ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[Pemgin]

I don't understand the "cheesy" sentiment. You have to work with what you've got, and these buildings are what's there. And you have to start somewhere. Just filling the existing buildings with active uses will be a game changer.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Historic is not cheesy. Cities like Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago all have areas similar to this within very close proximity to downtown. These buildings 1) already exist in Atlanta, 2) have a higher concentration of retail probably compared to anywhere else in metro Atlanta, and 3) will continue to be supported with concentrated density around this area.

Not to be a Negative Nancy because I really want to see this area develop, but if they try and bring any significant amount of retail before there is more people living downtown it will fail miserably - just my $0.02.

Furthermore, to add to the debate. Where is the density? Downtown Atlanta is the equivalent of our Manhattan not Chelsea.

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Furthermore, to add to the debate. Where is the density? Downtown Atlanta is the equivalent of our Manhattan not Chelsea.

Uhh Chelsea is in Manhattan. You can have different parts/vibes in the city very close together. I think the variety is nice.

[jsvh]

More residents / population density is an important part of the success of this project and downtown as a whole but that is happening too. If you notice there are "lofts" on the upper floors in some of those renders. Plus I bet many of the larger buildings will end up being mostly residential like this already underway project in South Downtown: South downtown Atlanta residential conversion to be housing for students, young professionals

Then of course you will have residential high-rises as part of the Underground and Gulch redevelopments as well.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

Uhh Chelsea is in Manhattan. You can have different parts/vibes in the city very close together. I think the variety is nice.

I don't need to be schooled on NYC, I am up there every month for work. I meant Downtown Atlanta should be our Midtown Manhattan.

[L41A]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

More details to come in the ABC tomorrow regarding Newport's downtown development, supposedly to include scope and timing. Looks exactly like the type of urban environment people are looking to live in and what feels like has been missing in Atlanta.

I remember the area being much more active before 2000. I remember when Kesslers and Green's were open in the 1990s along with Rich's. They used to so much more retail in the area back then. Some of the pictures are reminiscent. Hopefully, it springs back and beyond.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by jsvh

More residents / population density is an important part of the success of this project and downtown as a whole but that is happening too. If you notice there are "lofts" on the upper floors in some of those renders. Plus I bet many of the larger buildings will end up being mostly residential like this already underway project in South Downtown: South downtown Atlanta residential conversion to be housing for students, young professionals

Then of course you will have residential high-rises as part of the Underground and Gulch redevelopments as well.

Again not to be Negative Nancy, but Midtown has substantially more residential and doesn't seem to have the capacity to support retail. What makes you think Downtown is different?

It is my opinion the only type of retail Downtown can support today and for the foreseeable future is destination retail. Tourists and people living OTP will make the economics work. Without going into detail, the Gulch development is really the most significant/game changer for Downtown.

[A-town]

I agree the Gulch is the catalyst need the transform downtown. As was Atlantic Station for West Midtown.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Again not to be Negative Nancy, but Midtown has substantially more residential and doesn't seem to have the capacity to support retail. What makes you think Downtown is different?

It is my opinion the only type of retail Downtown can support today and for the foreseeable future is destination retail. Tourists and people living OTP will make the economics work. Without going into detail, the Gulch development is really the most significant/game changer for Downtown.

Midtown is still filling in but I think that is a pretty decent level of retail. I mean it has multiple grocery stores and most all the retail spaces are filled in with something. It's retail seen is certainly in better shape that a lot of suburban retail malls / strip malls.

I think people need to give up on this hope street after street filled with clothing stores and other traditional retail. Retail is shifting online.

I think the vision Newport has for South Downtown is perfectly sustainable. Some scattered restaurants, coffee shops, and specialty retail like bike shops that will serve mostly local residents, but yeah, the visitors will help too. Certainly a better bet than an Old Navy in a mall in the suburbs.

Edit: And while I am excited about "the Gulch" right now I think Newport's South Downtown and probably WRS' Underground are much better for downtown. But we will see what exactly they end up proposing. If it is just like "the Battery" where it is a standard Fuqua one street of retail surrounded by parking decks and a few apartments, then meh, probably better waiting for the next proposal. But if they do awesome added walk-able street grid with lots of street level and vertical 24/7 uses that ties in well with transportation alternatives then that is more beneficial.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by SAV

Those downtown pics remind me of A small Ga city downtown. It looks like downtown Decatur or Savannah. Kinda cheesey for a city Atlantas size but I guess it's better than what's there now

Interesting- I could see these looking more like the Greenwhich Village but "cheesy"?

