Magee House (1119 Wellington St) | 20 m | 6 fl | Partial Demolition

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I get what OTownandDown is saying. It's a bit of a "Granfather's Axe" type situation. Heritage in general. The whole idea of façadism. Sure, the Ogilvy façade is restored and using original materials for the most part, but the foundation built by Charles Ogilvy, the steel structure that held the building for over 100 years, the floors that thousands of people walked through, they are all gone.

Even the Parliament Buildings. About a quarter of the stone was replaced. In 300 years, nothing of the original exterior will be left. Extreme example, but it still stands.

I have one more argument. Why are we supposed to assume that just because this house was lucky enough to avoid demolition in the 60's, that it would be able to last forever and after?

It's a poorly constructed house built, arguably, as a rental unit to begin with. Should it last forever without ANY changes? No way. Should we accept that it might just fall on us during a future earthquake? No.

I say we're lucky it partially collapsed when it did and didn't hurt anyone. Now it can be rebuilt better.

[J.OT13]

I'd like to see a Mattamy home last this long.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'd like to see a Mattamy home last this long.

No need to get testy, nobody's saying that Mattamy homes are good.

[J.OT13]

Maybe the quality wasn't as good as other buildings at that time, but it's highly likely that it was build better than nearly any similar house that goes up today.

[rocketphish]

Crumbling Hintonburg heritage building is a 'house of cards,' expert says

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: August 2, 2018

There was virtually no mortar holding the stones together on a wall that crumbled off a Hintonburg heritage building last week, according to the engineer hired by the city to assess the structure.

“It’s basically a house of cards, this building right now,” John Cooke said of the Magee House during a built-heritage subcommittee meeting at city hall on Thursday.

The western wall of the 144-year-old building at 1119 Wellington St. W. collapsed on July 24, forcing a temporary road closure and evacuation of a neighbouring building. No one was hurt. Neighbours have returned to their homes and the road has reopened to traffic.

Cooke compared the building to the puzzle game Jenga, where only the weight of the pieces was holding the structure together. There was loose rubble and sand between the stones and moisture washed the sand to the base of the building.

Last week’s heavy rainfall “was the straw that broke the camel’s back,” Cooke said.

His report to the city recommends demolishing the rest of the building before late November.

However, the building owner disputes Cooke’s observation that a lack of mortar and rainfall contributed to the wall’s destruction.

Ovidio Sbrissa, who’s been staying at an east-end hotel since the collapse, believes ground vibrations from nearby development on Carruthers Avenue damaged his building. He said he repointed some mortar on the building, which was confirmed in Cooke’s report.

Sbrissa, who’s an architect, said he never saw water infiltration. He had plans to repair the roof in the coming weeks.

“It’s difficult to see the internal things that are happening with the walls. Even though I was monitoring every day, living there 24 hours a day, those things happen,” Sbrissa said.

“I firmly believe what caused the collapse was not so much the rain or water. It was harmonic vibrations within the rock itself, and where did they come from? They came from recent excavations that happened there.”

He plans to hire a geotechnical engineer to look into his hunch about ground vibrations.

Nothing in Cooke’s reports to the city mentions vibrations as a potential cause of the collapse.

The city has acted on Cooke’s recommendation to surgically remove more of the building to make it safe in the short term. Sbrissa must provide the city with a report from his own engineers before making a decision to tear down or restore the building. He needs to have demolition or stabilization work undertaken by Aug. 20, although the city is flexible with the timelines. Both sides say they’re working well together during the ordeal.

Going in and on the building is considered unsafe. Sbrissa is looking into using tarps to cover the gaping hole to protect the interior.

Demolitions and alterations of heritage-protected buildings require council approval. If there needs to be more emergency dismantling of the building, the city can do the work and add the cost to the owner’s property taxes.

Cooke’s report says there are several cracks on the south- and east-facing walls. There are holes in the roof. The wood framing along the roof is decaying.

