Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

So this is a GREAT sign for the walkability of the neighbourhood, something Burnaby as a whole has been rather crappy on, on top of the benefit to cyclists.

I think that some of the recent projects have shown that Burnaby has seen the light. I love how they've set back the buildings in the blocks around Highgate mall to leave lovely wide walkways. And you can see the same thing around Metrotown. Unfortunately, the wide sidewalks in front of Metrotown are rather unappealing because they suffer from the same inward-facing development that's prevalent in so much of Surrey. Highgate is so much more engaging for the pedestrian.

[TransitJack]

I think there is a need for both multi-use or off-street bike paths but also a need to continue with the old school bike lanes on roads. Personally, I prefer riding on the road (in most cases). I'm a road cyclist and want to go far and fast. I obey the rules and am respectful to the cars. But I choose my routes smartly. I'm comfortable on King Edward, for example with the cars, but can never understand people who ride along Broadway (especially since there is a bike route a block away).

I choose my road routes based on shoulder width and then bike lanes. I don't get much from the bike lane on 49th from Cambie to Oak, but I appreciate its' place. But what is silly is beyond Oak west and Cambie East, there is no bike lane... so why bother putting one in for just a short distance. I also take advantage of the City's extensive bike routes and keep off the major North/South roads.

As for bike paths, I definitely make use of them around major interchanges and bridges, and appreciate when there is a safe non-car area to go to access key points along a busy route. I get that I need to slow down and be mindful of other users, but not all cyclists do. And there in lies the potential conflict.

I was pleased that Richmond kept the bike lanes along Railway when they constructed the new shared-use path on the old rail ROW, for example. but can't figure out the path they built east of 4 road on River Drive. A big wide path that dips at every driveway and the road it self has no shoulders... forces most bikes to ride with the cars (because who wants to risk riding over so many driveways that dip every few feet), rather than making a wider shoulder and keeping the sidewalk for pedestrians. Imagine if they paved the dyke in that section... would be much nicer instead of a wide sidewalk in front of peoples homes. Plus, the path ends abruptly forcing cyclists and pedestrians back onto the street anyways.

Basically it comes down cities planning the routes and recognizing there are different types of cyclists, and that there is a benefit to keeping the cyclists of varied groups separated from each other. eg. Road cyclists on the road, yet on a safe shoulder or bike lane, and the families and kids and casual cyclists a space they can ride and feel safe away from both cars and us crazy roadies.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I think that some of the recent projects have shown that Burnaby has seen the light. I love how they've set back the buildings in the blocks around Highgate mall to leave lovely wide walkways. And you can see the same thing around Metrotown. Unfortunately, the wide sidewalks in front of Metrotown are rather unappealing because they suffer from the same inward-facing development that's prevalent in so much of Surrey. Highgate is so much more engaging for the pedestrian.

Actually Burnaby has been doing this for years, except it is very slow going as they only do something when new developments or street pavement takes place. For example, they recently added a multi use path section to Nelson next to Bonsor and connected that to the section of BC Parkway by Imperial (this was a key addition for me allowing me to bike with my kid to MacPherson pool). They have done similar things to new townhouse development by Beresford by the MachPherson park and they seem to be doing a fancy ped / bike split sidewalk on Kingsway utilizing the new Burnaby street design by new Station Square development (although this is a very small section now, but one day they may be a bike lane on the south side of Kingsway along Metrotown/Station Square).

It seems that all the new bid developments now feature multi use path which given the lack of pedestrians around Burnaby are more then adequate for cycling.

In general I find biking through Burnaby enjoyable (as the city has much less traffic on side streets then say Vancouver) but you have to know the routes in advance and study the maps (to all avoid crazy steep hills). There are also a lot of trails through nature away from traffic which is really nice.

They could also do more to make some things easier (like traffic light buttons for cyclists and filling in short sections of missing cycling trails they disappear on you all of the sudden). But in general they are actively adding to the cycling network, albeit quietly, and without all the melodrama that happens in Vancouver. They also do not generally touch the road network, but use the extra space that Burnaby has to add to the cycling network.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

That may be true, but in this case Burnaby IS taking space away from cars and giving it to pedestrians as well as cyclists. Previously there were NO or inadequate sidewalks on either side of the street, and literally 2 metres width of gravel parking for cars on each side. The residents couldn't possibly even use it all, even those with 3 cars per house. So this is a GREAT sign for the walkability of the neighbourhood, something Burnaby as a whole has been rather crappy on, on top of the benefit to cyclists.

