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  #4421  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 6:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ckkelley View Post
I think Metro Vancouver functions well actually. As stated in the article families are moving to Surrey and the like - that's what Surrey and other cheaper burbs are for. I'm still lost on this notion that people (anyone) has some kind of entitlement to live in Vancouver - downtown or otherwise. If you can't afford it, you move to where you can.

Further and realistically, I'm sure absolutely nothing could be done about this so-called problem. Developers are in business to make money not to engage in 'social justice'. Maybe this reality rocks people's worlds but not everyone can live where they want to.
I'm sure if I ever wanted to buy property in Van, it's way out of my range, but renting is quite doable where I'm at in Grandview. That's pretty much the only way I can afford to live where I do...
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  #4422  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 6:50 AM
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yes, the real estate price is too high, for a city like this. We r not an economic power house, who have that much to pay for housing. you can neglect the ppl who find it difficult to afford, but overall, this group is getting larger, landing's runnin gout.

what's the plan in 10 yrs, build ur garage into rental homes? and live the shit in a dog house?

or listen to the stupid announcement from the train stations every day, come on government, get the money from alberta, build high speed rail, ppl move to lanley.

if we call dog house in the backyard affordable housing, i seriously think this is the wrong direction.

what's alberta and the plains gona talk about, vancouver ppl live in garages, and rather feel they got some class......shit, we r not bitches, we r human beings.
     
     
  #4423  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 7:10 AM
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Perhaps one way to address the problem of non-family-friendly condos would be to make condo space more configurable.

In bigger cities, where tight, condo living is the norm, whole construction/renovation industries are supported by households who buy into developments with this in mind, reconfiguring living space to meet their needs.

Say for example one tower of the Woodwards building was for moderate-priced market housing. The units could be designed modularly or in such a way that they could be easily reconfigured for single, family, work-live, etc purposes. The family might have tiny rooms, but they are rooms nonetheless. The developer could even give a choice to people that pre-buy on what configuration they want.
     
     
  #4424  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 7:18 AM
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the thing is, this city got a huge farm land in the middle between populated areas, so u got a weird thing is that ppl live by the farm lands, or around it. and then there's no development plan so lands gone. so instead of having small living space liek they do in larger cities, we live small around farm lands...(the huge area in richmond and delta) why dont they build some condos on small farm lands, and turn some small farm lands into condo area, ease up the tention else where. build a fast train to connect these condo areas, and u move the ppl there...i dont know, just a ideal suggestion

i dont mind living on a farm in central richmond, at least not as remotely far as south surrey...
     
     
  #4425  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 7:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Hed Kandi View Post
Families are being priced out of Vancouver, study shows
Don Cayo

Sun

Wednesday, September, 23, 2009


Vancouver is growing steadily, yet the number of children, especially in east Vancouver, is plunging -- one school has lost half its enrolment -- because families can't afford to live here.

While the city continues to offer plenty of choice for singles or couples to rent or to own, families find themselves ever-harder pressed to find a place to live, especially at an affordable price.

This is the nub of the findings in the first of what's evolving into a fascinating series of Vancouver-focused research reports from BTAworks, a new research arm of Bing Thom Architects.

The first of these was a detailed look at the city's condominiums and who lives in them. It found condos to be underrated as a source of rental housing: The majority are neither left empty by speculators and absentee owners, as the urban myth often has it, nor occupied by their owners. Rather, they are let out to tenants.

But condo rentals are heavily tilted towards studio and one-bedroom units, which aren't suitable for families.

A second report, not yet published, shows sharp declines in east Van elementary school enrolments. The city-wide loss is more than 3,500 over five years. For the 20 per cent of worst-off schools it averages 20 per cent, and it's almost 50 per cent for one, the small Sir William Macdonald Community School.

Private schools have siphoned off some of these students, said Andy Yan, the planner who heads the BTAworks research projects.

And some are no doubt being sent by their parents to what are perceived to be better schools, which are still showing modest increases in enrolment, on the west side of the city.

But, as the condo study shows, "Families with lower incomes are simply being squeezed out."

Yan noted that census figures from 2001 and 2006 show that two-thirds of the population increase in Vancouver was accounted for by people over 55.

And that jibes with building statistics that show a major increase in housing that's suitable for seniors and young singles and couples, but not families.

Eighty per cent of downtown's 27,000 condos have been built since 1990, Yan said, and fewer than 40 per cent of them have more than one bedroom. Most are owned by people who don't live in them, and most of these owners live elsewhere in B.C.

Typically, owner-occupied units are worth $30,000-$40,000 more -- in other words, they're larger -- than rented units.

And, "A family with one child earning the median income of $75,000 a year would have difficulty in finding and paying for a condo bigger than one bedroom, even if condo prices were to fall 25 per cent below 2008 assessment levels."

