Halifax Stadium Discussion - Page 204

Josh M · #**4061** Posted **Nov 27, 2011, 11:46 PM**

It's a pretty cheap looking stadium, but atleast there is some room for expansion and it's bigger than 10,000 seats

Keith P. · #**4062** Posted **Nov 27, 2011, 11:55 PM**

How is that $60 million? I think the concept is not bad but I cannot see how it gets that expensive.

fenwick16 · #**4063** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 12:34 AM**

I think $60 million includes all servicing costs, parking and land costs (so it would be the total cost). However, I think that they could build 20,000 permanent seats in the $40 - $45 million dollars range and then there might be enough to cover the other costs.

someone123 · #**4064** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 12:54 AM**

How could that be expanded to 25,000-30,000 seats in the future?

Josh M · #**4065** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 1:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

How could that be expanded to 25,000-30,000 seats in the future?

put 5.5k seats at each end zone

fenwick16 · #**4066** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 1:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

How could that be expanded to 25,000-30,000 seats in the future?

It looks like most of the seats are between the soccer goal-lines, which is 105 meters or 344 feet (versus 330 feet for CFL goal-lines). Since a CFL field is 450 feet, including endzones, the seats could likely extend 480 feet along each sideline (similar to McMahon Stadium below) which would get the capacity up to about 20,000. Then another 12,000 - 15,000 could be added in the endzones to get it up to 32,000 - 35,000. However, endzone seats really are the dirt-cheap seats in the CFL. It is good to have some endzone cheap seats but it shouldn't be a large fraction of the total seats (a CFL team would have to make money).

Instead of 14,000 seats between the soccer goal-lines, I think they should be trying for 20,000 seats between the goal-lines and then it could be expanded to 30,000 seats along the sidelines if ever needed.

(source: http://www.stampeders.com/history/more/mcmahon/ )

someone123 · #**4067** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 1:22 AM**

So the dark green portion of turf is where the goal lines would be?

As fenwick mentions the endzone seats are less desirable. Presumably you wouldn't want a stadium with say 10,000 covered seats and then giant endzone seating areas.

In any case at least they're producing some fairly concrete plans now. Once they choose a site and have a plan I think people will pay attention to the project more. Hopefully they won't try to put it somewhere like Dartmouth Crossing -- that might save some money up front but long-term it would be a mistake.

Welkin · #**4068** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 1:46 AM**

With all this talk about putting a CFL team in Halifax/Moncton, has anyone ever crunched the numbers as to how much it would actually cost to start a team? I am just guessing, but I was thinking the investment would run about $25-$40 million ($10 million franchise fee, $5-$10 million training facilities/headquarters, $5 million stadium improvements (CFL caliber locker rooms, team facilities, press facilities, etc, $5-$10 million operating capital for football equipment, personnel, business operations, marketing costs, travel, etc. Anyone else have a better finger on the overall costs?

fenwick16 · #**4069** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 2:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welkin

With all this talk about putting a CFL team in Halifax/Moncton, has anyone ever crunched the numbers as to how much it would actually cost to start a team? I am just guessing, but I was thinking the investment would run about $25-$40 million ($10 million franchise fee, $5-$10 million training facilities/headquarters, $5 million stadium improvements (CFL caliber locker rooms, team facilities, press facilities, etc, $5-$10 million operating capital for football equipment, personnel, business operations, marketing costs, travel, etc. Anyone else have a better finger on the overall costs?

Hopefully a stadium would be built to minimize stadium expansion costs. The plan is to have 4 FIFA size change-rooms; if these are built with walls that can be removed then there might be room for 2 CFL size changerooms.

Has the franchise fee gone up to $10 million? I thought it was around $7.5 million.

I think that part of the start-up cost could come from advance ticket sales. Once the franchise fee has been pay then a team could start selling tickets, merchandise and TV rights to generate revenue. (Jim Balsillie obtained deposits on season tickets for an NHL team in Hamilton before he even secured a team for the city).

In any case, it would be good to have an owner with deep pockets. Having a stadium with 20,000 permanent seats might be enough to get someone interested in starting up a Halifax-area CFL team.

worldlyhaligonian · #**4070** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 2:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

That's not really a fitting analogy since they both already have separate teams anyway. It's more like asking if someone in Saskatoon would be willing to trek down to Regina for Roughriders games - and evidently quite a few do.

