Atlantic Canada airport thread

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

Here are some interesting fantasy renders based on my conceptual Sketchup models for YSJ I posted a few weeks ago, as well as some public feedback I provided on the land use plan that shows 3000-foot runways, space for a hotel, business park and provisional space for an entirely new terminal.

Would certainly be nice to see YSJ get some upgrades, especially runways upgrades etc that could lead to more flight.

Still, I think money would be better spend building a new airport midway between the Saint John and Fredericton regions.

In the short term, it’s probably more cost effective for the province to simply subsidize some new flights for YSJ than pump tens or even hundreds of of millions into the airport and hope those upgrades result in more flights for YSJ.

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Would certainly be nice to see YSJ get some upgrades, especially runways upgrades etc that could lead to more flight.

Still, I think money would be better spend building a new airport midway between the Saint John and Fredericton regions.

In the short term, it’s probably more cost effective for the province to simply subsidize some new flights for YSJ than pump tens or even hundreds of of millions into the airport and hope those upgrades result in more flights for YSJ.

Getting more flights and planning for the future both need to happen simultaneously, because the latter takes MUCH longer, and you need a plan to accommodate when those flights come. It’s not one or the other that needs priority attention now, but both!

[J81]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

MonctonRad doesn’t have Trump derangement syndrome lol.

Some of you people are being willfully ignorant/obtuse about the economic reality and opportunities that exist to increase our ties and cooperation with China… even if we don’t agree on anything.

China is clearly a more stable partner for Canada at the moment than the US.

Thankfully our PM is both an economist and a pragmatist… his decision to reset the relationship with China was highly logical and economically prudent. Some of you get way to emotional when it comes to China, but I bet very few of you have actually been there and even know much about their economy beyond stuff heard from some bias biased sources…

Lets just forget about the communist part right? Oh and all the human rights violations too!

[J81]

Apparently YQM had a slight decline ( 0.8 % ) in passenger numbers last year. I have to say im a bit surprised.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by J81

Lets just forget about the communist part right? Oh and all the human rights violations too!

You’re truly one of the smartest posters on these forums. What an astute and nuanced analysis! Have you ever thought of applying at Global Affairs Canada?

[J81]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

You’re truly one of the smartest posters on these forums. What an astute and nuanced analysis! Have you ever thought of applying at Global Affairs Canada?

You mean like the mindless drivel you spam on here constantly? No thanks!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by J81

You mean like the mindless drivel you spam on here constantly? No thanks!

LOL, okay!

Any news regarding planes and airports in Atlantic Canada?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

Getting more flights and planning for the future both need to happen simultaneously, because the latter takes MUCH longer, and you need a plan to accommodate when those flights come. It’s not one or the other that needs priority attention now, but both!

Fair enough , but does YSJ really need a bunch of upgrades to get back to the number of flights that existed 10+ years ago?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by J81

Apparently YQM had a slight decline ( 0.8 % ) in passenger numbers last year. I have to say im a bit surprised.

I'm surprised as well.

The decline however is minimal.

[magee_b]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Fair enough , but does YSJ really need a bunch of upgrades to get back to the number of flights that existed 10+ years ago?

The big thing for the airport is just getting back to the pre-covid level of seat capacity (frequency being the main driver), which will require the airport to actively put forward its business case to airlines.

However, given the change in aircraft sizes and scheduling, the terminal desperately needs an expansion to at least the check in area to handle any increase in either frequency or new airline partners. Its setup to handle 50-100 people going through and getting on 50-70 seater aircraft, not the larger aircraft that come through in the summer months. The airport recently also took out 2 check-in counters to make room for increased security screening and departure lounge capacity.

A look back at some older schedules showed the scheduled summer peak in 2020 was supposed to have around 5,000 weekly departing seats available out of YSJ mostly on sub-100 seat aircraft. This obviously didn't come to fruition once Covid shut down travel.

While other airports in the region have mostly recovered their capacity, this summer at YSJ there's currently only ~3,300 weekly departing seats scheduled. It's a massive gap and really impacts the ability to connect to our region.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by magee_b

The big thing for the airport is just getting back to the pre-covid level of seat capacity (frequency being the main driver), which will require the airport to actively put forward its business case to airlines.

However, given the change in aircraft sizes and scheduling, the terminal desperately needs an expansion to at least the check in area to handle any increase in either frequency or new airline partners. Its setup to handle 50-100 people going through and getting on 50-70 seater aircraft, not the larger aircraft that come through in the summer months. The airport recently also took out 2 check-in counters to make room for increased security screening and departure lounge capacity.

