DENVER | Transportation Thread

[The Dirt]

That Oslo picture is trippy. It felt like I was looking at a Fringe-esque alternate reality version of Union Station and Millenium Bridge.

[bunt_q]

So I joined Ken's tour this morning. Hadn't done that in a while. That train shed might be the coolest construction-related thing I've ever seen. A few iPhone shots from this morning:

















There's a thread for this in the main transportation forum, right? I should add these there too.

[volguus zildrohar]

That looks pretty bloody cool. I like the concept of the entire plan.

[RyanD]

I was planning to go this morning as well to see it with my own eyes but something about a crusty man hacking a lung next to me on the bus yesterday didn't settle well with my immune system.. Looks amazing though. Once it's surrounded by development it's going to be super tasty.

[The Dirt]

I've been meaning to go to another DUS tour. Anyone interested in a SSP meet at an upcoming DUS tour?

[glowrock]

My guess is one of you guys will end up making sweet lovin' to the train shed!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[The Dirt]

Only if the train shed gets me drunk enough.

[Kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by RyanD

So this is happening in Oslo, Norway called 'Barcode' where they are developing underutilized train yards, etc. (obviously more heavy transit than we are) but we can hope that DUS will get this urban!!


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8177/7897015522_c3a00c4e2d_b.jpg


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8308/7822120880_807c47ef31_b.jpg

Yo, I would appreciate it if you gave me some form of credit

[RyanD]

Fixed. Sorry. I was having a brain lapse or something that day I posted those. I had full intent to give you credit. Your Norway photo thread is absolutely amazing. Sorry for any frustration I caused.

[DenverTrans]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I get it, it's still just a shame. Thinking Colfax specifically, it's a long ways to go to say Fitzsimmons for a streetcar operating as a local. I wonder if that presents a political problem in the long run - that the 15-riding demographic gets an upgrade, while the 15L clientele stays on the bus - or if that's just too much detail for your average neighbor to think about.

Sort of our US36 dilemma in mini - it's tough for folks to imagine that the day after a new train opens the bus will still be their better alternative. (And if that's the choice you're going to leave people, it's important to think of "which people" are going to get that choice.)

I admit to being completely out of circulation. Some comments:

1. Colfax was an original LRT corridor studied by RTD in the 1980s. The plan foundered over design and cost challenges, but the route has ridership and development potential.

2. Most countries build "trams" or "light rail" because of the greater capacity and speed as compared to streetcars. Streetcars can be "sped up" with ROW improvements and proof of payment.

3. Longer routes want to be rapid like "City Trains" or Statdtbahn, like the original SW corridor with high average speed.

4. A bus is not like a rail vehicle. The USA does need better buses and bus lines, but as Cirrus notes, a rail vehicle is always smoother, quieter, and often roomier. Rail systems, if engineered and managed properly, should also offer a capacity boost.

[DenverTrans]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

What's the engine in that one? At the end of the day the most important attribute of the mall shuttle is that it is silent. Not sure how many others remember back when the mall shuttles were still diesel but the day they went away the mall became infinitely better pedestrian environment.

I like the idea of maximizing capacity with the shuttles. We almost don't have a choice. But at some point we also need the option of an express version of the mall shuttle, and obviously that can't run on 16th St. It needs to be just as distinctive as the existing shuttle so either better than what was proposed for the circulator or some sort of rail option. But taking the mall shuttle from Union Station to Civic Center takes 20 minutes and that is unacceptable for what is supposed to be the last little bit of your transit trip.

One other blast from the past. I think the mall vehicles were originally intended to be electric. Probably on rails. That was also the original intent in Philadelphia for Chestnut St.

It is a pity. Running on rails would solve much of the pavement deterioration. Running off a wire solves the noise and pollution. Using a tram vehicle probably doubles capacity (see Berlin Metro Trams). Sigh.

[Cirrus]

QUESTION: What was ultimately decided for the US36 corridor? There were 3 options a few months ago. Have they settled on one?

[EngiNerd]

Nothing yet. I believe for now the BRT lanes are being completed from Federal up to 88th St. in Louisville/Superior, and that is all that has been funded/decided on.

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/uploads/main/Board_Pres_11_13_12_FasTracks_FINAL.pdf

Here are the only other Documents I could come up with (somewhat dated now)
http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/uploads/main/QA_and_Attachments_1-6_for_Board_Report.pdf

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/uploads/nw/Timeline_of_NWR_process_FINAL.pdf

Do you think most in Boulder really realize that the train will not go anywhere near downtown or the major population centers?

[bunt_q]

Actually a decision was made. They decided to start a new planning study/public input process for the corridor to try and determine what would make everybody happy. Last I heard they were going back and forth about who should pay for the new study, RTD or the local jurisdictions.

I heard once that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. But alas, that appears to be RTD's strategy - ask again, hope for divinely inspired consensus.

[Cirrus]

OK. I'm making my monthly centimeter of progress on this Denver frequent bus map. I've decided to put it on a FasTracks map. This is what I'm going to convert to diagram form, unless someone has any better ideas:

[SnyderBock]

I would continue the US-36 BRT the rest of the way to Union Station, just so people don't think it stops short of Union Station. They will run on those dedicated RTD bus viaducts across the river and right into the Union Station underground Bus Terminal.

[Zmapper]

Cirrus, as I have stated before, the B and 79/83ltd are only every 30 minutes at mid-day. If you intend to include them, then I think you should also include the other 15/30 routes, such as the 3, 21, 130, 133, etc.

According to the West Corridor Service Plan for 2013, the 51 is also slated to get frequent service from Lakeside to Hampden. The 76 might get its frequent service back, but I am not positive on that.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

I would continue the US-36 BRT the rest of the way to Union Station, just so people don't think it stops short of Union Station. They will run on those dedicated RTD bus viaducts across the river and right into the Union Station underground Bus Terminal.

Only in the peak hour direction. The others are going to have to slog city streets.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Zmapper

Cirrus, as I have stated before, the B and 79/83ltd are only every 30 minutes at mid-day.

I'm not really showing the B. I'm showing the post-FasTracks BRT, which will have better service. I'm just coloring it like a bus route because it is one. And yeah, I'll show the bus connection to DUS. My shapefile is based on the HOT lanes, but on the diagram map it's the route that's more important.

I'll take out the 79/83.

[bunt_q]

Do trains stay because they're trains (I forget if I already asked that)? Because the northwest rail isn't planned for 15-minute frequency at mid-day last I saw.