NEW YORK | 36 Central Park So. (Park Lane development) | FT | FLOORS

[The New York Lion]

Originally Posted by ChiND

I agree with you, Chris. This could very well become the most iconic building in NY.

My goodness. I can't imagine what the Qataris are going to put up here.

I guarantee it will be hyper sybaritic.

I would hope it's at least 1,500 feet tall.

The rapacious development is truly turning the world capital into Coruscant.

[chris08876]

Trying to beat CPT would be ideal. There's some selling power in having the tallest to the roof and with park views. Unobstructed too.

CPT was always lackluster IMO. If they could pull off a design, can do wonders to aid the skyline.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i wouldn’t get too excited just yet —


The source could not confirm whether the QIA plans to redevelop the existing building or demolish it and build new.

They're not gonna waste time with a small-time refurbishment of the existing building, not with everything going on around it in the neighborhood.

[chris08876]

Thread cleaned up. Let's stick to 36 CP South.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Thread cleaned up. Let's stick to 36 CP South.

Thanks! It will be interesting to see how fast they move forward here. There's a lot of competition in progress already.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Thanks! It will be interesting to see how fast they move forward here. There's a lot of competition in progress already.

Won't it take quite a while to demolish the Helmsley?

Also, while they don't "need" to go high, do you think that this could surpass the Central Park Tower in height?

[chris08876]

2 years if I had to wager. Based on similar style demolition jobs. I believe 270 Park took something like 1 and a half years or so for demo. Something similar in scale.

But enough time to get plans and other things done. 2027 start would be nice.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by chris08876

2 years if I had to wager. Based on similar style demolition jobs. I believe 270 Park took something like 1 and a half years or so for demo. Something similar in scale.

But enough time to get plans and other things done. 2027 start would be nice.

That’s what I assumed. This can be the crown jewel of Gotham.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by chris08876

2 years if I had to wager. Based on similar style demolition jobs. I believe 270 Park took something like 1 and a half years or so for demo. Something similar in scale.

But enough time to get plans and other things done. 2027 start would be nice.

The Park Lane itself isn't really that large, maybe about half the size and height of the old 270 Park. Still, I would put demo at maybe a year and a half. A lot also depends on an expanded footprint, if that becomes possible. Then the development plan - transfer of air rights or development bonuses - would add approval time, but that could take place along with demo.
















https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-...outh-news-photo/1491563470?adppopup=true

[NYguy]

Of the potential area developments, only 2 are located directly on the park. It would be interesting to see which moves forward, and how soon.

[ChiND]

NY Guy: Since you seem to know city zoning, is the Yimby statement — that a large portion of the old building will have to be retained — accurate? If so, that would speed up this project since total demolition and a new foundation would not be required.

Here's the NYYimby article re: the Herzog & de Meuron proposal for 36 CPS.

https://newyorkyimby.com/2015/06/reveale...park-lane-aka-36-central-park-south.html

Perhaps the most notable feature of the 1,210-foot tall tower is how it utilizes the old Helmsley Park Lane. Due to New York’s byzantine and nonsensical zoning, the developers of 36 Central Park South will be forced to maintain a percentage of the old Helmsley, the same quandary that L&L is facing in its redevelopment of 425 Park Avenue.

While the City Council finally approved the Midtown East rezoning last week, that still leaves sites like 36 Central Park South out of the mix. If the old Helmsley could be removed completely, a new tower that conforms to the street-wall facing Central Park could be built, but unfortunately, the city stands in the way.

Despite that challenge, the developers have made the best of the situation, and the majority of the Helmsley will become an enormous, 200-foot-tall entry foyer for the new tower. In essence, everything up to the height of the surrounding buildings will be empty, with the actual condominiums stacked on top, to take advantage of the views — the ultimate driving force behind 57th Street’s current boom.

Handel/CityRealty


https://handelarchitects.com/project/36-central-park-south?pagi=new-york

[Busy Bee]

Breaking that streetwall would be a crime against humanity and I can't imagine someone would propose it and the city would allow it.

[chris08876]

I question the cost of a full blown conversion on the existing property + addition to the top. I suppose if the engineering works stability wise, if they say decided to go much higher and grander than Herzog & de Meuron.

I mean they could turn the existing hotel into something grander with a nice conversion and than add a top. I wonder if that possiblity occurs, what they would keep the floor ratio/floor ceilings at.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Breaking that streetwall would be a crime against humanity and I can't imagine someone would propose it and the city would allow it.

I agree.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by chris08876

I question the cost of a full blown conversion on the existing property + addition to the top. I suppose if the engineering works stability wise, if they say decided to go much higher and grander than Herzog & de Meuron.

I mean they could turn the existing hotel into something grander with a nice conversion and than add a top. I wonder if that possiblity occurs, what they would keep the floor ratio/floor ceilings at.

It seems that the four original proposals (Herzog, Handel, Pelli, and Rogers) were all around 1,200’. However, they all seem to use a portion of the original tower. The Yimby article suggests that that’s necessary, as was the case with 425 Park.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by ChiND

It seems that the four original proposals (Herzog, Handel, Pelli, and Rogers) were all around 1,200’. However, they all seem to use a portion of the original tower. The Yimby article suggests that that’s necessary, as was the case with 425 Park.

I don’t know why this particular development would be singled out, while all of the surrounding towers are not. 425 wouldn’t really be comparible as it’s an office tower, and they wanted to build larger than what was allowed at the time. What happens here depends on what they will build, what properties would be included, the specific zoning on site, and whether they would be transfering any development rights or bonuses. A lot of variables.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I don’t know why this particular development would be singled out, while all of the surrounding towers are not. 425 wouldn’t really be comparible as it’s an office tower, and they wanted to build larger than what was allowed at the time. What happens here depends on what they will build, what properties would be included, the specific zoning on site, and whether they would be transfering any development rights or bonuses. A lot of variables.

Thanks. I hope that it’s a completely new tower and a lot taller than 1,200 feet.

[Sky88]

I believe the Qatar Investment Authority wants to do something significant here and won't worry about money. It will certainly buy more properties and development rights in the hope that this tower will transform the city's skyline.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by Sky88

I believe the Qatar Investment Authority wants to do something significant here and won't worry about money. It will certainly buy more properties and development rights in the hope that this tower will transform the city's skyline.

I agree.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Trying to beat CPT would be ideal. There's some selling power in having the tallest to the roof and with park views. Unobstructed too.

CPT was always lackluster IMO. If they could pull off a design, can do wonders to aid the skyline.

CPT could have been a lot better but I don't hate it either, the top balcony is cool. But yea, this is a great spot for a new signature tower.