A look back at some older schedules showed the scheduled summer peak in 2020 was supposed to have around 5,000 weekly departing seats available out of YSJ mostly on sub-100 seat aircraft. This obviously didn't come to fruition once Covid shut down travel.

While other airports in the region have mostly recovered their capacity, this summer at YSJ there's currently only ~3,300 weekly departing seats scheduled. It's a massive gap and really impacts the ability to connect to our region.

The increase in aircraft size is certainly a big difference between now and 10-15 years ago. Still, I wonder how many upgrades (if any) are actually needed to simply add a few more daily / weekly flights. YSJ was completely left out of the government funded program that brought subsidized routes between every “major” Maritime airport except YSJ. . .

We need the province and Atlantic Opportunities Agency to step up and subsidize a few more routes servicing YSJ, since YSJ needs the subsidized flights far more YFC and YQM, which are doing a lot better than YSJ comparatively. Heck, even Bathurst just got a major boost to their airport before YSJ.


YSJ should at least be getting a few more subsided routes between Toronto, Montreal, Halifax, and/or Ottawa, even if they operated as “milkruns” with YSJ in the middle.

Some in this thread claim that people flying between Toronto and Halifax won’t want to take the milk run that makes a stop at YSJ, but I don’t really agree with their assessment. Halifax already has all kinds of non stop daily flights between Toronto and Halifax… so adding a subsidized route between Halifax<->Saint John<->Toronto/Montreal/Ottawa route would actually enhance the reach of the airport more than another non stop to Toronto, Montreal, or Ottawa would… and there is a niche market for inter-maritime air travel, including people needing to get between Halifax and Saint John… two cities located quire close to each other “as the crow flies”, but quite far away from each other in terms of driving… let alone taking a bus.

If these routes were cheaper due to subsidy, I’m sure many Haligonians would have no problem flying through YSJ onwards to Montreal or Toronto if it saved them a few bucks.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

I thought this was a slightly interesting post by Saint John mayoral candidate, Mohamed Elazab, along with some pretty myopic and pessimistic comments lol





I thought the ex airport employee’s comment was especially pessimistic and self defeating. YQM is not Saint John’s international airport, lol, if anything YFC is.


Since a new, Fredericton—Saint John combined airport is still nothing more than a proposal, we have to work with the airports we have, not the airport we want. YSJ has a lot of room for improvement, and there are some highly achievable goals that can be accomplished in terms of bringing more flights to the airport in the short term, especially if government subsidies are involved.

However, beyond bringing more flights to YSJ, we need to vastly improve the bus connections and airport shuttle services to and between our airports. First things first, the priority should be on subsidizing more bus routes between Saint John and Fredericton, so it becomes far more viable and convenient for people in the Saint John Region to take a bus, or airport shuttle, to our nearest International Airport, which is is YFC—Fredericton International, not YQM—Moncton International.

I know a lot of people on this Atlantic sub forum aren’t huge on taking the bus, or even an airport shuttle that picked you up at your house, but I can’t imagine why anyone would rather drive an hour or more to YFC and have to pay for parking, instead of just taking a bus or airport shuttle.

YFC is Saint John’s international airport, but it should be far more convenient and affordable for people in the Saint John Region (the larger CMA) to get to their nearest international airport without driving their car, taking a taxi, or relying on friends and family to get them there. Plus, improving the bus connections between Saint John and Fredericton will be a good thing for people in both cities, and for tourists visiting both cities.

If YFC ever got some serious upgrades, and improved connections to Saint John, we could see PSJ become a cruise port where Canadians could actually board cruises one day… and this would be a hugely positive thing for tourism in both Saint John and Fredericton.

[dhottawa729]

Interested to hear people's thoughts on my land use plan markups for YSJ. Does it make any practical sense, or did I miss anything? I think they are important things to identify on the plan that the consultant hadn’t included in their original draft. I mean, the land use plan should obviously show land designation for full buildout of runways, for starters!

[magee_b]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

Interested to hear people's thoughts on my land use plan markups for YSJ. Does it make any practical sense, or did I miss anything? I think they are important things to identify on the plan that the consultant hadn’t included in their original draft. I mean, the land use plan should obviously show land designation for full buildout of runways, for starters!

