Burnaby Updates

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I figure the Save-on at the Old Orchard plaza will disappear.
Forgot about the PriceSmart.
There is an unusual concentraton of grocery stores at the mall all between Kingsway and Beresford (other than the Save-on),
rather than being distributed around the area.
That one of the odd things about Metropolis - it has grocery stores (3 of them!) with direct mall access - versus other "high end" malls.
As it becomes more of a downtown - when broken up - I expect that rents will become too expensive for grocery stores.

Did someone say "Whole Foods"*?


(*....or as it's better known,.....'Whole Wallet')

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

It's been a while since I was told about that site but I think the Save-On would stay through redevelopment

Wasn't it the Save-On that used to be in the old Station Square and the idea was that they would shift temporarily to the Orchard location while Station Square was built out with the understanding that they'd move back to their original location before Patterson decided to switch it up and make the old location (in the new Station Square) into a PriceSmart instead?


The Old Orchard square spot that it now sits on is probably a better fit - even through a redevelopment - since it doesn't have to get its customer-base cannibalized by the Superstore like used to happen in the old Station Square spot.
And PriceSmart primarily caters to a different demo so I guess it's not that bad having the 3 of them that close together.

[SpongeG]

Save-on took over a lot of old IGA locations, they have recently taken over one in Richmond.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

As it becomes more of a downtown - when broken up - I expect that rents will become too expensive for grocery stores.

That doesn't necessarily follow. Downtown Vancouver has more grocery stores than most cities I can think of - and keep adding more (Fresh Street under Vancouver House, and Loblaws CityMarket in The Post, for example). Sobey's are opening a replacement for Safeway in the new Oakridge - and that must be a seriously expensive mall.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I was going to write that I'm still miffed that Imperial is just still relegated to a version a road with no use. It would've been a great version of Denman or Davie just outside the central downtown area and serve the adjacent neighbourhoods to the south for walkable commercial on a main street, a good bridge. Is there any retail or grocers in those neighbourhoods south of Imperial now?

I just checked on google maps and Sussex from Imperial to Beresford is a 5 minute walk. It's not the end of the world that there isn't a big grocery store on Imperial (there are a few pockets of small retail).

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Are there any arts & culture spaces being proposed or recently built by development monies in Burnaby?

There's this somewhere in the planning stages.

Originally Posted by WBC

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/metr...e-burnaby-plan

Kenneth Chan
Daily Hive,
Feb 15 2021

Burnaby’s municipal government has outlined a possible direction for its ambitious plans to provide its emerging Downtown Metrotown with an events and convention centre.

City council approved the initial planning steps in Summer 2019, and over the past year city staff have been working with Chicago-based destination consulting firm Hunden Strategic Partners to establish a potential concept for the new facility.

An events and convention centre is a key feature for the city’s 2017-approved Downtown Metrotown Plan, which calls for the eventual redevelopment of Metropolis at Metrotown shopping mall. This cultural and entertainment venue is slated for existing mall property next SkyTrain’s Metrotown Station.
...

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

South of Imperial DOES need a grocery store - if for no other reason than to reduce the congestion caused by the SFH dwellers having to drive up to the mall to do their shopping.

For that matter so does the Royal Oak area since the Safeway closed down a couple of years ago.
Speaking of the Royal Oak area, that is in fact where you would find the nearest food store at least for that entire south of Imperial area in the Low Foods on Rumble and Royal Oak.
I can't think of any others nearby.

It's a great situation for the 7/11's and the mom-and-pop small groceries here and there, but those are not full-stocked grocery stores like you'd expect in an area like that and it's probably partly as a result of the presence of a Walmart and Superstore within the vicinity that no one has been incentivized to open another one anywhere else.

That Safeway was really quiet any of the times I went in there. Wholesale Club next door is still open.