The upshot is that many families flee to more affordable suburban cities like Surrey. And, said Yan's boss Michael Heeney, a partner in the Bing Thom firm, some -- mostly skilled urban professionals who can work wherever they want -- leave the region and Canada for places like Chicago or San Francisco.

The reason for the imbalance in the impact of Vancouver's lopsided growth pattern on east-side and west-side schools isn't fully explained by the figures. But Yan speculates it may be because the west side is a magnet for high-income people who, whether they have children or not, are less likely to be daunted by high housing costs.

"If Vancouverism 1.0 is embodied by tall, skinny towers and one-bedroom, investor-driven condominium projects for downtown Vancouver, then Vancouverism 2.0 needs to redress this imbalance," he said.

What's needed are creative ways to provide more affordable, family-oriented housing.

To that end, Heeney is floating the idea of a major policy change at city hall to foster the development of larger laneway housing units that would be suitable -- and affordable -- for families.

As it stands, the city will approve a maximum unit size of 750 square feet for laneway homes on 50-foot lots, and 500 square feet on the much more common 33-foot lots. In other words, more homes for singles, couples and seniors.

"We do not actually need more of this kind of housing," Heeney said.

"What we do need are rental units with two or more bedrooms that can be occupied by young families."

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
A fantastic read. Although, I'm not sure what CAN be done to change things. It's unfortunate that we're at this point, where many young families are moving out of Vancouver

How can the city change this?
     
     
  #4426  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 7:32 AM
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I wouldn't touch the the ALR it was created for a reason. And because of that reason we have been forced to stop urban sprawl. Which I think in the long run is better.

Do people choose to not buy a house in Vancouver because they can't afford it or because they can but they would rather a bigger property. If it is the property thing there is nothing we can do about it.

Now while I think cost is probably the biggest factor I do believe that the idea of a detached home with a front and backyard is probaby what people want. Which I think is the second biggsest factor as to why families move out to the suburbs. They want that white picket fence.

One thing I think the City of Vancouver need to seriously entertain is the idea of a row house and make the properties smaller. More dwelling units ber hectare. But have them with a front and back yard. not as big as today but something at least.

Problem is more people will buy them up and move in and eventually the price of housing will go up again to being not being affordable. And sadly nothing can be done about it. If there is a demand to live here the price of living will go up. Sadly we live in an area that is confined physically.
     
     
  #4427  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 7:36 AM
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Originally Posted by vansky View Post
the thing is, this city got a huge farm land in the middle between populated areas, so u got a weird thing is that ppl live by the farm lands, or around it. and then there's no development plan so lands gone. so instead of having small living space liek they do in larger cities, we live small around farm lands...(the huge area in richmond and delta) why dont they build some condos on small farm lands, and turn some small farm lands into condo area, ease up the tention else where. build a fast train to connect these condo areas, and u move the ppl there...i dont know, just a ideal suggestion

i dont mind living on a farm in central richmond, at least not as remotely far as south surrey...
There's a lot more to it, than just building condos on farmland. In Richmond, I think No. 3 Road can still be much more densified, than what it is right now. They expect 140,000 people to be living in downtown Richmond in the future, hopefully, the city of Richmond will concentrate on other areas to densify as well, and not just along No. 3 road.
     
     
  #4428  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 7:36 AM
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not enough 2 bedrooms, that is interesting...one way is to move the kid into the living room or kitchen...as done in larger cities...
     
     
  #4429  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 7:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Vancity View Post
There's a lot more to it, than just building condos on farmland. In Richmond, I think No. 3 Road can still be much more densified, than what it is right now. They expect 140,000 people to be living in downtown Richmond in the future, hopefully, the city of Richmond will concentrate on other areas to densify as well, and not just along No. 3 road.
the whole downtown core of richmodn got planes flying over them, and yvr's expansion plan says we want more. for some ppl who want quietness, u can't get any new ones these days
     
     
  #4430  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 8:05 AM
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In the case of family moving out of Vancouver, we should not compare ourselves with other mega cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong or New York City. In those places, they literally have no single-detached houses. They have condos and apartments only. In our case, we still got a lot of land to develop and it's only natural that families will move to suburb like every other cities outside of those mega cities. Families don't generally want condos if they can avoid it, but will live in a condo if that's their only choice.
     
     
  #4431  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by vansky View Post
yes, the real estate price is too high, for a city like this. We r not an economic power house, who have that much to pay for housing. you can neglect the ppl who find it difficult to afford, but overall, this group is getting larger, landing's runnin gout.

what's the plan in 10 yrs, build ur garage into rental homes? and live the shit in a dog house?

or listen to the stupid announcement from the train stations every day, come on government, get the money from alberta, build high speed rail, ppl move to lanley.

if we call dog house in the backyard affordable housing, i seriously think this is the wrong direction.

what's alberta and the plains gona talk about, vancouver ppl live in garages, and rather feel they got some class......shit, we r not bitches, we r human beings.
Engrish prease.
     
