Philadelphia Transportation Thread

[theWatusi]

Speaking of Septa fail...


http://failblog.org/2010/03/17/cleaner-emission-fail/

[McBane]

How shortsighted is SEPTA? In the Planphilly article, they acknowledge and pretty much blow off that the fare increase will result in a 1% decline in passengers. How low has SEPTA sunk that passenger decreases are acceptable? They should be making every effort to INCREASE ridership!

The other thing that got me was that the smart card plan is dependent on tolling I-80! I swear - we will be able to travel telepathically before SEPTA ever changes from the token system. In the meantime, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SEPTA would you invest in token machines?!!! It's a complete failure that Suburban, 30th, Market East, and all the regional hubs (e.g. 69th) do not have token vending machines!

SEPTA is by far and away the most backwards run transit agency! True, cities like Phoenix, etc. would die for our transit infrastructure - but let's face it, that infrastructure has existed here for decades and were largely built by the PA RR and the Reading RR companies, not SEPTA. Makes me wonder, if not for the infrastructure inherited to SEPTA, what kind of mass transit would we have?

[Phil_North]

Who knows how good the system could be if another management agency was running the current infrastructure. Speaking of things that could've been, look at this interesting blurb from the "Operating Contract Plan for Philadelphia's Broad Street Subway" as quoted from ELECTRIC RAILWAY JOURNAL · Vol. 70, No. 22 · November 26, 1927 · pp 977-980. courtesy of http://world.nycsubway.org/us/phila/erj-1927-broadst_operating.html.

Bold added by me

A new type of operating contract has been designed by the engineer for the conditions peculiar to Philadelphia, the relative position of city and company set against the background of past and probable future growth and development. Philadelphia is the first city to undertake rapid transit trunk lines completely equipped and ready to run by any licensed operator, i.e., built complete out of city capital, of which around $100,000,000 will soon be invested in the Broad Street trunk, now nearly completed except the terminal extension to South Street.

In this contingent plan, which is essentially an operating agreement, the Philadelphia Rapid Transit Company is recommended as a licensed operator in co-ordination with its own system, for a trial term ending in 1936, about 8-1/2 years, a sufficient time to enable both parties to gain needed experience to determine whether to carry on indefinitely. At that time and every four years thereafter the city has the right to review the agreement terms, and also the right of termination. This date is set in order to complete the major steps of the high-speed system authorized by the 1918 referendum. In 1957 the agreement is made co-terminous with the Frankford elevated lease and the 1907 city-company contract, so that the opportunity then presents itself for the city to consolidate all of the local transportation properties.

The major extension program assumed in this agreement covers only the essential lines of Broad Street to its South Street terminal, the Ridge Avenue-Eighth Street branch and the Walnut-Woodland subway-elevated to Darby, thus completing by 1935 the backbone of the city high-speed lines to the north and the southwest, which, together with the present Market-Frankford elevated-subway trunk to the west and northeast, furnishes the main axial system of rapid transit. Other extensions and branches are provided for by mutual agreement but may become mandatory on the first date of review, 1936, or succeeding four-year periods.

ELECTRIC RAILWAY JOURNAL · Vol. 70, No. 22 · November 26, 1927 · pp 977-980. courtesy of http://world.nycsubway.org/us/phila/erj-1927-broadst_operating.html

[miketoronto]

Miketoronto's SEPTA.

------------
Welcome to the new SEPTA

-Subway and Elevated train service: A train every 5 minutes or better, seven days a week from start of service until end of service at night.

-Regional Rail: Service every 30 minutes or better seven days a week on all lines.

-Regional Rail City Zone Service: Service on key Regional Rail lines, serving inner city areas such as Chestnut Hill, and Manyunk, would operate every 15 minutes or better seven days a week during daytime hours.

-Trolley lines: Service every 10 minutes or better on all lines, seven days a week during day time and early evening.

-City bus routes: High Frequency bus service, every 10 minutes or better along key corridors in the city, seven days a week.

-Suburban bus routes: High Frequency bus service, every 15 minutes or better along key corridors in the suburbs, seven days a week.

[Muji]

Come on, Mike. You think no one here's ever thought of how great more frequent transit service would be? I'm sure the city's and SEPTA's transit planners dream of that too, but none of that's going to happen because the ridership just isn't there to support that.

SEPTA mismanagement, while a serious issue, is a red herring. The real serious problems with transit won't go away until the city population (hence density) shows some significant gains, or the state and federal governments get their act together to support transit, or until gas prices go through the roof.

[volguus zildrohar]

I will say this for mike's proposals. SEPTA always talks about ridership as if it is some static, unchangable thing - particularly for Regional Rail. It's chicken or egg - do the trains run so infrequently because there are few riders or are there few riders because the trains run so infrequently?

