Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[WarrenC12]

Have their been any overdose deaths there yet?

If Oppenheimer is any guide, they wait for the first violent assault or death to actually do anything.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Have their been any overdose deaths there yet?

If Oppenheimer is any guide, they wait for the first violent assault or death to actually do anything.

I think that's right, but do what? If they shut down the camp, won't it just pop up elsewhere?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by IanS

I think that's right, but do what? If they shut down the camp, won't it just pop up elsewhere?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. This stuff magically disappears in the winter.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. This stuff magically disappears in the winter.

Should we start a new thread and poll guessing where they will head to next?

[s211]

Originally Posted by scryer

Should we start a new thread and poll guessing where they will head to next?

Advocates perhaps might suggest a very visible public area: art gallery plaza?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Most of the temporary modular housing has been built in the City of Vancouver. There were 128 fewer homeless counted in Vancouver in 2020 compared to 2019. The Buchan, Howard Johnson and American hotel purchases were after the homeless count, which was in March, so of course they had no impact on the numbers.

So you think there are less homeless people now on the streets then?

Even without the hotels, shouldn't the modular housing which opened up within the past year reduce the number by a few hundred? I don't get why you keep sugarcoating the situation.

Originally Posted by Nites

Think it will hit 400 tents by the end of August?

The status quo only encourages more to do whatever they want, and not be responsible for their own actions.

Originally Posted by IanS

I think that's right, but do what? If they shut down the camp, won't it just pop up elsewhere?

Keep shutting them down and people will learn to straighten up, ie. clean themselves up from their choice on addiction, drug peddling, etc.. Those that don't will have to learn it the hard way. There should also be outlets to help others genuinely in distress a way out, ie. the abused and individuals with mental health problems. Those who really want work can find work out there. It's also a choice.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Vin

Keep shutting them down and people will learn to straighten up, ie. clean themselves up from their choice on addiction, drug peddling, etc.. Those that don't will have to learn it the hard way. There should also be outlets to help others genuinely in distress a way out, ie. the abused and individuals with mental health problems. Those who really want work can find work out there. It's also a choice.

You have more faith in people than I do. These are people who already think the world is against them - if we keep shutting them down it will only make some of them double down on what they're doing.

I don't agree that they should be allowed to get away with this behaviour. One problem is that "outlets to help others genuinely in distress" pretty much don't exist. It's been a long time since there was funding for such places, so we're almost starting from scratch - which means it's going to take a looong time to get those places built and operational (and that's not even talking about the politics of it).

On a side note (and I may have mentioned it on here before) I used to know someone who was homeless for awhile. We really don't help these people out by not allowing them to keep their ID up to date. Just think of all the places you go / things you do that require current picture ID - which homeless people are cut off from. Yeah they might be able to get some of it but we're making them jump through hoops that the rest of us don't have to. How many jobs are out there that hire people without ID?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yeah, the logical endpoint of a zero-tolerance approach is either anarchy or a Final Solution. Not a good idea.

Originally Posted by Sheba

How many jobs are out there that hire people without ID?

Just as importantly, how many hire people without a fixed address, phone number or ability to make a resume? Obviously not all the bottom 1% will automatically be lawful and productive if given a stable home and access to resources, but it definitely helps.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

So you think there are less homeless people now on the streets then?

Even without the hotels, shouldn't the modular housing which opened up within the past year reduce the number by a few hundred? I don't get why you keep sugarcoating the situation.

The survey suggests the number of homeless living on the streets of the city of Vancouver (or under bridges, in parks etc) was lower in March 2020 than in March 2019. That's why it was reported as "Vancouver sees slight decrease in homeless population". That seems like good news - in 2019 there were 614 unsheltered homeless, and in 2020 there were 547 in the City of Vancouver.

That's not sugar coating anything. It's pointing out that building the temporary modular housing has helped reduce the number a bit - even with the steady gentrification or closure of SRO rooms in the DTES pushing more low income residents into homelessness. The new temporary and permanent non-market housing has presumably contributed to that improved situation. If the new units hadn't been built the homeless count would undoubtedly have gone up - a lot.

You seem to confuse 'homeless', 'drug-using' and 'on the street'. They're all different - although they overlap. Are there more people on the streets of the city during the day? Undoubtedly there are - but that's not necessarily got anything to do with homelessness. Many of the people who spend their days hanging out on East Hastings, in the West End, along Granville, in Grandview Park etc. etc. aren't homeless - they have a room to sleep in at night. That's all they have though, a room; their social networking, street drugs (if they use them - many don't), and day-to-day transactions are based on the streets and laneways. That's an entirely different, and probably more difficult problem to 'fix' than homelessness.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Just as importantly, how many hire people without a fixed address, phone number or ability to make a resume? Obviously not all the bottom 1% will automatically be lawful and productive if given a stable home and access to resources, but it definitely helps.