“It needed major restoration about 40 years ago,” Cooke said.

The city in 2017 issued remediation orders on the building. The city received a complaint about the status of the building in March 2018. In June, the city noted minor mortar issues and flagged the integrity of the wood framing.

According to Sbrissa, the only outstanding issue was the wooden soffits, which he planned to tackle with the roof fixes.

The building is on the city’s watch list of vacant heritage properties (the city wrongly assumed Magee House was vacant).

Court Curry, the manager who oversees the city’s heritage program, said the city will hire an engineering firm to visit the other 23 vacant heritage buildings on its watch list. The city will also give staff more training so they know what to look for when assessing the structures during regular checks, Curry said.

Sbrissa hopes to somehow save the Magee House.

“That was my castle in the city,” Sbrissa said.

“It was lovely living there. I would hope to be able to restore it. It depends on the funding. It depends on a lot of things.”

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[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Maybe the quality wasn't as good as other buildings at that time, but it's highly likely that it was build better than nearly any similar house that goes up today.

I don't know, the finishes on a modern house won't last as long but I think the structure is pretty durable unless something really goes wrong.

It amazes me that the city doesn't inspect heritage buildings. I hope that changes.

[waterloowarrior]

Moved a bunch of posts here from the Heritage Building thread... will be interesting to see what happens

[rocketphish]

Tear down the rest of the crumbling Magee House, city recommends

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: September 28, 2018

The rest of the crumbled Magee House in Hintonburg should be torn down, the city has determined.

The built-heritage subcommittee next week will consider a recommendation to demolish what’s left of the heritage building at 1119 Wellington St. W. Staff say the building should come down before the winter. The city has a proposed a teardown deadline of Nov. 15.

The city’s heritage department agrees with the proposed demolition, which was outlined in a report published Thursday.

“In general, the department does not support the demolition of designated buildings; however, there are instances where practicality and public safety outweigh the benefit of protecting a heritage resource,” the report says.

The building collapsed on July 24. No one was in the building and no one was injured. The owner, architect Ovidio Sbrissa, wasn’t home at the time.

A consultant hired by the city to examine the remains of the building called the structure a “house of cards.” John Cooke said there was major structural degradation to the building.

On Sept. 11, Sbrissa submitted an application to the city to demolish the rest of the building.

The city is waiting for a peer-review to be done of the Cooke investigation, but staff have to move quickly if they want the building torn down before winter weather arrives in Ottawa.

The city wants to see a commemoration installed at the property to tell people about the old building. That would likely happen with a panel conveying the information.

The Magee House was built in 1881 as a family home before being converted into a branch office of the Crown Bank of Canada in 1907. It’s one of the few stone structures left in the area. It’s a designated heritage building, which means any changes require council approval.

Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper’s comments are included in the report. He agrees “there is no reasonable path to preserving it.”

Heritage designation on the property would be repealed under the staff-recommended path forward. Staff want to save some of the stone for a future development.

The built-heritage subcommittee will consider the demolition application next Thursday. The planning committee and council will also have to vote before demolition begins.

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[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

The city wants to see a commemoration installed at the property to tell people about the old building. That would likely happen with a panel conveying the information.

Really? "An old building once stood here.". I guess we'll have to place these new signs in front of almost every property in the core of the city.

[J.OT13]

"“In general, the department does not support the demolition of designated buildings; however, there are instances where practicality and public safety outweigh the benefit of protecting a heritage resource,” the report says."

If they don't support demolishing heritage buildings, well they better get off their asses and do what's necessary to save those buildings before they're on the verge of total collapse. This kind of thing happens way to often; Magee House, the old school house on Cumberland, Caplan's, Ogilvy (though the building was still solid, the City was cool with that one because it was owned by one of the beloved big developers). time to step up and saves the dozens of heritage buildings on Bank that are falling into disrepair, starting with Somerset House.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

"“In general, the department does not support the demolition of designated buildings; however, there are instances where practicality and public safety outweigh the benefit of protecting a heritage resource,” the report says."