Every Tuesday in Metro, there is a SEPTA Q&A column with Joe Casey, GM of SEPTA (I've taken to calling the column SEPTA Lies) and this week there was a question asked regarding the frequency of regional rail trains - specifically the R8 to Fox Chase and the answer raised a point I hadn't much thought about. Every RR line operates, to varying degrees, over trackage owned by Amtrak or CSX. Part of the trunk of the system operates over the NEC and in the GM's answer he stated that many routes, particularly at rush hour, have to operate at such a schedule as to accommodate Amtrak trains. Even if more trains were to be run along the routes at some point they'd have to enter the NEC (every single one of the lines has to at some point) and run at the whim of Amtrak. Now other commuter rail systems run on the national network and on Amtrak owned lines - how do their frequencies compare to SEPTA's? How does NJT do? MetroNorth? LIRR? MARC?

Plus, mike, you forgot at the very least extended operating hours for the subway. El shuttle buses are packed out at 1:30am and they crowd up at 4am for people to have to make their early shifts. Philadelphia can support it. SEPTA won't do it.

[hammersklavier]

Increased service also requires more equipment. Like, the R5 Lansdale-Doylestown FINALLY went back to half-hourly service in January, but it came at a drastic cost in train length and trip comfort. Unless you have enough equipment to operate that increased service without overtaxing the maintenance, etc., you should not be operating that service at all.

Hence what gets my goat more than anything else is underordering: without enough equipment you just can't get anywhere, either.

[Bastranz]

Originally Posted by Muji

Come on, Mike. You think no one here's ever thought of how great more frequent transit service would be? I'm sure the city's and SEPTA's transit planners dream of that too, but none of that's going to happen because the ridership just isn't there to support that.

SEPTA mismanagement, while a serious issue, is a red herring. The real serious problems with transit won't go away until the city population (hence density) shows some significant gains, or the state and federal governments get their act together to support transit, or until gas prices go through the roof.

The bolded section is the big thing. Also, local government needs to step up as well. Like we discovered not long ago, it's always nice to have the ridership, but if you don't have enough equipment, manpower, or money to provide additional service, it's just a messy situation for everyone.

[hammersklavier]

The STATE government here is key. (Does anybody know anything about Pittsburgh's transit politics?) NJ Transit, WMATA, MBTA, Metro-North, Metra, etc., all seem to do perfectly well even in the current environment despite federal underfunding.

I think that the reasons why SEPTA's problems are more magnified than other transit agencies' are threefold: 1) reluctance to fund SEPTA at the state level (mostly from the rural Republican senators); 2) the suburbs-centric setup the SEPTA board currently has, namely that each (PA) county SEPTA serves is equally represented on the board although the ridership is skewed towards the city and so if the board aligned to properly correspond with actual ridership patterns the city would have 80% of the say instead of just 20%, which also results (due to the board's political nature) in designs for new initiatives to be guided towards the suburbs rather than the city and (due to quarrels suburban counties and constituencies can have with one another) to initiatives that would cross the lines of a severely anti-transit constituency to be derailed; and 3) due to the continuing questionable methods actually employed by the agency and mismanagement that plagues it from the top all the way to the bottom. The "INEPTA" or "SEPTA Sucks" or "Society to Eliminate Public Transit Altogether" monikers are a symptomatic reflection of these ultimate causors, and themselves have their own role to play in perpetuating the cycle.

It is, of course, because of this that I feel that new transit projects, ranging from the (New) Schuylkill Valley Metro through to the Navy Yard extension and up to the Quakertown metro, R8 extension, and Roosevelt Boulevard Subway should be pursued independently of SEPTA in the near-term future and perhaps in a longer-term vision that SEPTA's role in local public transit be greatly diminished if not eliminated altogether.

[wanderer34]

Speaking of the board, in NYC, every operation has separate operations, like NYCTA controls the buses and subway system within NYC, while the MTA controls the LIRR and Metro North. And Chicago has two agencies (CTA for the city and immediate suburbs) and Metra (for regional service). Within SEPTA, there's only one board, and it's mainly controlled by the four surban counties (Montco, Delco, Chesco, and Buxco), Philly has only one representative, and everytime there's a vote, Philly always gets dicked by the suburban counties.

The regional rail is a very good system. The only problem is that it doesn't cover the immediate regional cities like Reading, Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, Lancaster, and West Chester (even though it just might change with a possible R6 extension to Reading and Wyomissing). The reason being is that SEPTA doesn't want to run diesel-electric trains. Even though Suburban Station has a history of running diesel-electric trains since it's PRR days, and Market East was originally designed to vent out diesel exhaust, SEPTA's just too lazy to do that because it's a money making, quid pro quo organization, meaning they don't really give a fuck about providing good service, as long as it lines their pockets. SEPTA's also politically run, as it's a patronage haven. Running diesel-electric trains throught the system would be the most cost-effective option that the Delaware Valley has, less expensive than electrifiying it's whole lines, but for some strange reason, SEPTA doesn't want to do it, even though pro-transit groups are screaming through their lungs to provide service.