Oh I know. Without a current ID you can't get a library card to access their computers to do a job search or print out a resume - things you kind of need to do to get a job nowadays. Homeless people are pretty much being pushed to stealing, selling drugs or working under the table (likely under shit conditions) to make any money.

[SpongeG]

for a lot of them its their lifestyle of choice. I think I've mentioned it before, but there was a documentary I saw on Knowledge network once that followed around and interviewed squatters and homeless younger people. They say that the world has enough waste and thats what they live on. Empty houses are there for the squatting, peoples garbage supplies what they need and they can make enough on handouts for what they need to buy so why should they join the sheeple and get a job and a license etc.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Sheba

You have more faith in people than I do. These are people who already think the world is against them - if we keep shutting them down it will only make some of them double down on what they're doing.

I don't agree that they should be allowed to get away with this behaviour. One problem is that "outlets to help others genuinely in distress" pretty much don't exist. It's been a long time since there was funding for such places, so we're almost starting from scratch - which means it's going to take a looong time to get those places built and operational (and that's not even talking about the politics of it).

On a side note (and I may have mentioned it on here before) I used to know someone who was homeless for awhile. We really don't help these people out by not allowing them to keep their ID up to date. Just think of all the places you go / things you do that require current picture ID - which homeless people are cut off from. Yeah they might be able to get some of it but we're making them jump through hoops that the rest of us don't have to. How many jobs are out there that hire people without ID?

Works in other cities and countries. Here our apathy and fake sympathy just make the situation get out of hand. Seriously, if there are not so many freebies that one can rely on, a person's survival mode will kick in. Those who are sane or not habitual addicts will try to get a job to live. Those who can't, they need rehab anyway. But if we have a system that tends to spoil everyone irregardless of their situation, there are always those who choose to take the easy way out. Worse still, they get into substance abuse along the way, after being exposed to all this nonsense.

Sadly, those in charge are still taking tax payer money to fund programs which will never eradicate the problem, such as giving out free drugs.

As for an ID, if a person is pushed to get one, he or she will have an ID.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The survey suggests the number of homeless living on the streets of the city of Vancouver (or under bridges, in parks etc) was lower in March 2020 than in March 2019. That's why it was reported as "Vancouver sees slight decrease in homeless population". That seems like good news - in 2019 there were 614 unsheltered homeless, and in 2020 there were 547 in the City of Vancouver.

That's not sugar coating anything. It's pointing out that building the temporary modular housing has helped reduce the number a bit - even with the steady gentrification or closure of SRO rooms in the DTES pushing more low income residents into homelessness. The new temporary and permanent non-market housing has presumably contributed to that improved situation. If the new units hadn't been built the homeless count would undoubtedly have gone up - a lot.

You seem to confuse 'homeless', 'drug-using' and 'on the street'. They're all different - although they overlap. Are there more people on the streets of the city during the day? Undoubtedly there are - but that's not necessarily got anything to do with homelessness. Many of the people who spend their days hanging out on East Hastings, in the West End, along Granville, in Grandview Park etc. etc. aren't homeless - they have a room to sleep in at night. That's all they have though, a room; their social networking, street drugs (if they use them - many don't), and day-to-day transactions are based on the streets and laneways. That's an entirely different, and probably more difficult problem to 'fix' than homelessness.

Thanks for taking time to answer me regarding the homeless stats. However, the growth in tent cities around town seems to be pointing at the opposite direction. Could it be when the count was made back in March and before, many of the homeless individuals were actually in temporary shelters due to the cold wet weather? After the pandemic lockdown started, many of the shelters were shut down and hence the people poured back out on the streets, resulting in more sleeping on the sidewalks and parks. Hence the number of homeless individuals should be way more than when the count was made.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Thanks for taking time to answer me regarding the homeless stats. However, the growth in tent cities around town seems to be pointing at the opposite direction. Could it be when the count was made back in March and before, many of the homeless individuals were actually in temporary shelters due to the cold wet weather? After the pandemic lockdown started, many of the shelters were shut down and hence the people poured back out on the streets, resulting in more sleeping on the sidewalks and parks. Hence the number of homeless individuals should be way more than when the count was made.

That's true - temporary winter shelters are funded from October to March, and so about 350 of the Vancouver count (assuming all the shelters were full on the night of the count) would have been sheltered homeless who wouldn't have that space available from April on. That's partly why the Province funded the acquisition of the hotels. But that's true every year, and the shelter bed count was the same last year. The tent city is a recent event in Vancouver, but there have been tent encampments in other municipalities and historically in Vancouver as well. It doesn't necessarily mean more homeless people - it might be a greater concentration geographically. That would be particularly true if there's a belief (justified or not) that being in the camp increases a chance of being offered a more permanent room.