If they don't support demolishing heritage buildings, well they better get off their asses and do what's necessary to save those buildings before they're on the verge of total collapse. This kind of thing happens way to often; Magee House, the old school house on Cumberland, Caplan's, Ogilvy (though the building was still solid, the City was cool with that one because it was owned by one of the beloved big developers). time to step up and saves the dozens of heritage buildings on Bank that are falling into disrepair, starting with Somerset House.

When you say 'do what's necessary' are you referring to bylaws, funding, project management, or all three?

Only the wealthy can afford to continue to upkeep their older buildings, and that includes landlords who have good tenants, in areas of the city that have good rental values. Otherwise, who's going to pay?

I do support saving these buildings, I'm just being the devil's advocate.

As for the McGee house, it's at a point where the walls and roof would need to be removed and rebuilt, and most of the deteriorated stone replaced. That's at a cost of at least $5 million. Again, for a house for a single guy with no commercial interests downstairs, who would pay for that? And at that, you'd end up with a facsimile of the original building.

I guess the question of blame comes back to a couple questions about the chicken or the egg. Did the stone deteriorate due to weathering and cause the wall to be unstable, or did the sub-par mortar upkeep allow water in the wall resulting in the instability? Eventually all of these brick and stone buildings require their cladding to be partly or completely replaced due to freeze/thaw damage. Arguably brick is significantly cheaper to replace than stone, so it's a shame the Magee house went the way it did, because it's a dying breed. Especially in local sandstone, because the stone itself is so bad for building with.

[J.OT13]

What's necessary should be evaluated on a case by case basis. Somerset House for example, the only option at this point is expropriation. The owner pretty much told the City he has no intention of restoring the building and will sue if any work done by the City is imposed on his municipal property taxes.

In the case of Magee House, I believe the owner had good intentions, but did not have the resources to do the necessary work. In that case, a grant or loan, possibly even expropriation should have been considered. I believe the City dropped the ball on this one; how did their inspectors not see that the lack or mortar between the stones? How did the City not know the owner was living there?

If we're looking at Ogilvy, well that's owned by a huge developer. Instead of allowing them to abandon the building for 15 years while they were planning an expansion that would include part of the façade, they should have given the building full heritage designation and force Cadillac Fairview (and at the time Rideau Viking) to restore it and find a purpose for it. The expansion could have plugged into the building as it was. No reason it was demolished.

[OTownandDown]

By Paragraph in regards to your response:

1. I agree that if we want to keep Somerset House, expropriation is the only way. However what is the course of action once the City owns the building? Do we front the money to restore it to some semblance of it's former self? Again, most of the walls will be removed and rebuilt, the roof and fascia will be removed and rebuilt, and the bay windows will be removed and rebuilt. And also most of the existing brick should be replaced anyways, for longevity's sake. Do we have $30 million to spend on something like that? Who do we sell it to when it's complete, or does the City become a landlord (something the City has been moving away from since amalgamation). It's a commercial building, so in theory, the City should do the same as the current owner, and wait for a tenant to sign a long-term agreement, so that the interior fit-up and construction can at least match their requirements.

2. Magee house: Yes, the owner was lacking in money to perform the necessary work. He tried to sell condos to make money to save his house, but it never flew. Grants and loans come from government programs, of which Canada is extremely lacking in. It becomes a policy issue at other levels of government, not the City of Ottawa. Inspections would have seen that the masonry was in very poor condition, but the failure of the masonry is unpredictable and catastrophic. If you had to grade this masonry vs. all the other heritage buildings in the city, you'd find that most are in similar condition (which is pretty scary). Just look at NCC owned properties in the market. Some of those buildings are creepy looking they're so deteriorated. What of them? Do we compel the NCC to repair all of their buildings immediately? And when I say compel, what does that look like? https://goo.gl/maps/eoNTifrrGBu