     
  #4432  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 6:11 PM
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Olympic panels on the roof of The Bay - looks like luge and bobsled...
- looks like they will be assembled to form vertical panels between The Bay's corinthian columns.
Pic by me today.



You can also see cranes next to The Bay - probably for a structure to support the panels?


Last edited by officedweller; Sep 24, 2009 at 6:25 PM.
     
     
  #4433  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NetMapel View Post
In the case of family moving out of Vancouver, we should not compare ourselves with other mega cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong or New York City. In those places, they literally have no single-detached houses. They have condos and apartments only. In our case, we still got a lot of land to develop and it's only natural that families will move to suburb like every other cities outside of those mega cities. Families don't generally want condos if they can avoid it, but will live in a condo if that's their only choice.
I visited a friend's parent's apartment on the upper west side of Manhatten and saw where she grew up. She and her brother had their own rooms, the living room and kitchen were all quite spacious. The high ceilings also made it very liveable.

Now I realise that's quite an expensive area but still it made me wonder. The skinny tower format in Vancouver is great for letting sunlight on to the street but the drawback is the lack of large units with spacious floor plans. I wonder if that would help give families the option of living in an urban setting.
     
     
  #4434  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 7:34 PM
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^ Thing is the price of something like that in Vancouver would be too much for the average family to buy into.

Besides I wonder if it isn't so much the size or lack of bedrooms. Which will be a factor depending on how big of a family they want. But that people still in some way want to live the white picket fence dream.

So even if as husband and wife were planning to have only one kid and could afford a 2 bedroom condo in Vancouver. They still wouldn't buy because they want that lawn and fence.
     
     
  #4435  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 7:47 PM
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re: families and vancouver

i am lucky enough to be able to afford to live in vancouver, have a growing family, and own a house. However, i feel that I'm being ripped off for paying stupid prices and taxes.

we have recently sold our house and are now determining our next step. Doing what is best for the family may not be staying in Metro Vancouver. We are seriously thinking about moving to the Okanagan.

already, I have noticed the once trickle of friends and peers moving to the Okanagan has turn into a torrent. There are jobs, 2 extra months of summer, winters are less wet and living is cheaper.
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  #4436  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 8:19 PM
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Ya but temperature swings are more dramatic.
     
     
  #4437  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 9:28 PM
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. . . . and, relatively speaking, the Okanagan might have natural beauty to spare, but it's a cultural wasteland - defined narrowly as a lack of access to good restaurants, theatres, cultural/community resources, internationally significant events and ethnically/culturally distinct neighborhoods. Vancouver has this in spades. Of course, if you're comparing the Okanagan to Metro Vancouver (ie. Surrey, Langley, Coquitlam, etc.), the cultural differences would be rather moot. I'd take the Okanagan over any of those latter three cities any day.

I'm all for the laneway housing initiative. First, it's optional, so people can keep those picket fences if they want to. Nor does it mean building "dog-houses", as professor Vansky has so eloquently put it. These certainly could be as spacious or much moreso than your average 1 or 2-bedroom condo; would likely provide at least some access to green space (a little piece of that picket fence/postage stamp yard that people seem to want so badly); and would certainly be built according to code. In addition, they would increase the city's property tax revenue efficiency, thus perhaps (at some point in the future) allowing for moderation in property tax rates.
     
     
  #4438  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 4:19 AM
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These stories about families leaving Vancouver are no different then the stories about New York 25yrs ago. It's pretty obvious to me that since people are still buying then it's not unaffordable, it's just unaffordable to some. When people can't afford it anymore, then people will stop buying and prices will come down, if that doesn't happen it's because it is affordable.

It's kind of like the local saying about Granville Island, no one goes there anymore it's too busy.
     
     
  #4439  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 4:54 AM
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we live really spatious comapre to new york or tokyo, but our limited land mass got our new residence smaller and smaller. with this trend, size here is really gona be a luxury in the future.
     
     
  #4440  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 5:16 AM
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It's also a little ironic for that article to come up *now*, you know, with real estate prices being down from what they were, and this whole economic recession you might have heard of. There could be other reasons why people are moving away, like, oh, I don't know... lost their job? And yes, I agree with jlousa, the market will itself decide what is too expensive, as it does for everything.

Downtown probably isn't the best place to raise kids, anyways. I wouldn't. Luckily in Vancouver we have a lot of options that don't include the downtown core.

And I will probably make that transition myself, when I am no longer one of those "young urban professionals" and become bogged down with kids
     
     
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