First of all, there needs to be a separate board and a separate agency for city transit (Philly and it's immediate suburbs like Norristown, Chester, Jenkintown, and Upper Darby), and regional service. This will give Philly a much greater voice in transit issues, and leave the regional rail issues for the suburban counties. Next, the state gov't is going to have to take over SEPTA and run it like NJT and the MTA of NYC. The fact that SEPTA is a private company that runs public transit is unacceptable, especially since it recieves public funds from the city, state, and the fed gov't. It's not a taxi/limo company or a tour company, it's a public transit company, and needs to act like it!!! I just wish somebody had the balls from the city or state put some pressure on SEPTA to provide decent quality service and at least restore service to aforementioned cities from Center City. We have the third largest transportation network in the country, and we're not using it's full potential, and it's a damn shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To hammersklavier: I'm not so sure whether the BSL can extend inside the Navy Yard, since there's some military operations that goes on, but I'll admit that by not having any vending machines for Transpasses (weekly and monthly) and Trailpasses is dissapointing, especially since SEPTA used to have vending machines for tickets in Market East, Suburban Station, and 30th St, and they removed them about two years ago. But the R6 extension to Reading, another extension to the Lehigh Valley, the subway extension to the NE (although I believe SEPTA needs to tear down the current el and replace it w/ a subway from 69th St and Darby to the NE w/ four track express service), even though I believe Castor Ave is perfect for subway service in the Lower NE rather than the Blvd, as well as the new vending machines is what SEPTA needs to survive.

[Phil_North]

Does anyone know exactly how Septa's contract works with the city of Philadelphia? I know that the city owns the Broad Street Line and the subway cars and contracts it out to Septa. But does the city, along with the surrounding counties that have members on the Septa Board have the ability to decide to drop Septa altogether and replace them with a new agency? I know that PTC had an actual contract with the city.

[Plokoon11]

Does anyone know when they are starting that 95/PA turnpike project in Bucks County with the new on ramps and added lanes?

[Cro Burnham]

I'd guess in about 2050, just in time for the stimulus plan in response to the next depression.

[volguus zildrohar]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

To hammersklavier: I'm not so sure whether the BSL can extend inside the Navy Yard, since there's some military operations that goes on.

Military operations only cover a small portion of the Navy Yard. Not only is it mostly a corportate office park now but it being developed as a new neighborhood and there are concrete plans in place to extend the BSL into the Navy Yard with as many as two additional stations.

Check here for the details.

[DenverTrans]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

First of all, there needs to be a separate board and a separate agency for city transit (Philly and it's immediate suburbs like Norristown, Chester, Jenkintown, and Upper Darby), and regional service. This will give Philly a much greater voice in transit issues, and leave the regional rail issues for the suburban counties. Next, the state gov't is going to have to take over SEPTA and run it like NJT and the MTA of NYC.

I suggest that you look into this a little more. New York is decreasing funding for transit, leading to "doomsday" scenarios and fare hikes. New Jersey wants to jack fares 25% and cut service. Hardly role models at the moment.

SEPTA, by contrast, is raising fares around 6% and not cutting service. Is SEPTA perfect? No. But having the city go it alone would utterly doom transit service, as the state would not want to pour money into just one county or even the core cities.

Regarding diesel service, it is true our region (not just SEPTA) cannot seem to get together to extend service. But diesels aren't the real issue. The real issue is the region has not made it happen. In the absence of a regional push, I think SEPTA focuses on improving the core system, which is inherently more economical than the extensions.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by DenverTrans

I suggest that you look into this a little more. New York is decreasing funding for transit, leading to "doomsday" scenarios and fare hikes. New Jersey wants to jack fares 25% and cut service. Hardly role models at the moment.

SEPTA, by contrast, is raising fares around 6% and not cutting service. Is SEPTA perfect? No. But having the city go it alone would utterly doom transit service, as the state would not want to pour money into just one county or even the core cities.

Regarding diesel service, it is true our region (not just SEPTA) cannot seem to get together to extend service. But diesels aren't the real issue. The real issue is the region has not made it happen. In the absence of a regional push, I think SEPTA focuses on improving the core system, which is inherently more economical than the extensions.

What I meant was the efficiency of those two agencies. I'm full aware that SEPTA isn't the only agency that wants to raise it's fares, but even when things were normal (meaning the economy was good), SEPTA dragged their feet on certain issues like vending machines for Transpasses, regional rail extensions, customer service, and frequency. It's always been a dismal transit agency since as long as I can remember.