On top of that, it DOES work for cyclists and pedestrians to share multi use trail in the suburbs, at least for the present. This isn't the Seawall, at least not yet lol. Cyclists just have to be willing to slow down a little bit and not act like motor vehicles. The whole BC parkway between Metrotown and 22nd St is already an example of how this can work. The more difficult aspect on Rumble honestly is that homeowners will have to obey the city and not continue parking their cars on the completed multi-use trail as they are doing at present.

Where "shared trails" don't generally work is where some or all of the following apply:

-there is no directional or instructional signage for cyclists
-the "trail" is immediately flush with the roadway and constrained on the other side by poles or trees
-the trail is made out of concrete or some uneven surface material other than asphalt
-there are no crossbike/wide crosswalk treatments at intersections where roadway must be crossed
-there is no connection at all to other multi-use pathways or adequate walking infrastructure except other sidewalks
-the trail isn't actually at the recommended width for multi use pathways

There is a lot of "shared space" in Vancouver that has these features, and I agree that usually such right of ways are useless or awkwars for cyclists. But none of these conditions apply here.

That's great to hear. I don't actually know anything about the project,just wanted to vent some of my frustrations with shared use paths in general. They can definitely work well if done right, like the BC Parkway, but there are lots that have the problems you mentioned in your list.

[AverageJoe]

Don't recall seeing this here. This is CoV's 10th Avenue Corridor Project.

"PROJECT GOALS

As part of this project, we're proposing to:

- Improve comfort and accessibility for people walking and cycling, especially in busier sections around VGH
- Address safety concerns for all road users, especially at key intersections
- Accommodate the loading and access needs of adjacent businesses and institutions

We're currently gathering feedback on the 10th Avenue Corridor. Your feedback will help identify opportunities and challenges to help guide design improvements.

This project will be developed and implemented between 2015 and 2017."

[officedweller]

Probably gives an indication of what the Stanley Park Causeway railings will look like:


NS Pedal Pushers ‏@NSpedalpushers · Nov 3
Bike fence being built along Dollarton off-ramp from Ironworkers bridge in #northvan thanks to @TranBC
https://twitter.com/TranBC

[idunno]

God, that looks cheap ^^

I think the Stanley Park causeway barrier will be painted green. Or at least it was in the renders.

[Klazu]

I didn't know that they are improving the last missing piece of Seawall between Olympic Village and Cambie Bridge. The improvement seems to be adding a divider for pedestrians and cyclists.



Not sure worthwhile this will be considering that the park will eventually re-work the shoreline.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I didn't know that they are improving the last missing piece of Seawall between Olympic Village and Cambie Bridge. The improvement seems to be adding a divider for pedestrians and cyclists.

In your photo I see a work truck on the original pedestrian path, so I'm wondering if the new path to the south is just a temporary diversion while some sort of work is being done.

[Jimbo604]

-

[officedweller]

Cool.

Thanks for the info.
The new concrete curb in Klazu's shot doesn't look to have 3 metres clearance to the north of it though.

[Klazu]

Yeah, 3 meters for both is a lot, but fortunately they have plenty of space to widen Seawall. It's all still just temporary work before the park gets built.

[Klazu]

Vancitybuzz: 12 new bike lanes planned for Vancouver over 5-year timeline

Vancouver City Council is expected to approve a staff report that recommends constructing a dozen new bike lanes across the city over a five-year period.

Eight of the new routes will be within the downtown Vancouver peninsula, running on Stanley Park’s Park Drive, Bute Street, Burnaby-Drake streets, Smithe-Nelson streets, Cambie Street, West Waterfront Road within Port Metro Vancouver’s jurisdiction, Water-Alexander-Powell streets through Gastown (also known as the “Portside Greenway”), and the Granville Street Bridge.

Another four routes are located outside of the city core, on Gore Street, Hudson Street, Kent Street, and Commercial Drive.

Read more here...

