Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[esquire]

Originally Posted by elly63

Paying for tickets, raising attendance, and helping to support the Argos

That too. (Maybe this was instigated by some Argos account managers? )

But seriously, could you imagine this happening just about anywhere else? Lakers fans showing up at Clippers games with angry banners and jeering the Clips? Jets fans showing up at Giants games protesting the big blue? Leafs fans going to Raptors games to scream at basketball fans?

It's ridiculous.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

I'd say it really depends on the market and location for CRLs and TIFs. Certainly a hockey mad market and an arena in the core of the core will be more likely than a softer hockey market and a development with significantly less potential area investment.

When I first heard about TIF being used to build public infrastructure in underdeveloped areas, I liked the concept but did not like how it redirected property taxes from the operational budget to the capital budget. Instead of redirecting property tax revenue and requiring the entire city to make up the shortfall, I felt that properties in a TIF zone should pay a levy or surcharge. As I see the repayment model as a first strike against TIF, seeing the TIF funds spent on private infrastructure further sours the taste in my mouth to the point where I can no longer handle it. However, I suppose there are times when you're not certain from where you next meal will come so it is best to eat what is put on your plate.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by esquire

I get the impression that this "rivalry" is kind of a one way street... on one hand you have TFC fans carrying anti Argo banners and getting ready to storm the barricades, and on the other Argo fans seem kind of bemused by all of this.

If I were an Argo fan I'd LOL at any losers going to a football game to protest the inequity of having to share a venue that they don't own.

Nonsense. A lot of it was triggered by Argos supporters starting a Twitter account with a number of followers coming up with daily comments stating they will turn BMO blue, work to get fieldturf installed, rename the stadium Argos field or some crap and a whole bunch of openly disrespectful stuff aimed at TFC fans. They even named the twitter account Blue Patch Boys (a direct instigation aimed at one of the TFC supporters groups, the Red Patch Boys) and troll using TFC hashtags, this is one of many disrespectful things going on from the Argos fans (don't even get me started on the stuff on their forums) that is pissing off people on the soccer side who couldn't give a rats a$$ about the Argos save for the quality of the pitch. Bunch of old fat ingrates, there will be a price paid for the disrespect. Argos and their fans are not rivals from this side, just dumb jerks showing us why nobody wants them, on the other hand there has been open comments from CFL leaders stating that MLS teams are rivals to CFL's growth, mentioning there's a direct relationship between MLS team growth and decline of CFL support in MLS markets. If the pitch is fine there would be no problem but there hasn't been a soccer pitch in existence that wasn't torn up by gridiron football. The stadium was partly built by public money, not largely. The majority of funds came from MLSE from money made from TFC, they are one of the highest spending teams on alcohol and team kit, not to mention they actually support their team by paying at the gate.

[Coldrsx]

'Desperation' driving success on dt arena.

http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/colum...-driving-success-on-downtown-arena-build

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

It won't ever happen - a bunch of keyboard warriors on both sides

See??

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Bunch of old fat ingrates, there will be a price paid for the disrespect.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

See??

Touche. The price paid will be the further decline and maybe even folding of the Argos (in real life), give it some time

[esquire]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Touche. The price paid will be the further decline and maybe even folding of the Argos (in real life), give it some time

I really do think you guys are the only city where people would actually celebrate a local sports team folding.

I guess once the Argos fold TFC will take its rightful place in the centre of the Toronto sports universe?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Nonsense. A lot of it was triggered by Argos supporters starting a Twitter account with a number of followers coming up with daily comments stating they will turn BMO blue, work to get fieldturf installed, rename the stadium Argos field or some crap and a whole bunch of openly disrespectful stuff aimed at TFC fans. They even named the twitter account Blue Patch Boys (a direct instigation aimed at one of the TFC supporters groups, the Red Patch Boys) and troll using TFC hashtags, this is one of many disrespectful things going on from the Argos fans (don't even get me started on the stuff on their forums) that is pissing off people on the soccer side who couldn't give a rats a$$ about the Argos save for the quality of the pitch. Bunch of old fat ingrates, there will be a price paid for the disrespect. Argos and their fans are not rivals from this side, just dumb jerks showing us why nobody wants them, .

