Philadelphia Transportation Thread

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

I really enjoy the irony of seeing a NJ Transit ticket machine sitting next to the SEPTA ticket windows at 30th Street and Suburban. SEPTA charges me extra to use their service to Philly because they can't figure out how to install ticket machines. Why am I being penalized for their ineptness? They did instald the new machines to take the money for the parking here in Exton. They have yet to be turned on and everyone has been parking for free since last year. SEPTA has been losing at least $300-400 a day minimum from parking fees here because they can't even get those working.

I chose to take Amtrak home to Exton today. Why? Well...I can buy my ticket from the machine....it's only 2 dollars more...the trains are cleaner and more comfortable and it only takes about 30 minutes with one stop at Paoli from 30th Street to the Exton train station. I couldn't drive home that fast from CC even without no traffic on the road. The R5 left at 1:19 and Amtrak left at 1:35. We passed the SEPTA train at Devon and I already had walked up the hill and in my house when the R5 that left at 1:19 arrived at Exton.

I tell as many people as I can around here to use Amtrak as an alternative to SEPTA for going into Philly. You don't even need a ticket to get on the train, the Amtrak conductor will take your money or credit card. Yes...Amtrak has hand held machines to take credit cards.

How much is the Keystone form 30th Street to Exton or Downingtown?

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

How much is the Keystone form 30th Street to Exton or Downingtown?

$6.50 for off peak....$7.50 for peak.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

$6.50 for off peak....$7.50 for peak.

wow but how would one purchase a ticket @ Dowingtown or Exton stations for the keystone , there are no ticket machines?

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by Phil_North

From http://www.thereporteronline.com/articles/2010/03/23/news/srv0000007857763.txt



If only the Blvd subway was shovel ready... $191 million could cover nearly 20 percent of the 1 Billion dollar price tag. But I'm dreaming. This is Septa we're talking about.

You know, I've always wanted something similar to a "Big Dig" right here in Philly. Just cover the Vine St Expwy and depress the inner two lanes of the Blvd, and voila!!!

Also, I believe that the Blvd subway would halfway work for the NE. The upper NE can use this, but as for the lower NE, the subway needs to be on major shopping corridor (Castor Ave) to work.

[theWatusi]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

wow but how would one purchase a ticket @ Dowingtown or Exton stations for the keystone , there are no ticket machines?

online
http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/amtrak

[Phil_North]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

Also, I believe that the Blvd subway would halfway work for the NE. The upper NE can use this, but as for the lower NE, the subway needs to be on major shopping corridor (Castor Ave) to work.

I don't think you would need major shopping for a transit line to survive. I don't see too many shoppers on the current trains, mainly commuters. Of course shopping wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it's a requirement. If there were a line along the blvd, bus routes in the NE would be changed. North-South routes such as the 14, 20, 67 could be reduced in service while new feeder routes would be created or existing ones altered. Currently feeder routes in the NE are designed to take passengers to Frankford TC and even Fern Rock (the 70 bus). With a blvd train in place, streets such as Rhawn, Cottman and Tyson would have dedicated feeder lines to move commuters to and from a blvd train.

[Qubert]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

I will say this for mike's proposals. SEPTA always talks about ridership as if it is some static, unchangable thing - particularly for Regional Rail. It's chicken or egg - do the trains run so infrequently because there are few riders or are there few riders because the trains run so infrequently?

Every Tuesday in Metro, there is a SEPTA Q&A column with Joe Casey, GM of SEPTA (I've taken to calling the column SEPTA Lies) and this week there was a question asked regarding the frequency of regional rail trains - specifically the R8 to Fox Chase and the answer raised a point I hadn't much thought about. Every RR line operates, to varying degrees, over trackage owned by Amtrak or CSX. Part of the trunk of the system operates over the NEC and in the GM's answer he stated that many routes, particularly at rush hour, have to operate at such a schedule as to accommodate Amtrak trains. Even if more trains were to be run along the routes at some point they'd have to enter the NEC (every single one of the lines has to at some point) and run at the whim of Amtrak. Now other commuter rail systems run on the national network and on Amtrak owned lines - how do their frequencies compare to SEPTA's? How does NJT do? MetroNorth? LIRR? MARC?

Plus, mike, you forgot at the very least extended operating hours for the subway. El shuttle buses are packed out at 1:30am and they crowd up at 4am for people to have to make their early shifts. Philadelphia can support it. SEPTA won't do it.

The two issues with 24/7 subway service would be maintainence (althought workarounds could be found) and crime. Let's face it, I wouldn't want to be going down into the 15st warren of tunnels at 2am. I think alot of people precieve the bus as a safer alternative.

[Phil_North]

Originally Posted by Qubert

The two issues with 24/7 subway service would be maintainence (althought workarounds could be found) and crime. Let's face it, I wouldn't want to be going down into the 15st warren of tunnels at 2am. I think alot of people precieve the bus as a safer alternative.

While safety is somewhat of an issue, would the person who chooses not to take a train a night somehow feel safer waiting at a bus stop in the middle of the night? Remember this city once had 24/7 subway service. As VZ said, there are individuals who work very late and very early shifts. Even if trains ran only every 30-45 minutes between 1 and 4 AM, it would be an improvement over night owl buses. And during these hours, there is no need for every tunnel and every exit to be open. You restrict it to "night owl" entrances. This gives you a smaller area to secure. Also, not every train needs to run, nor every station be opened. For example, the 8th & market spur would be unneeded overnight, since an alternate route is available. The North Philadelphia station on the BSL could close the Glenwood entrance and force all riders to use the Lehigh avenue side.