[s211]

The city's concept of public engagement for this is laughably "so very Vision". The on-line access to provide commentary on their 10th Avenue study was live for something like only 2-3 days. Expect nothing better from Meggs and Co.

[Klazu]

As an avid cyclist (and also a driver), I am generally happy for these plans. The only thing that catches my eye is the plan to have a separated (?) bike lane down Nelson Street. I thought the idea was to extend the Comox bike lane down Hemlecken? Now one has to go around One Wall Centre complex unnecessarily.

If they plan on taking one lane away from both Nelson and Smithe, I hope this happens by removing road side parking, which is currently permitted and effectively makes both streets 3 lanes for through traffic already today. They have to remain that way, as two lanes is too few for these major arterial streets in and out of Downtown.

On that token they should also remove parking from one side of Howe Street, which is currently allowed on both sides, making the street effectively just two lanes out of Downtown. This is backing up cars during every afternoon rush hour.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Klazu

As an avid cyclist (and also a driver), I am generally happy for these plans. The only thing that catches my eye is the plan to have a separated (?) bike lane down Nelson Street. I thought the idea was to extend the Comox bike lane down Hemlecken? Now one has to go around One Wall Centre complex unnecessarily.

If they plan on taking one lane away from both Nelson and Smithe, I hope this happens by removing road side parking, which is currently permitted and effectively makes both streets 3 lanes for through traffic already today. They have to remain that way, as two lanes is too few for these major arterial streets in and out of Downtown.

On that token they should also remove parking from one side of Howe Street, which is currently allowed on both sides, making the street effectively just two lanes out of Downtown. This is backing up cars during every afternoon rush hour.

Even if the remove parking, it will still be dangerous on Nelson with the amount of vehicular traffic turning left or righ off Nelson. If they restrict turns it will cause gridlock trying to get out of downtown. Using Helmcken would have been a much better choice.

[idunno]

The change from Helmcken to Nelson/Smithe is interesting, but I think it works better for most people since Nelson and Smithe provide such a quick way of getting in and out of downtown (rolling green lights).

Overall, I love this plan. The number of new additions in Yaletown/Gastown is fantastic, as those neighbourhoods are a bit scary to get around (for the average person) on a bike as it is.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by idunno

The change from Helmcken to Nelson/Smithe is interesting, but I think it works better for most people since Nelson and Smithe provide such a quick way of getting in and out of downtown (rolling green lights).

I think the only congested turn on Nelson is from Nelson to Howe, where they need to have the green turn arrows on for much longer than today.

The plan also includes upgrades on Cambie Bridge, which I believe will be for the west side and will tie in with the Nelson Street bike lane.

Great to see them also moving ahead with the Granville Bridge plan. I hope they build a greenway in the middle of the bridge, as the plan was.

[officedweller]

WRT Smithe, I figure that it would take the place of curb parking on the north side of the street - but that curbside parking disappears in the morning rush hour and acts as a de facto right turn lane at Homer and Seymour (Hamilton also sees a lot of right turns). If they plan on restricting right turns to traffic light movements (like on Hornby), then Smithe traffic will really jam up in the morning rush hour and early evenings (which seems to back-up a lot too).

AS Klazu mentioned, I think that a bike lane down Nelson would be build in conjunction with the widening of the Cambie Bridge west sidewalk to accommodate a bike lane - so that may be a bit farther off in time (and likely be placed on the south side of the street. They'd probably remove the curb parking on the north side and shift the lanes over.

Originally Posted by Klazu

On that token they should also remove parking from one side of Howe Street, which is currently allowed on both sides, making the street effectively just two lanes out of Downtown. This is backing up cars during every afternoon rush hour.

Parking was ADDED to Howe to compensate for the loss of parking on Hornby when that bike lane was installed.

[Klazu]

Well, parking on Howe seems popular and is always full, but I am not sure who are these people parking there. There is nothing that exciting along south Howe that would require people coming to Downtown. If it's just commuter parking, that can always be forced to nearby parkades.

As a side note, adding bike lane on Howe had one disadvantage and that was it removing One Wall Centre tower from having any move-in parking space. It was a pain having to park in the parkade when we moved out, causing lots of walking and time wasted.