on strike = five weeks of delay.”

Of course not, that’s why I said I’d understand a 2026 opening (a 52 week delay).

But a 104 week delay largely attributed to a 5 week concrete strike? Nope. If that were true I would expect a similar 2 year delay for all major projects using cement. Is every tower project current out on a two year delay?

I’m guessing some of this passiveness towards this delay is just because a preferred political party is at the helm for some. If the Liberals were in power I’m sure many would be signing a different tune. When the Evergreen Line was delayed for a shorter period for a far more serious and understandable problem (sink holes) I remember a lot more criticism and finger pointing on this forum.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Tunnels and stations require several orders of magnitude more concrete than a single tower; a better comparison would be Senakw, which started in ‘22 and is supposed to be under construction until 2030.

Apparently the road deck and “minimizing disruption” also added a few months’ delay per station, which is definitely not a problem when going through the mountains. The things we do to not cut n’ cover…

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I’m guessing some of this passiveness towards this delay is just because a preferred political party is at the helm for some. If the Liberals were in power I’m sure many would be signing a different tune. When the Evergreen Line was delayed for a shorter period for a far more serious and understandable problem (sink holes) I remember a lot more criticism and finger pointing on this forum.

Rather, because said forum more or less never thought they'd ever see this extension ever get built within their lifetimes... and now that it is, they're also complaining that it's not getting built fast enough.

If the Libs were in charge, we'd almost definitely still be waiting.

[BaddieB]

Cut and cover it to UBC baby. It would be cheaper to pay off the businesses and C&C from Arbutus to Alma than to tunnel and disturb them less.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

Cut and cover it to UBC baby. It would be cheaper to pay off the businesses and C&C from Arbutus to Alma than to tunnel and disturb them less.

There's another thread for the Arbutus to UBC leg. There's no route approved yet, but it will bend north to get to Jericho, before heading to UBC. You can bet that cut and cover would be far more disruptive and involve much more land acquisition and demolition to dig a trench. In Vancouver, it'll be another bored tunnel.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Having delays is one thing. Our schedule was already very long to begin with.

Not sure why you guys are making so many excuses. It's pathetic trying to build anything in this country, and we shouldn't be satisfied with it.

This.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Want to talk about accountability? Start with the Eglinton Line in Toronto: it began pre-construction in freaking 2011 and now it doesn't even have an opening date any more.

No. Let's start at home in Vancouver. Let them know it's unacceptable HERE. Ontario can handle their own.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Tunnels and stations require several orders of magnitude more concrete than a single tower; a better comparison would be Senakw, which started in ‘22 and is supposed to be under construction until 2030.

Apparently the road deck and “minimizing disruption” also added a few months’ delay per station, which is definitely not a problem when going through the mountains. The things we do to not cut n’ cover…



Rather, because said forum more or less never thought they'd ever see this extension ever get built within their lifetimes... and now that it is, they're also complaining that it's not getting built fast enough.

If the Libs were in charge, we'd almost definitely still be waiting.

Under the Libs we got the Canada Line, the Evergreen Line and the Highway 1 rapid bus. So far under the NDP we have gotten a 6km long extension that is now delayed by 2 years.

Oh, and we got a bridge and highway and rapid bus system cancelled with a weaker alternative that has yet to even go to tender (that will cost at least twice as much). Honestly, with inflation I’m scared to see what the new estimates for the new Massey Tunnel will be.

I was honestly hoping when the NDP were first elected, knowing their “pro” transit stance, we were going to get a real rail system to the valley and a revitalized island rail system, but it turned out they are the party with no ideas regarding transit infrastructure.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Under the Libs we got the Canada Line, the Evergreen Line and the Highway 1 rapid bus. So far under the NDP we have gotten a 6km long extension that is now delayed by 2 years.

Oh, and we got a bridge and highway and rapid bus system cancelled with a weaker alternative that has yet to even go to tender (that will cost at least twice as much). Honestly, with inflation I’m scared to see what the new estimates for the new Massey Tunnel will be.

I was honestly hoping when the NDP were first elected, knowing their “pro” transit stance, we were going to get a real rail system to the valley and a revitalized island rail system, but it turned out they are the party with no ideas regarding transit infrastructure.

Thinking rail for the valley or the reuse of the Island line would be good investments suggests you are out of touch with economic reality. If there isn't sufficient money to extend to UBC yet, which should at least cover its operating costs, throwing money at projects that would need perpetual subsidy would be dumb.

BC Transit and TransLink have both needed hundreds of millions of dollars of extra funding just to maintain the existiong services. Covid blew both transit revenue and provincial finances almost out of the water. On much of the Translink system we're only just seeing ridership return to 2019 levels (except on ther Westcoast Express). The Arbutus section of SkyTrain is being built - with far fewer disruptions to Broadway than happened on Cambie and despite delays caused by a variety of reasons already iterated in this thread.

Under the 'BC Liberals' we had the 'vote against transit' which clearly identified where their priorities lay.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Well yes, that project has essentially become the poster child for miss management.

But just because a project somewhere else is worse doesn’t mean we shouldn’t demand better of our own.

Thank you. Some people are loathe to criticize their favorite projects.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by madog222

From the May project update:

Updated project schedule.

Let's compare to the last update, which included a very reasonable six week delay from the previous.



Literally 2 years longer for all of the stations. We can build a skyscraper in this amount of time.

This update was about 16 months ago. They are going backwards!