In the case of Ogilvie, that building was a melange of 8 or 9 different era's of construction, the most recent being in the 80's/90's. I personally love that the building was recreated with only the original features. Also, we live in a country that values facadism over all else, and that's exactly what we got. 'Maintaining heritage' often means (for us) to re-create the look and feel without keeping the guts, the actual heritage. ALSO, the interior of that 'heritage' building was a sad, empty, deteriorated shell, even when it was simply a department store. Maybe a lobby or two with some fancy flooring, but that's about it. Plus modern shopping malls demand a huge floor-to-ceiling height, something the original building just didn't have.

We need to demand architectural excellence in our new buildings, in order to create the city we want. Our old community design plan for Rideau really only contributed to design for the construction of the stretch from Sussex to Cumberland, in that the street-front is human scale and mostly in heritage-style clay brick masonry. The American Outfitters is a great example of new buildings replacing our heritage in the proper way.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

What's necessary should be evaluated on a case by case basis. Somerset House for example, the only option at this point is expropriation. The owner pretty much told the City he has no intention of restoring the building and will sue if any work done by the City is imposed on his municipal property taxes.

In the case of Magee House, I believe the owner had good intentions, but did not have the resources to do the necessary work. In that case, a grant or loan, possibly even expropriation should have been considered. I believe the City dropped the ball on this one; how did their inspectors not see that the lack or mortar between the stones? How did the City not know the owner was living there?

If we're looking at Ogilvy, well that's owned by a huge developer. Instead of allowing them to abandon the building for 15 years while they were planning an expansion that would include part of the façade, they should have given the building full heritage designation and force Cadillac Fairview (and at the time Rideau Viking) to restore it and find a purpose for it. The expansion could have plugged into the building as it was. No reason it was demolished.

[rocketphish]

Committee approves demolition of historic Magee House
Committee also considered what should happen to the site when Magee House is gone

Laura Osman · CBC News
Posted: Oct 04, 2018 3:11 PM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago

The city's built-heritage committee has given the owner of Magee House approval to tear the historic building down, ideally before the snow falls.

It's tragic that it's come to this, committee members said, but a city-hired engineer has deemed the building too dangerous to save.

"This building is a touchstone to our past. It's gone now," said Coun. Jeff Leiper, who is running for reelection in the ward.

The west wall of 1119 Wellington St. W. crumbled suddenly in late July, posing a serious safety risk to the public and the owner, Ovidio Sbrissa, who was living there at the time.

Sbrissa told CBC he had hoped to save the building, but recognizes it may no longer be possible.

While the building is stable for now, that could change when winter sets in, according to a report by John G. Cooke, an engineer hired to assess the building.

Businesses and residents are also keen for the building to come down sooner rather than later, since the fencing surrounding the structure is still blocking the sidewalk on Wellington Street.

City staff will give the owner until Nov. 15 to demolish the building once council approval is secured.

If the building is still standing after that date, the city's building code officials will need to decide if it poses a threat to public safety. If so, the city can order the demolition and attempt to recoup the cost from Sbrissa.

The stone building was constructed in 1881 and converted to a bank in 1907. In 1996, it was designated a heritage building.

The owner once described the building as an elder person who had a stroke, according to built-heritage committee member Sandy Smallwood.

"It seems to me the building didn't have stroke, it was murdered," Smallwood said, calling the current state of events a "very clear case of demolition by neglect."

He asked if the city would take any action against Sbrissa for the deteriorated state of the building. City staff have no plans to do so.

Leiper urged the next elected council to find ways to help owners of heritage buildings maintain their buildings so similar demolitions don't happen in the future.

The committee also considered what should happen to the site when Magee House is gone.

Whatever replaces it should be "sympathetic" to the original structure, Linda Hoad with the Hintonburg Community Association told committee.

