[Saint John, NB] Parks and Recreational Developments

[sailor734]

Nice to see Fort Howe on the list. I drove up there this fall to eat a takeout lunch and it is a disgrace! Overgrown with alders, scruffy patches of what used to be grass and crumbling asphalt. I noticed two large cannon on peeling, rotting naval style gun carriages that are leaning sideways and look like they are about to collapse. Years of neglect! The place looks abandoned.
The fact that nothing is to be done until 2029 gives me pause.....it badly needed attention probably 5 or 10 years ago.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Nice to see Fort Howe on the list. I drove up there this fall to eat a takeout lunch and it is a disgrace! Overgrown with alders, scruffy patches of what used to be grass and crumbling asphalt. I noticed two large cannon on peeling, rotting naval style gun carriages that are leaning sideways and look like they are about to collapse. Years of neglect! The place looks abandoned.
The fact that nothing is to be done until 2029 gives me pause.....it badly needed attention probably 5 or 10 years ago.

Not news to anyone, but remember that Saint John had spent decades operating in a mess of budgets that left a huge infrastructure deficit. They are finally in order financially (I’m generalizing, but it’s comparatively the case), but we now operate in a bare bones mindset that means it will take years and years to address those same deficits. It sucks, but at least we’re heading in the right direction.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Not news to anyone, but remember that Saint John had spent decades operating in a mess of budgets that left a huge infrastructure deficit. They are finally in order financially (I’m generalizing, but it’s comparatively the case), but we now operate in a bare bones mindset that means it will take years and years to address those same deficits. It sucks, but at least we’re heading in the right direction.

Oh, I understand why it happened. When you spend a decade or more with inept mayors and councils making questionable spending decisions you always end up paying a price. When it comes to government finances it seems like it's a lot harder to climb up out of a hole than then it was to dug yourself into one.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Nice to see Fort Howe on the list. I drove up there this fall to eat a takeout lunch and it is a disgrace! Overgrown with alders, scruffy patches of what used to be grass and crumbling asphalt. I noticed two large cannon on peeling, rotting naval style gun carriages that are leaning sideways and look like they are about to collapse. Years of neglect! The place looks abandoned.
The fact that nothing is to be done until 2029 gives me pause.....it badly needed attention probably 5 or 10 years ago.

It doesn't just look abandoned, it is abandoned! They close it off half the year, and the other half, they open the gate and leave folks to it.

I would love it if Barry redirected some of his house-painting efforts toward putting together a group to clean it up. I'd happily help for a few hours to clean up the landscaping and put in some native plants.

As I said in my post, there is a good chunk in the pipe for next year, but 2027 and 2028 are relatively light, with most things pushed out until 2029 or 2030. I am sure there will be another crisis by then to derail things.

[sailor734]

Abandoned is a good word.

I haven't been there in years but I understand Seaside Park is just as bad. I grew up in that area and in the 60's/early 70's it was well taken care of.. Decent playground equipment, a BB court, Tennis Court, lawns cut, benches and garbage cans. The path leading down the hill and over the tracks was maintained and there were stairs going down to the beach. All was left to go to wrack and ruin. I even think there were summer programs for kids at one point run by summer students hired by Parks and Recreation.

At least the current council is trying to do something but I think it's a pretty deep hole to climb out of.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Abandoned is a good word.

I haven't been there in years but I understand Seaside Park is just as bad. I grew up in that area and in the 60's/early 70's it was well taken care of.. Decent playground equipment, a BB court, Tennis Court, lawns cut, benches and garbage cans. The path leading down the hill and over the tracks was maintained and there were stairs going down to the beach. All was left to go to wrack and ruin. I even think there were summer programs for kids at one point run by summer students hired by Parks and Recreation.

At least the current council is trying to do something but I think it's a pretty deep hole to climb out of.

I believe Seaside Park is where the much talked about "Dance Hall" was? My Nanny used to talk about that place quite a bit.

Seaside Park has so much potential to be one of the nicest parks in the city.
There was a video posted in one of the local FB groups of kids playing basketball on the basketball court with potholes big enough for them to swim in. The Park overall is a wild mess/ borderline disgrace. The city seems to think Dominion Park/ Beach is a bigger priority for West Saint John than Seaside Park and Bayshore Beach, and I just don't get. Dominion Park Beach is great, but it pales in comparison to Bayshore. Good to hear the city is finally looking to make up for decades of neglect regarding Seaside Park and Bayshore Beach.

On a somewhat related noted, If Saint John's Rockwood Park is fortunate enough to be chosen as NB's first National Urban Park, I hope Parks Canada would consider including Seaside Park, Partridge Island, and possibly part of Fort Dufferin as separate portions of a single National Urban Park. Parks Canada has a lot deeper coffers than the City of Saint John does, to say the least.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

I didn't want to pad the main thread with too much, but there are some further recreational items, excluding the 2026 items, that have been discussed before.