Uh? That's still in Sask... I rep NS, Moncton isn't in NS.

worldlyhaligonian · #**4071** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 2:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Because they love football. Not everyone identifies so strictly to the city they live in. I live in Toronto and love it, yet root for the Ti-Cats. Hamilton for me is a better football city, with football fans, a better stadium for football, and a better football team.

I doubt people passionate about football in Halifax are going to boycott just because the team isn't within city limits. Of course they'd prefer the team to be Halifax based, but in the end football comes first.

I doubt people in Boston would boycott the Patriots if they moved to Rhode Island, Connecticut, or New Hampshire. Devotion is to the team.

But Hamilton is much more reasonable of a place to have a CFL team... even compared to Toronto. But size wise... Halifax is barely on the cusp.

Honestly, does anybody not see this as a slap in the face of Halifax if we don't get a team and then are expected to drive 3 hours to go to games when as a city by itself, we would likely represent the largest proportion of the fanbase???

It just makes sense to have the team in Halifax every way I look at this. I would probably rank St. John's second if it weren't so far away and on an island.

CorbeauNoir · #**4072** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 2:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Uh? That's still in Sask... I rep NS, Moncton isn't in NS.

Regional or provincial, it's still several hours of travel to attend games that are in your 'home' market. Stampeders fans have no reason to go to Regina to attend games, they already have a local team.

JHikka · #**4073** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 5:48 PM**

End zone seating is not desirable for gridiron football games (CFL/Uteck/etc.), but for football events such as FIFA, MLS exhibition games, or anything similar, end zone seating would then be possible to a very small degree.

When I was in Columbus for a MLS Columbus Crew game I noted how their stadium was set up with permanent seating. It holds about ~20,000 for football matches. The end zones can be seen below.

If you are constructing a stadium in Halifax with 10,000 permanent on each side and then leaving the end zones open for temporary seating I would see no problem with that whatsoever.

The sideline stands looked like this:

halifaxboyns · #**4074** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 6:21 PM**

I don't mind the end zone seats; but I do agree that the main fixed seats should be at least 10k each side.

I was watching the news about the grey cup parties and I have to think that if we really focus more on a CFL model - Halifax could host a grey cup party very similar to Vancouver's...and I think everyone would agree with me; that would be one hell of a party.

q12 · #**4075** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 7:58 PM**

How about we sell the naming rights to the Metro Centre to help fund the stadium? It's got to be worth something as the largest arena in the region.

Keith's Arena? Labatt Arena? Emera Centre? Bell Aliant Place?

And plus we can sell the naming rights to the new stadium.

halifaxboyns · #**4076** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 8:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

How about we sell the naming rights to the Metro Centre to help fund the stadium? It's got to be worth something as the largest arena in the region.

Keith's Arena? Labatt Arena? Emera Centre? Bell Aliant Place?

And plus we can sell the naming rights to the new stadium.

Saddledome naming rights fetched $10 million ($1 million/year).

Nashe · #**4077** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 8:28 PM**

LOL, I don't know if Bell Aliant has $10m at the moment.

halifaxboyns · #**4078** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 9:57 PM**

Here in Calgary; we have been going through the Municipal budget process and I've had it on at my desk during the day - I like to listen in now and again.

One comment that came up in response to funding of civic non-profit groups was dealing with Municipal Bonds. Here in Alberta, I did not know that a city cannot issue a Municipal Bond. I know Fenwick and a few others have suggested funding the stadium through a bond as it's been done in the US.

I wonder if anyone has looked at the HRM Act to see if a bond issue would be something that could done? If not - then a loan would have to be taken.

Keith P. · #**4079** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 10:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

LOL, I don't know if Bell Aliant has $10m at the moment.

Well, they pay their American CEO $2 mil annually to oversee the spiraling down of a once proud company, so they probably have some spare cash that hasn't been siphoned off by the corporate management yet.

q12 · #**4080** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 10:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

LOL, I don't know if Bell Aliant has $10m at the moment.

Wait a second let me check my phone/tv/internet bill....

Yeah no I think Bell Aliant is good for the $10m.

Also this:

Quote:

Internet and television sectors lead growth

Bell Aliant Inc. reported net earnings of $76 million for the third quarter with the earnings led by growth in Internet and television sectors.
Source