Hoad called for the city to put restrictions on the height and characteristics of whatever development comes to the site so it isn't too out of step with the history of the site.

City staff have some tools to do that when an application comes forward.

The city will also demand a commemorative plaque be placed on site to recognize the historic building that was lost.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tage-1.4850605

[rocketphish]

Historic building's owner seeks 11th-hour reprieve
Magee House in Hintonburg slated for demolition by Nov. 15

Kate Porter · CBC News
Posted: Oct 30, 2018 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: an hour ago



The owner of Magee House is once again vowing to save the historic building, barely two weeks before it's due for a date with the wrecking ball.

The old stone house on Wellington Street W. partially collapsed on July 24, and has sat open to the elements ever since.

Architect Ovidio Sbrissa, who lived and worked in the building, had applied for a demolition permit, a request city council granted Oct. 10. That demolition was to have taken place by mid-November.

This week, however, Sbrissa told CBC News he was undecided when he applied for the permit, and now intends to hire masons to restore the building.

"It's a doer. You can fix it. It's stable. It's not an unstable structure," Sbrissa said. "I'm going to restore it."

That was not the advice of engineer John Cooke, whom the city hired in July to assess Magee House.

Cooke strongly recommended dismantling the building, warning that removing even a single stone could cause another wall to collapse.

Sbrissa has been given one last chance, and must submit an engineering report this week proving the building can be adequately braced to withstand the effects of winter.

"If I don't have it in by Thursday, then they're going to damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead, come in there with their crew," Sbrissa said.

The original demolition deadline of Nov. 15 — a condition of Sbrissa's demolition permit, in fact — was given after Cooke warned what's left of the structure might not survive winter's heavy snow or freeze-thaw cycles.

The Building Code Act does give the city's chief building official emergency power to demolish a building that poses an immediate danger to the public.

In an Oct. 27 letter to the city's chief building inspector, Sbrissa wrote: "One does not euthanize a person because of a gaping wound that can be properly treated."

In the letter he refers to Magee House as the city's "most valuable cultural treasure," surpassing even the Parliament Buildings in craftmanship.

Sbrissa is asking the city for compensation for tearing down the building's crumbling west wall, which city engineers deemed a danger to the public following the initial collapse.

"I think the people who did damage should also be responsible for paying for it too," said Sbrissa.

With files from Kimberley Molina

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...erty-1.4881720

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

By Paragraph in regards to your response:

1. I agree that if we want to keep Somerset House, expropriation is the only way. However what is the course of action once the City owns the building? Do we front the money to restore it to some semblance of it's former self? Again, most of the walls will be removed and rebuilt, the roof and fascia will be removed and rebuilt, and the bay windows will be removed and rebuilt. And also most of the existing brick should be replaced anyways, for longevity's sake. Do we have $30 million to spend on something like that? Who do we sell it to when it's complete, or does the City become a landlord (something the City has been moving away from since amalgamation). It's a commercial building, so in theory, the City should do the same as the current owner, and wait for a tenant to sign a long-term agreement, so that the interior fit-up and construction can at least match their requirements.

It's the perfect place for a new Centretown branch library once the Main Branch moves down the hill.

[rocketphish]

No end in sight for Magee House as latest engineering review finds no 'emergency'

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: November 29, 2018



The rest of Magee House looks like it’s going to fall down any moment, but the city’s engineering intel suggests there’s no emergency, leaving the future of Hintonburg’s crippled heritage building in limbo.

According to Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper, the latest expert opinion from John G. Cooke and Associates says the crumpled stone building at 1119 Wellington St. W. isn’t a threat to public safety.

“At this point, the city has had engineers out to assess the state of the building and they have not drawn the conclusion that the building is in any imminent danger of collapse,” Leiper said Thursday.

“The statutory authority that the city has is very clear. The chief building official can order demolition of a building if there’s a public emergency and a public emergency in this case is if the building was in danger of collapse. For the time being, the chief building official is unable to order that demolition.”