2027 is very light.

2028

• Reversing Falls Trail - Phase 2 ($1.25M)
• Dog Park at Market Place West ($50K)
• Tucker Park Kayak Launch ($50K) - This sounds awesome

2029

• Fort Howe refurbishment ($300K) - Fencing/Gates/Asphalt/Flag Pole
• East Side Splashbad - ($1M)
• Rockwood Park Washroom Building Renewal ($500K)

2030

• The A-Frame replacement is described as phase 1 and 2 ($2.27M) - Demolition, new building + septic tank
• The ball hockey/basketball at Market Place West has $1M put aside for it.
• Seaside Park Phase 1 has $750K, and there is a Phase 2 with another $750K in a future, unspecified year.
• Memorial Park artificial turf ($750K)
• Loch Lomond Reservoir ($1M) - washrooms/changerooms/life guard space
• Dominion Park Trail Network ($100K)

Unspecified Year

• Shoreline Trail access to Bayshore Beach ($600K)
• St Peter's Ballfield ($500K)
• Basketball Court at Shamrock Park ($1M)

As for the ball hockey space, it's definitely ball hockey and not an ice surface. I know you are very passionate about this, but I think this could complement the new facility in the industrial park and be a good way to continue improvement to the lower west side. There will be more recreational facilities down there than almost anywhere in the city at this rate.

Speaking of outdoor ice spaces, why isn't the skating surface uptown open yet? It's been plenty cold for weeks, and I know the one in Fredericton is already open. They don't even have the excuse of it being their first year anymore. It would have been awesome to have it open for Uptown Sparkles. I am sure the kids would have enjoyed that.

Been meaning to reply to this for a while but forgot. How the hell does it make sense to spend upwards of a million dollars on a ball hockey rink and not have it open year round summer and winter as a ball/ ice hockey rink?

I can’t find them at the moment, but the Glenn Group of Fredericton had entire plan done up for Marketplace West that included a 365 day a year rink that would used for ball hockey and ice hockey (without artificial refrigeration). Yet now the city wants to basically revive these plans and keep the facility closed in the winter when Canada’s national sport is Ice Hockey? Here’s hoping the next council does the sensible thing and ensure this facility can be a 365 day a year facility.

[ell]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Been meaning to reply to this for a while but forgot. How the hell does it make sense to spend upwards of a million dollars on a ball hockey rink and not have it open year round summer and winter as a ball/ ice hockey rink?

I can’t find them at the moment, but the Glenn Group of Fredericton had entire plan done up for Marketplace West that included a 365 day a year rink that would used for ball hockey and ice hockey (without artificial refrigeration). Yet now the city wants to basically revive these plans and keep the facility closed in the winter when Canada’s national sport is Ice Hockey? Here’s hoping the next council does the sensible thing and ensure this facility can be a 365 day a year facility.

I read back in the thread but can't find the source for this capital plan. Does anyone have a link/PDF? Thanks!

[bingun]

Originally Posted by ell

I read back in the thread but can't find the source for this capital plan. Does anyone have a link/PDF? Thanks!

Item 13.4 on the December 15th council meeting.

Sometimes these links break, but hopefully this continues to work.

https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=24699

[sailor734]

Interested to see the plan for a kayak launch at Tucker Park. Saint John historically has done a poor job providing public access to our waters. This is a small step in the right direction.

They did a good job in the rebuilding the actual boat ramp at the end of Millidge Ave but the location itself leaves much to be desired..... little room, no parking facilities, no washrooms, no garbage facility and no turning area for trucks and trailers. The land on either side of the street is privately owned all the way to the water and as a dead end the street can get very congested on weekends. I've seen trucks and boat trailers parked all the way up the hill and onto Manners Sutton or Kennebecasis Dr. at times.

Taking some of the kayak traffic away may help a bit.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

• Video Link

Mr. Alexander is also running for mayor of Rothesay in the upcoming election.

I'm glad to hear him clarify that this new facility will be for residents of the entire region. Now that's what I call moving forward, together!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Recreation NB | Loisirs N.-B. is currently travelling across the province, visiting municipalities and connecting with members in communities throughout New Brunswick.

These regional roundtables are an important opportunity for us to listen, learn, and better understand the realities of recreation at the local level. From successes to ongoing challenges, your insights play a key role in shaping the support we provide and the future of the recreation sector in our province.

Upcoming visits include the Southeast Region on April 2 and the Capital Region on April 23, with additional stops planned over the coming months.
We look forward to connecting with you.