[a very long weekend]

I wonder how long it'll be until we see semi-permanent structures start to pop up in Strathcona park. A sort of mini-favela that evolves out of this whole laissez faire "policy," inevitably ratified by some goofy judge.

[WBC]

This is from my observation of one particular couple (in probably late 30s of 40s) that regularly frequents a pedestrian walkway between two buildings in Metrotown. I live in one of the buildings above the walkway and have clear view of the proceedings. I am by no means expert on the issue, these are just my observations.

- They showed up at the begging of the Summer of 2018. Typically, they call their dealer (as they have phones) who shows up with drugs usually in late afternoon. Towards the end of the day they get high and have episodes that involve hallucinating, yelling and getting paranoid (they accuse each other of stealing clothes, phones, etc. and become somewhat violent, but nothing too concerning).

- They set up a little tent and slept all Summer of 2018 in there with these episodes repeating almost every day. During the morning they would be gone and would typically return to their tent in the afternoon.

- Our strata president called the non-emerg RCMP line numerous times (30+ times by his count). RCMP showed up a few times, talked to them and essentially did nothing. Eventually RCMP got tired of it and essentially told us not to call them unless they turn violent. They also told us to talk to City of Burnaby that at that time established the homeless task force. Once you call the RCMP and if they actually show up the responding officer returns you a favour by debriefing you about the incident at 2 or 3am (this would be a passive -aggressive way of telling you not to call them again about this issue).
- We called the Burnaby homeless task force to intervene. They talked to the couple and offered them temporary shelter while they look for a permanent home for them. The couple refused the temporary shelter but were interested in the permanent home. So, they were put on the waiting list for permanent home.

- In the meantime, other homeless start to congregate in the area and we had to hire private security patrols to escort the newly arrived homeless out of our garage (as we share the garage with commercial section it is not possible to close the garage during the day). We had a few issues with car break-ins and an incident where a guy started a fire in the garage to cook food which triggered a fire alarm. Soon the local area and our garage is covered in trash, needles, feces, etc.

- Then by the early fall of 2018 they are all gone. We stop calling the private security although we still have a contract with them. From what we heard from Burnaby task force the couple in question got a permanent home and with them gone and the weather getting worse the rest of the gang was gone too.

- In 2019 and this Summer (2020) the original couple shows up sometimes (say once a week). They no longer have a tent (although at one point they got a full-sized mattress to lay on). There is far less other homeless in the immediate area and things are way better. It seems that Burnaby finding them a home helped. But it also looks like that they still like to come here from time to time to get high.

Once the homeless drug addicts show up in your area they just attract more to come. You need to deal with it, or else Gong Show will follow. Police and RCMP are in general useless for this unless they get marching orders from the city to clean up the area. You have to work with the city and probably hire private security to deal with them. As for the Strathcona Park, I would not be surprised that a lot of these folks already have a shelter in the city but chose to “vacation” in the park. If they are gone by the Fall that means they likely have a place to live. I pity the poor people in the area that have to deal with this. I saw it firsthand how quickly and bad can it get with just a handful of homeless. This must be a nightmare. What Vancouver is doing allowing this to happen for weeks and months is just shameful.

[whatnext]

The City of Vancouver has rehoused the homeless it had in two Community Centres:

Homeless people moved out of Vancouver community centres
Roundhouse and Coal Harbour facilities provided refuge for approximately 200 homeless people
By Mike Howell | August 10, 2020

About 200 homeless people who resided in two Vancouver community centres have been provided temporary accommodation elsewhere in the city, and park board staff is now preparing the Coal Harbour and Roundhouse facilities to partially reopen to the public in September.

Both centres became places of refuge for homeless people during the early days of the pandemic in an effort to prevent transmission of the coronavirus among people living on the street and in shelters.

Roundhouse in Yaletown closed June 19 to its guests, and Coal Harbour, located on the waterfront near Stanley Park, shut its doors July 3. Over the period the centres were open, approximately 125 people stayed at Roundhouse and 75 at Coal Harbour...

https://biv.com/article/2020/08/homeless-people-moved-out-vancouver-community-centres

[rofina]

Originally Posted by s211

Advocates perhaps might suggest a very visible public area: art gallery plaza?

City Hall seems fine to me. Lots of space. Central.

Why not?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by rofina

City Hall seems fine to me. Lots of space. Central.

Why not?

Better still, the lawn in front of City Hall is a great place as a homeless camp. Captain Vancouver can guard over them. Why not?


Apparently Oppenheimer Park is still closed to the public as it had been degraded to the extent that more public funds need to go in to rehab it. I suppose the next one will be Strathcona Park. What a failure of a City. I should stop paying my property taxes too.

[officedweller]

.. and isn't there a vegetable garden at City Hall? It would be more sustainable.