Depending on where they are south of Imperial, they may well just drive to Market Crossing / Big Bend down at Marine and Byrne.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That doesn't necessarily follow. Downtown Vancouver has more grocery stores than most cities I can think of - and keep adding more (Fresh Street under Vancouver House, and Loblaws CityMarket in The Post, for example). Sobey's are opening a replacement for Safeway in the new Oakridge - and that must be a seriously expensive mall.

I'm thinking that the format will have to change.
They'll end up smaller, especially in podiums of towers on a smaller grid system (versus a mall).
... and you wouldn't generally have them under CBD office towers.
The Post is unusual because of the large floorplate.

[Lexus]

2021, November 19

Tower near Maywood Park in Metrotown. Toped up.

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

[Spr0ckets]

I don't have any photos, but I noticed while passing by on the skytrain that demolition and site clearing for this project on Wilson (the one on the left in the image below, now known as 'Nuvo' I believe) is currently underway, with demolition mostly complete (they still have to knock down a still standing concrete fireplace and chimney column flue), and with site clearing seemingly a go for these next couple of weeks in preparation for excavation.

This one could be well into construction by early next year.

Originally Posted by officedweller

From the Anthem Summer Newsletter:

https://issuu.com/anthemproperties/d...HrcvyvFw%3D%3D

Note the 63 storey tower in Metrotown (with a stupid name).
Not sure where the site might be.


https://issuu.com/anthemproperties/d...HrcvyvFw%3D%3D

Another one in the Metrotown area also just now getting into the demolition state is the one by Leddingham McCallister on Bennett ave. adjacent to the Fire House and Lobley park and just off of Nelson Ave. (next to the red building at the corner), that is currently being gutted internally in readiness for demolition probably in the next few weeks as well.

Lots of projects have really picked up momentum in the last couple of weeks, which might indicate some developer confidence in the housing market rebounding really strong from any hit it might have taken from the pandemic and lockdowns.


P.S. - also as an aside, I noticed recently on the City of Burnaby Developments page that the landlord family that owns a considerable amount of the commercial retail property along Kingsway (the McCarthy's and their WPJ McCarthy company) that everyone keeps wondering if they'll ever get redeveloped, put in a feasibility study report and masterplan proposal guideline request with the city with an eye for possible (though not likely redevelopment of that strip mall pocket between Bennett and Kingsway and just east of Nelson to Marlborough on the Eastern side. (in other words, the Dental building, the London Drugs and the TD and RBC banks).
It's not certain if they really want to go through with an actual redevelopment versus just studying to see how much FSR they could get for a rezoning to redevelop (And thus re-asses their land and property values).But that would be huge seeing as it sits right across Nelson from what would be one of the bigger redevelopment projects in the next couple of years (the Concord Metrotown project)


The precise language under the City's page listing (under REZ#18-30)
is as follows : -

(seeking to...)

"Permit a master plan and set of design guidelines for multiphased high density mixed-use development. No specific development approvals are being sought in conjunction with the proposed rezoning bylaw amendment."

.....and affects the following addresses:-

4940 Kingsway, 4900 Kingsway, 6446 Nelson
Avenue and 6450 Nelson Avenue

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

P.S. - also as an aside, I noticed recently on the City of Burnaby Developments page that the landlord family that owns a considerable amount of the commercial retail property along Kingsway (the McCarthy's and their WPJ McCarthy company) that everyone keeps wondering if they'll ever get redeveloped, put in a feasibility study report and masterplan proposal guideline request with the city with an eye for possible (though not likely redevelopment of that strip mall pocket between Bennett and Kingsway and just east of Nelson to Marlborough on the Eastern side. (in other words, the Dental building, the London Drugs and the TD and RBC banks).
It's not certain if they really want to go through with an actual redevelopment versus just studying to see how much FSR they could get for a rezoning to redevelop (And thus re-asses their land and property values).But that would be huge seeing as it sits right across Nelson from what would be one of the bigger redevelopment projects in the next couple of years (the Concord Metrotown project)


The precise language under the City's page listing (under REZ#18-30)
is as follows : -

(seeking to...)