If they were ever going to build a brand new terminal, starting fresh on the other side of the airfield as you have suggested makes the most sense as the space is there and they can build a proper access road directly from the arterial. I do believe they will one day build an access road over to that side from the arterial as part of their land development plan - I think it might even be considered in the roundabout design that was supposed to be implemented at the arterial/Loch Lomond intersection.

With the runways you've outlined, it would be pretty difficult to expand RWY 32 or 23 to the north or east as the Little River runs pretty much where you have the runways intersecting, and there would need to be some massive earthworks to remove the rocky hills on the other side of the river. So there isn't a lot of practical sense for that configuration - If any extension happens it would be far easier to just extend RWY 05 south a bit, as they did when they added 200ft during the Airfield Modernization project in 2019. (They had originally pitched a 3,000ft extension as part of their project, but focused on the airfield resurfacing and runway lighting / instrument / safety upgrades at the time)

[Mattyyy]

For years I have enjoyed reading these forms. Well written posts by intelligent, well mannered and well thought out updates on exciting developments / speculation. I have to say as of late, a few posters are creating a toxic environment created by nothing but negativity. Regardless of the post and it's good news - it is always driven to the same Saint John vs. Moncton conversation and it's getting very old very quickly. It's nice to have dreams, but when you have to put down another city to do this or grasp at ideas or concepts that are so stupid and out of this world, it just makes for non-productive conversation. Maybe we can move on?

[bridgeoftea]

I guess with the new YSJ CEO only time will time on where the path forward lies for the airport.

Definitely surprised Moncton saw any reduction, but I can see huge growth over the coming years with the additions they are doing.

Interestingly enough YHZ price point for me this year has caused all my flights to be out of YHZ even including gas + parking or the Pascan hopper. Instead of using one of the 3 NB airports like I normally do.

Here's hoping all the maritime airports can focus on some interesting routes outside of the USA that will boost traffic.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

For years I have enjoyed reading these forms. Well written posts by intelligent, well mannered and well thought out updates on exciting developments / speculation. I have to say as of late, a few posters are creating a toxic environment created by nothing but negativity. Regardless of the post and it's good news - it is always driven to the same Saint John vs. Moncton conversation and it's getting very old very quickly. It's nice to have dreams, but when you have to put down another city to do this or grasp at ideas or concepts that are so stupid and out of this world, it just makes for non-productive conversation. Maybe we can move on?

Just to be clear, I don't agree with the comments of the mayoral candidate I posted. I don't think Moncton has been "given [Saint John's] flights" as he so bluntly, and inaccurately put it.

Obviously, I'd like to see more flights return to Saint John, and more, but I do think we need to be realistic when Fredericton and Moncton have International Airports, and Saint John does not. Therefore, I'd like to see much more affordable and convenient options for Saint Johners to get to both Fredericton and Moncton's International Airports, or even YFC - Halifax for that matter.

Driving yourself, asking a friend or family member to drive you, or taking a very inconveniently scheduled Maritime Bus, shouldn't be the only real options for people in Saint John to get to the airports in Fredericton, Moncton, and Halifax.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

I guess with the new YSJ CEO only time will time on where the path forward lies for the airport.

Definitely surprised Moncton saw any reduction, but I can see huge growth over the coming years with the additions they are doing.

Interestingly enough YHZ price point for me this year has caused all my flights to be out of YHZ even including gas + parking or the Pascan hopper. Instead of using one of the 3 NB airports like I normally do.

Here's hoping all the maritime airports can focus on some interesting routes outside of the USA that will boost traffic.

Would be great to see some transatlantic routes replace existing/former routes to the US.

Even YSJ had that one international flight (To Orlando). I wonder if Saint John<->Dublin could be a workable weekly route or something in the summer, or if YSJ's runways are even long enough for the typical aircraft that run transatlantic routes.

Here's hoping YSJ's new CEO has success bringing about big, positive changes for the airport.

[Bishop2047]

https://www.facebook.com/FrederictonAirp...pt-our-terminal-busy-i/1221263670192683/

Fredericton finally released numbers. 4.4 percent rise from last year in pax, 393,000. Also I was not aware that they extended the runway by another 1000 ft.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

https://www.facebook.com/FrederictonAirp...pt-our-terminal-busy-i/1221263670192683/

Fredericton finally released numbers. 4.4 percent rise from last year in pax, 393,000. Also I was not aware that they extended the runway by another 1000 ft.

I believe the secondary runway was extended in anticipation of future work on the primary one.