I noticed this event from Recreation NB the other day... I wonder when the date will be for Saint John and the Southwest Region?


This seems like a good opportunity to remind local and provincial leaders of the tremendous opportunity that exists to incorporate Rockwood Park, and other scenic Saint John locations like Seaside Park, Dominion Park, Partridge Island, etc. into the Parks Canada system as New Brunswick's first National Urban Park. I think our city has a very strong argument to be picked first, but we still need to make the case... Moncton and Fredericton will absolutely try and get it first... Saint John will have to have a good pitch and campaign behind our "bid".

Obviously, I'm biased, but I really feel like objectively too, Saint John has the most interesting geography, the best scenery, and impressive urban environment of any "big" city in New Brunswick, and it would only make sense to locate NB's first national urban park in its first city.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Looks like they even have an outdoor facility too… I wonder if they will put down a liner and flood it in the winter?

Here’s hoping Mayor Donna and the new council come up with some solutions to improve the sorry state of Saint John’s public outdoor skating and ice hockey facilities.

I’m also hoping some public-private sponsorships could be arranged to get some outdoor rink facilities built in our small city with a big lack of outdoor rink facilities. For example, Voltagrid and Beacon AI could gain quite a bit of public support if they paid for an outdoor hockey rink with chiller to be built on the West Side or elsewhere in Saint John.

[adamuptownsj]

Not sure if this is forum-appropriate, but I kayaked down Marsh Creek from Glen and MacKay to the Courtenay Causeway Saturday. It was... interesting. Wouldn't recommend, had to portage 4 times. But with some dredging, tree cutting, and log/tire/cart removal it would be a great recreational addition to the east side. Blackbirds, muskrats, tons of ducks and Canada Geese. It was pretty rough going until somewhat before Ashburn Lake Road where it deepened and cleared up a lot. Kind of surreal with nature at eye level and a commercial strip 10-20' feet overhead.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Not sure if this is forum-appropriate, but I kayaked down Marsh Creek from Glen and MacKay to the Courtenay Causeway Saturday. It was... interesting. Wouldn't recommend, had to portage 4 times. But with some dredging, tree cutting, and log/tire/cart removal it would be a great recreational addition to the east side. Blackbirds, muskrats, tons of ducks and Canada Geese. It was pretty rough going until somewhat before Ashburn Lake Road where it deepened and cleared up a lot. Kind of surreal with nature at eye level and a commercial strip 10-20' feet overhead.

Would be interesting to see your route and where those portages were. I guess you could have also posted this in the active transportation thread, as unconventional a mode of active transportation a kayak may be… it technically counts.

Hope you win the raffle prize for the Fundy Regional Service Commissions’s active transportation week for these efforts!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

https://saintjohn.ca/en/news-and-notices...cure-148000-jays-care-field-dreams-grant

Edit: some pictures of St. Peter’s Field taken by Barry Ogden:

St. Peter's Field







Clearly a lot of room for improvements at this ballpark!

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Not sure if this is forum-appropriate, but I kayaked down Marsh Creek from Glen and MacKay to the Courtenay Causeway Saturday. It was... interesting. Wouldn't recommend, had to portage 4 times. But with some dredging, tree cutting, and log/tire/cart removal it would be a great recreational addition to the east side. Blackbirds, muskrats, tons of ducks and Canada Geese. It was pretty rough going until somewhat before Ashburn Lake Road where it deepened and cleared up a lot. Kind of surreal with nature at eye level and a commercial strip 10-20' feet overhead.

I've done this many times in the past, you're right it is truly eye opening at times. Did you end up going under Stresscon? That part is always wild to me, but the natural stretch that runs parallel between Rothesay Avenue and Highway 1 is phenomenal and would make an excellent trailway if the old rail bed on the south bank was fixed and topped with a gravel/paved surface.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I've done this many times in the past, you're right it is truly eye opening at times. Did you end up going under Stresscon? That part is always wild to me, but the natural stretch that runs parallel between Rothesay Avenue and Highway 1 is phenomenal and would make an excellent trailway if the old rail bed on the south bank was fixed and topped with a gravel/paved surface.

You've done the whole stretch? Cool. It didn't feel like anyone had been through lately.

I had to pull out and drag the kayak a few times. Once around Broadway/Brown through a marsh, then behind Long & McQuade, then behind Fundy Animal Hospital, and a final time just before Ashburn Lake Road. If I was going to do this for fun, I'd put in at Strescon. Then I had to walk it through the culvert under the train bridge SW of CFM. Had to push through a lot of overhanging brush and a few huge logs almost trapped me.

Good thing years of building restoration steeled my nerves around spiders and semi-toxic filth.