The latest Cooke report has not been made public.

The city said it’s monitoring the property and is expecting to provide an update on the file soon.

The property owner, Ovidio Sbrissa, doesn’t want the rest of his stone building to be demolished. He believes the ruins could be worked into a redevelopment of the property.

Sbrissa wasn’t home on July 24 when the western wall of the old building suddenly collapsed, exposing the interior to the elements. No one was injured. The sidewalk in front of the building has been closed since then.

“We’re punching back and they’re deflecting the punches,” Sbrissa said of his battle with city hall.

Sbrissa maintains his belief that vibrations from traffic and nearby construction caused the wall to collapse, not the lack of mortar in between the stones as alleged in Cooke’s initial review of the building shortly after the mishap.

Sbrissa is still peeved the city ordered the southwestern corner of the building to be disassembled as part of the public safety response to the collapse.

“They’re hanging it all on public safety. That’s fair. However, they came in there and they demolished and they shouldn’t have demolished that corner. They destabilized an important stabilizing element,” Sbrissa said.

Sbrissa has received an analysis from an Oshawa-based engineering consultant and said he has also asked engineering firm Read Jones Christoffersen to assess the building next week.

Magee House dates back to 1874. It’s considered to be the last building that truly illustrates the beginning of Hintonburg. Sbrissa, who’s an architect, talked up the building’s impressive stone architecture, which he described as a non-engineered building.

Today, it’s a main-street eyesore because of the collapse.

Residents are having trouble believing the building is safe, Leiper said.

“It is a difficult determination for laypeople to make. If there’s anybody in the city or maybe the province that’s able to form an accurate opinion of whether or not the building is going to fall down, it’s probably (Cooke),” Leiper said. “That gives me some confidence that we don’t have that public safety emergency on our hands, but simply looking at it, many residents are having difficulties accepting that.”

Leiper said the city has peer-reviewed Cooke’s engineering analysis on Magee House.

There are discussions happening between city staff, the chief building official and the property owner about what should happen next, Leiper said.

“At this point, I don’t know when this situation is going to be resolved. I know the city is taking every action it can to try and bring it to a successful outcome, which either is the building gets shored up and the sidewalk gets opened, or the building gets demolished,” Leiper said.

Only the chief building official can direct a building to be demolished and he has to act according to the provincial building code, he noted.

Leiper said he personally thought that after a Nov. 15 built-heritage subcommittee meeting, at which members heard the city was re-engaging Cooke to assess the risk to the public, the building would need immediate demolition.

“I was surprised that the building is deemed to be not in any imminent danger of collapse,” Leiper said. “I’m much more discouraged today than I was a couple of weeks ago.”

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[FutureWickedCity]

I think Jeff Leiper is being very shortsighted about this. I realize that some pedestrians are being temporarily inconvenienced, but does that warrant the destruction of one of the oldest and beloved buildings in the city? If this is how little we care about our heritage, I fear for the future.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by FutureWickedCity

I think Jeff Leiper is being very shortsighted about this. I realize that some pedestrians are being temporarily inconvenienced, but does that warrant the destruction of one of the oldest and beloved buildings in the city? If this is how little we care about our heritage, I fear for the future.

So how much should the building owner pay to the surrounding businesses for loss of income, per month, until the building is repaired?

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by FutureWickedCity

I think Jeff Leiper is being very shortsighted about this. I realize that some pedestrians are being temporarily inconvenienced, but does that warrant the destruction of one of the oldest and beloved buildings in the city? If this is how little we care about our heritage, I fear for the future.

Please try and keep some perspective. I would be willing to wager that 98% of the people in this city had never heard of this building 6 months ago, and of the 2% who were familiar with it, a small fraction of those "beloved" it.

This obsession with trying to preserve every last stone and/or facade which is 75+ years old gets really tiring.