Interesting given that most people say no one cares about the Argos, that their miniscule fan base is old and passive. Yet Argos Nation still swamps other sports" and teams' forums like a bunch of overbearing, domineering baddies... and can still make life miserable for noble TFC fans?

Whoda thunk it?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

The stadium was partly built by public money, not largely. The majority of funds came from MLSE from money made from TFC,.

I see

27M from the feds
8M from the province
10M from the city (plus free land worth 10M)
8M from MLSE

Seems largely public money to me.

BTW the city made it a condition of its contribution that the stadium be able to be configured for the CFL/Argos if and when this might be required.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

The twitter account referenced above with all 108 followers - https://twitter.com/ARGOSBMO1

I've got 3 times that many - and I'm a fucking nobody

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

The twitter account referenced above with all 108 followers - https://twitter.com/ARGOSBMO1

I've got 3 times that many - and I'm a fucking nobody

Thanks for the info! Maybe there are very few but they're all hyperactive!

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

The twitter account referenced above with all 108 followers - https://twitter.com/ARGOSBMO1

I've got 3 times that many - and I'm a fucking nobody

Lol.

We all know that there will be pushing and shoving and some fights and maybe a small-scale riot, but it will be 0.6% of fans on both sides involved and those might not even be fans, but people willing to take a side for the chance to disturb the peace.

It will be interesting to see how the media shakes this out and how Toronto itself reacts to this when it inevitably happens.

[esquire]

^ I'd take that as a sign that most Argo fans don't give a crap about this "dispute" and probably aren't even aware that there is one.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

Lol.

We all know that there will be pushing and shoving and some fights and maybe a small-scale riot, but it will be 0.6% of fans on both sides involved and those might not even be fans, but people willing to take a side for the chance to disturb the peace.

It will be interesting to see how the media shakes this out and how Toronto itself reacts to this when it inevitably happens.

I'd bet on zero violence and zero confrontations. It's just online blather.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

That too. (Maybe this was instigated by some Argos account managers? )

But seriously, could you imagine this happening just about anywhere else? Lakers fans showing up at Clippers games with angry banners and jeering the Clips? Jets fans showing up at Giants games protesting the big blue? Leafs fans going to Raptors games to scream at basketball fans?

It's ridiculous.

The antipathy of some Canadians for the CFL is just on a totally different scale from what I've ever seen anywhere else.

There are sports and other entertainment options (which is what pro sports are, after all) that I don't like at all but my reaction to them is indifference.

I suppose that some of the anti-CFL crowd would say the CFL is shoved down their throats and they get guilt-tripped for being bad Canadians because they don't follow the CFL, but seriously folks...

Except for Sask, can you honestly say that coverage and talk of the CFL is ubiquitous and shoved down people's throats?

REALLY?

If I look at TV ratings for the CFL there is probably less coverage and visibility of it relative to its true popularity.

If there is anything that gets shoved down our throats relative to its popularity in Canada* it's the NFL, which doesn't even have a team in this country.

*Not saying the NFL isn't popular in Canada, but its visibility is much much higher than its popularity might otherwise justify. Of course, this is all brand-building 101. And the NFL's current popularity in Canada is at least partly related to Canada being bombarded with NFL coverage and promotion way back when (not that long ago in fact) when not that many Canadians paid attention to it.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

A lot of it was triggered by Argos supporters starting a Twitter account with a number of followers coming up with daily comments stating they will turn BMO blue, work to get fieldturf installed, rename the stadium Argos field or some crap and a whole bunch of openly disrespectful stuff aimed at TFC fans.

Because if one of the moronic Argos fans out there didn't start this petty war, TFC does not have any moronic fans in their ranks that could just have easily started this handbag fight?

[cjones2451]

I get most TFC fans biggest concern is for the condition of the pitch, but their issue is with MLSE not the Argos. Wishing ill will against the Argos and the league is just petty. The Argos are a tenant of BMO, just like TFC.