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Again not to be Negative Nancy, but Midtown has substantially more residential and doesn't seem to have the capacity to support retail. What makes you think Downtown is different?

It is my opinion the only type of retail Downtown can support today and for the foreseeable future is destination retail. Tourists and people living OTP will make the economics work. Without going into detail, the Gulch development is really the most significant/game changer for Downtown.

Midtown's caught in a conundrum of building retail spaces at too high of a cost all-the-while the retail market has been dramatically challenged with online sales. Retail isn't going away but the concept of the "Midtown Mile" was the death-knell for Peachtree retail in Midtown- it was touristy/gimmicky and failed to address the retail/services the neighborhood's residences actually needed. The timing of it all just ensured the current status we have today.

The substantial differentiator here is these are existing buildings with character/patina that most retail/shopping destinations lack. If they can keep the rents down and tailor the tenant mix to the current and up-coming residential growth it can be done. They're not trying to redevelop this overnight but taking slow, calculated steps at bringing back a neighborhood vibe- let's just hope they can keep the rising arts district organizations alive as well.

[pica]

Originally Posted by SAV

Those downtown pics remind me of A small Ga city downtown. It looks like downtown Decatur or Savannah. Kinda cheesey for a city Atlantas size but I guess it's better than what's there now

Reminds me more of Georgetown in D.C.

I don't understand the obsession with density; these are screenshots of dense urban retail. Just because they're not proposing a big phallic skyscraper doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It seems obvious that they see this as a complementary development to the large amount of residential units being added at Underground.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by pica

Reminds me more of Georgetown in D.C.

I don't understand the obsession with density; these are screenshots of dense urban retail. Just because they're not proposing a big phallic skyscraper doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It seems obvious that they see this as a complementary development to the large amount of residential units being added at Underground.

Don't get fooled and think this is not dense. Most of the densest cities in the world have few buildings over ~5 stories tall. This will be dense because it doesn't waste space on large setbacks and parking lots.

This is the style of neighborhood Atlanta sorely needs. Not more skyscraper-in-a-park(ing lot) style developments.

[Libertarian]

Good comments here re the area of Five Points. The area will hopefully have enough mass to become a draw for Atlanta - especially Southside - residents wanting to Uber in or catch Marta to Five Points and enjoy a walking-around evening or weekend, sort of like the Forum in Peachtree Corners times 10, but with less retail and more diversionary and mixed-use options. Southside could really benefit from the proximity and vice versa. Lots of Georgia State students could get part time jobs!

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by pica

Reminds me more of Georgetown in D.C.

I don't understand the obsession with density; these are screenshots of dense urban retail. Just because they're not proposing a big phallic skyscraper doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It seems obvious that they see this as a complementary development to the large amount of residential units being added at Underground.

Those pictures may look like Georgetown, but Newport's development in Downtown will never be like Georgetown. Why? Economics. Georgetown is one of the wealthiest areas in the country and has an average family income of $150K and median house cost $800K.

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by SAV

Those downtown pics remind me of A small Ga city downtown. It looks like downtown Decatur or Savannah. Kinda cheesey for a city Atlantas size but I guess it's better than what's there now

What an odd statement. Like a big city is not supposed to be human scaled. In fact most big cities do have low-rise historic districts with tons of character that are usually thriving and this big city needs a whole lot more of this kind of human-scaled development.

As far the viability of this project, lets not forget that downtown is the epicenter of a tourist industry that attracts some 40 million visitors annually. If they build it so that it appeals to residents first as well as tourists, this will be a game changer for downtown.

[Atlanta3000]

New Pics of Underground Look Really Promising

Take a look at more details on the project here:
http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/4a8e8b_1207736fb1c7402cad43d8196fc8450e.pdf

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

New Pics of Underground Look Really Promising

None of these are new. They're just cropped and put on a flyer.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Those pictures may look like Georgetown, but Newport's development in Downtown will never be like Georgetown. Why? Economics. Georgetown is one of the wealthiest areas in the country and has an average family income of $150K and median house cost $800K.

Can we get some more details on how you think this area won't be like these renders? If you are implying this project will somehow be a "failure" I want to be able to revisit this in a few years and evaluate because I think this is the best project in the city right now.

[MdtwnATL]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

I don't need to be schooled on NYC, I am up there every month for work. I meant Downtown Atlanta should be our Midtown Manhattan.

Hmm I actually think Downtown Manhattan should be Downtown Atlanta, and Midtown Manhattan should be Midtown Atlanta. Both Midtown's are where the arts and "culture" are.