And I can agree with you on the last paragraph, that diesels aren't the only problem, it's actually the apathethic attitude of the city and state gov't regarding mass transit. They take it for granted, period. But even though the extension to restore service to Berks County, Lancaster County, and the Lehigh Valley will be more expensive than the system improvements, in the long run, it will pay off, since you'll have more people using the system, since those counties are about only 40 miles radiating from Philly.

[Phil_North]

From http://www.thereporteronline.com/articles/2010/03/23/news/srv0000007857763.txt

Renovations at the North Wales train station appear to be on track.

Despite delays caused by large snowfalls and a rotting roof, renovations to the station should be completed in June, according to SEPTA spokesperson Gary Fairfax.

He said work on the station, built in 1873, is 60 percent complete and within budget.

The roofing and facia of the station appear to have been faithfully reproduced, according to Ray Tschoepe, chair of the borough's Historic Architecture Review Board (HARB).

He said the board's chief concerns remain the restoration of the building and the windows that face the tracks.

"Anything done beyond that is icing on the cake," Tschoepe said.

Improvements — funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 — include the rehabilitation of the entire interior and exteriors, new energy-efficient HVAC, new lighting systems and accessibility compliant with the Americans With Disabilities Act at an approximate cost of $661,241.

The construction will return the station as "close as possible" to its original appearance, according to Phyllis Byrne, co-chair of the North Wales Historical Society.

She said the only thing it will lack is the cupola, a type of steeple on top of the station for signaling approaching trains, which was removed in the 1930s due to its deteriorating condition.

"By rehabilitating the station we are able to preserve some of the borough's charm," said state Rep. Kate Harper, R-61st District, who attended the project's groundbreaking in October.

"North Wales is a railroad town," she said. "It's nice that we can so something functional for the riders that also honors the station's past. People who ride the train will appreciate the improvements when they are finished."

Interior renovations of the ticket area will begin shortly, Fairfax said.

He said the reinstallation of four track-side windows will be one of the project's final tasks.

Refurbishing work on the windows began eight weeks ago, according to Fairfax.

He said contractors are working closely to meet design standards set by the HARB.

The work at the station along the Lansdale-Doylestown line at 435 School Street will also feature repairs to the woden fascia as well as repair and repainting the original interior wood wainscoting, according to Fairfax.

Foundation work and the installation of a steam metal roof have been finished, Fairfax said.

He said the plumbing and wiring work in the tenant area is also complete.

Eventually, the exterior walls will be cleaned and receive a fresh coat of paint, he said.

Outside brick repair remains to be done.

SEPTA is utilizing $191 million in stimulus money to fund 32 shovel-ready projects, according to Joe Casey, the agency's general manager.

If only the Blvd subway was shovel ready... $191 million could cover nearly 20 percent of the 1 Billion dollar price tag. But I'm dreaming. This is Septa we're talking about.

[hammersklavier]

The shovel-readies--bridge replacements, the new high-level (and station facility) at Ambler, the renovations at Spring Garden and Girard on the BSL, and wire and signaling upgrades were still important--but expansion of transit service is also important.

[volguus zildrohar]

That's going to take a bit of a mentality change on SEPTA's part. This is perhaps an area where the city should throw what influence it has around with the authority to get something beyond the phase of concept. If there are plans sitting on a shelf that the city wants pursued then the city should make a point of it every time the board gets together. SEPTA alone would probably never try to attack something like te Blvd subway without some huge impetus or somebody getting in their collective face about it.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

That's going to take a bit of a mentality change on SEPTA's part.

I really enjoy the irony of seeing a NJ Transit ticket machine sitting next to the SEPTA ticket windows at 30th Street and Suburban. SEPTA charges me extra to use their service to Philly because they can't figure out how to install ticket machines. Why am I being penalized for their ineptness? They did instald the new machines to take the money for the parking here in Exton. They have yet to be turned on and everyone has been parking for free since last year. SEPTA has been losing at least $300-400 a day minimum from parking fees here because they can't even get those working.

I chose to take Amtrak home to Exton today. Why? Well...I can buy my ticket from the machine....it's only 2 dollars more...the trains are cleaner and more comfortable and it only takes about 30 minutes with one stop at Paoli from 30th Street to the Exton train station. I couldn't drive home that fast from CC even without no traffic on the road. The R5 left at 1:19 and Amtrak left at 1:35. We passed the SEPTA train at Devon and I already had walked up the hill and in my house when the R5 that left at 1:19 arrived at Exton.

I tell as many people as I can around here to use Amtrak as an alternative to SEPTA for going into Philly. You don't even need a ticket to get on the train, the Amtrak conductor will take your money or credit card. Yes...Amtrak has hand held machines to take credit cards.