It seems most people are proud of Canada and what it represents except when it comes to the CFL, it seems we are always comparing ourselves to the NFL, and if its not the "best" it must by bush league.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I'd take that as a sign that most Argo fans don't give a crap about this "dispute" and probably aren't even aware that there is one.

That is correct sir (said in my best Ed MacMahon voice)

[elly63]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Nonsense. A lot of it was triggered by Argos supporters starting a Twitter account with a number of followers coming up with daily comments stating they will turn BMO blue, work to get fieldturf installed, rename the stadium Argos field or some crap and a whole bunch of openly disrespectful stuff aimed at TFC fans. They even named the twitter account Blue Patch Boys (a direct instigation aimed at one of the TFC supporters groups, the Red Patch Boys) and troll using TFC hashtags, this is one of many disrespectful things going on from the Argos fans (don't even get me started on the stuff on their forums) that is pissing off people on the soccer side who couldn't give a rats a$$ about the Argos save for the quality of the pitch. Bunch of old fat ingrates, there will be a price paid for the disrespect. Argos and their fans are not rivals from this side, just dumb jerks showing us why nobody wants them, on the other hand there has been open comments from CFL leaders stating that MLS teams are rivals to CFL's growth, mentioning there's a direct relationship between MLS team growth and decline of CFL support in MLS markets. If the pitch is fine there would be no problem but there hasn't been a soccer pitch in existence that wasn't torn up by gridiron football. The stadium was partly built by public money, not largely. The majority of funds came from MLSE from money made from TFC, they are one of the highest spending teams on alcohol and team kit, not to mention they actually support their team by paying at the gate.

You and some of your RPB cohorts are hilarious, even regular TFC fans are embarassed by the shenanigans, lies and basically ill informed misinformation disseminated by some of these guys.

This BluePatchBoy guy on twitter is having a laugh and is hardly serious unlike some of your buddies at RPB. Love his comment about renaming one of the stands the Joe "King" Krol stand. Now that is comic gold for those who are able to recognize satire.

You guys are scared shitless of this (Argos moving to BMO) and I really don't know why. It's well beyond turf issues. Some of these RPB boys come on other forums with their nonsense and are humilated with facts that their bellicose misinformation can't counter and they can't seem to understand why regular TFC fans with half a brain don't support them.

Why you are so scared about a team that supposedly has no followers, that T.O is apathetic to and have fans that have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, I don't know.

It wasn't Argo fans that accosted a woman reporter with vulgar comments, you guys started the war and are freaking out now that you're losing every step of the way.

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Bunch of old fat ingrates, there will be a price paid for the disrespect.

WTF, are you ISIS or something

The quote above makes me think of a quote from molenshtain from RPB about some of the BS they post "people saying shit like this is why everyone hates us. "

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

You and some of your RPB cohorts are hilarious, even regular TFC fans are embarassed by the shenanigans, lies and basically ill informed misinformation disseminated by some of the these guys.

This BluePatchBoy guy on twitter is having a laugh and is hardly serious unlike some of your buddies at RPB.

You guys are scared shitless of this (Argos moving to BMO) and I really don't know why. It's well beyond turf issues. Some of these RPB boys come on other forums with their nonsense and are humilated with facts that their bellicose misinformation can't counter and they can't seem to understand why regular TFC fans with half a brain don't support them.

Why you are so scared about a team that supposedly has no followers, that T.O is apathetic to and have fans that have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, I don't know.

It wasn't Argo fans that accosted a woman reporter with vulgar comments, you guys started the war and are freaking out now that you're losing every step of the way.

The post above makes me think of a quote from molenshtain from RPB about some of the BS they post "people saying shit like this is why everyone hates us. "

If it is indeed true that some TFC fans feel threatened by a resurgence of the Argos, that's just plain weird.

From what I gather it does appear that the TFC and Argos fan bases (both actual and potential) are pretty mutually exclusive. (Which is interesting because there doesn't seem to be as clear cut a demarcation between soccer and football fans in places like Ottawa, Montreal or even stateside like Seattle.)

Anyway, even though I am not really impressed with what I have been seeing and hearing here and there from TFC fans, I still like that team's growth potential a lot.

I suspect they'll likely outgrow even the expanded BMO Field a lot sooner than most people think.