If more people knew they could catch a late night train, perhaps more would ride. I've ridden NYC's subway trains at 1, 2, even 3 in the morning and never felt unsafe because the trains were still packed with people at that time of night. Our trains will never be that crowded, but the concept is the same. People are safer when there are others around.

[volguus zildrohar]

NYC restricts station access to a few entrances at night. The renovated El stations only have one point of entry anyway.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by Phil_North

I don't think you would need major shopping for a transit line to survive. I don't see too many shoppers on the current trains, mainly commuters. Of course shopping wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it's a requirement. If there were a line along the blvd, bus routes in the NE would be changed. North-South routes such as the 14, 20, 67 could be reduced in service while new feeder routes would be created or existing ones altered. Currently feeder routes in the NE are designed to take passengers to Frankford TC and even Fern Rock (the 70 bus). With a blvd train in place, streets such as Rhawn, Cottman and Tyson would have dedicated feeder lines to move commuters to and from a blvd train.

Well I didn't say that shooping was the only reason why I wanted the line on Castor Ave. I feel that Castor Ave is simple more pedestrian friendly than the Blvd. In the Upper NE, the Blvd makes a lot more sense since it's the main artery for that section, but in the lower NE, Rising Sun Ave is close to the R8 line, Torresdale Ave is close to the R7 line, and Frankford Ave??? Let's just say that the residents don't want the line to run through their neighborhood because it'll ruin their quality of life. Lots of bigoted folks live in Mayfair, which is why Oxford Circle is a better choice.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

wow but how would one purchase a ticket @ Dowingtown or Exton stations for the keystone , there are no ticket machines?

You pay the conductor on the train. They take cash or credit card.

[Qubert]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

NYC restricts station access to a few entrances at night. The renovated El stations only have one point of entry anyway.

The El isn't too bad but the Market st subway stations could get tricky. The concourse doesn't strike me as particulary the type of passageway one could easily secure. the BSL has these large station concourses ala NYC subway which are also a risk.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

You pay the conductor on the train. They take cash or credit card.

Thankyou , i will do that next time im in Downingtown (April or May )

[hammersklavier]

http://metro.us/us/article/2010/04/07/03/0908-85/index.xml

Gov. Ed Rendell’s plan to toll Interstate 80 for much-needed transportation needs throughout the state, including SEPTA and other transit agencies, was shot down by the federal government yesterday, likely putting the idea to bed for good.


Other plans that have also proved tough to sell to lawmakers and taxpayers must again be considered, Rendell told reporters, including selling off assets like the Pennsylvania Turnpike and taxing oil companies. He called for a special session of the General Assembly to consider plans.
“It’s pretty much done. There’s no room to reapply,” Rendell said. “This was meant to be sustaining for the next quarter century.”


The tolls, along with a long-term lease of the Turnpike to a private company, were initially proposed three years ago to fund Act 44, which at the time was a monumental victory for dedicated transportation funding. Hundreds of millions was supposed to stream to SEPTA and other transit agencies to enhance their service for years to come.


Now, Rendell said he has no idea how to raise the $300 million a year that I-80 tolls were to raise for transportation needs that also include highway repairs and bridge construction.
He said he’s “open to everything.”

[Muji]

Terrible news for SEPTA...I really hope Rendell succeeds in getting together the funding. Although on the bright side, SEPTA won't have to cut service in the short term (from what I gather), which can't be said for most other transit systems right now.

[thenbagis]

Unfortunately this kills any non-stimulus funded SEPTA projects, including the very much needed new fare system. Which modern city still uses tokens anymore. Not even considering that finding a place to buy tokens in a royal pain...

[volguus zildrohar]

Well one thing is certain: this isn't going to give SEPTA any incentive to make their "fare instruments" any easier to obtain - reinstalling ticket machines at rail stations, expanding the availability of token/pass sales locations - don't bother to look for any of it because SEPTA will simply say that they're staying the current pattern "in anticipation" of this phantom new fare system that may or may be installed some fanciful day when the money appears like Brigadoon.

Also, as a Democrat lame duck, I sincerely doubt that Rendell will be able to cobble together a Plan B. So folks, we're stuck with our backwards managed transit system, our Roosevelt-era fare structure and our steadily atrophying ideas for improvement and expansion. Great day for public transit in Philadelphia.

I'm going to go have some scotch.

[Qubert]

I think relying on the state is a waste of time anyway. Even if they did get tolls, how much you want to bet the majority of that money would be pissed away through corruption and/or patronage in electoral districts.

The city should simply cut some fat off it's budget and start funding the city transit divison on it's own dime. Maybe an extra 2 cent sales tax would be a good idea. We can still get some funding from the state, but more and more the City of Philadelphia should begin to look into taking more control of it's transit destiny.

The biggest losers admittedly under such an idea would be the suburbs. They might be willing to kick in for Regional Rail, but I bet they would let bus service rot, leaving alot of people in the lurch.

[thenbagis]

If you're in Suburban Station this week....

SEPTA shows off new rail cars
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20100413_SEPTA_shows_off_new_rail_cars.html

SEPTA is showing off two of its new Silverliner V passenger train cars at Suburban Station.

[theWatusi]

Overnight testing of a silverliner v on the airport line:

• Video Link