.....and affects the following addresses:-

4940 Kingsway, 4900 Kingsway, 6446 Nelson
Avenue and 6450 Nelson Avenue

It's from 2019

https://pub-burnaby.escribemeetings....cumentId=43512

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

It's from 2019

https://pub-burnaby.escribemeetings....cumentId=43512

Oh, I missed that.

But the fact they did submit a rezoning application with an eye to a masterplan proposal (with Dialog as the design architects) is still pretty significant for a major property owner/landlord that most were never sure would ever want to redevelop any of their retail/commercial properties that currently sit on very prime sites all along Kingsway..

Maybe the pandemic and the mess of 2020 put the brakes on all of it.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I figure the Save-on at the Old Orchard plaza will disappear.
Forgot about the PriceSmart.
There is an unusual concentraton of grocery stores at the mall all between Kingsway and Beresford (other than the Save-on),
rather than being distributed around the area.
That one of the odd things about Metropolis - it has grocery stores (3 of them!) with direct mall access - versus other "high end" malls.
As it becomes more of a downtown - when broken up - I expect that rents will become too expensive for grocery stores.

No figure to support that. It could in fact be cheaper for a grocery store to operate in a new high density development, as in the case of downtown Vancouver like Changing_City brought up. Question is whether the developer will incorporate space big enough for a large supermarket there.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

No figure to support that. It could in fact be cheaper for a grocery store to operate in a new high density development, as in the case of downtown Vancouver like Changing_City brought up. Question is whether the developer will incorporate space big enough for a large supermarket there.

Cheaper how?

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Cheaper how?

Everyone knows that rent in brand new skyscrapers is cheaper than 35 year old shopping malls and 60 year old strip malls

I think Changing City's point was that more expensive rent for a commercial space in a tower podium does not preclude a grocer from renting it, not that rent is cheaper in high density developments.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Vin

No figure to support that. It could in fact be cheaper for a grocery store to operate in a new high density development, as in the case of downtown Vancouver like Changing_City brought up. Question is whether the developer will incorporate space big enough for a large supermarket there.

I'm assuming that the central core of Metrotown will include a number of office towers with retail below.
Rent would be higher in a commercial tower than in a residential tower, simply because there would be more demand with a higher density of customers (workers) than a residential tower. Even larger downtown retail spaces under office complexes (Pacific Centre, Bentall Centre, Harbour Centre, Waterfront Centre) do not have large grocery stores.
Whether or not you can get a large contiguous retail space also depends on where and how the lobby(ies), elevator core, stairwells, column-spacing, parking ramp and loading bays are laid out.
How many office towers in downtown Vancouver have a retail space big enough for a supermarket?
Usually larger retail spaces require an offset configuration to avoid tower services and functions.

[Lexus]

2021, November 22

Central Park House, on Wilson Ave 6000 block
No thread for this one yet?

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I'm assuming that the central core of Metrotown will include a number of office towers with retail below.
Rent would be higher in a commercial tower than in a residential tower, simply because there would be more demand with a higher density of customers (workers) than a residential tower. Even larger downtown retail spaces under office complexes (Pacific Centre, Bentall Centre, Harbour Centre, Waterfront Centre) do not have large grocery stores.
Whether or not you can get a large contiguous retail space also depends on where and how the lobby(ies), elevator core, stairwells, column-spacing, parking ramp and loading bays are laid out.
How many office towers in downtown Vancouver have a retail space big enough for a supermarket?
Usually larger retail spaces require an offset configuration to avoid tower services and functions.

It's quite possible that the centre of a redeveloped Metrotown might be office towers over retail, although I would have thought they would have been located closer to the station and the existing offices. If the 2019 plans are the basis the mall redevelops, the central part isn't actually redeveloped at all, but incorporated into the newly built elements around it (built in 4 phases).

The redevelopment plans also include 15,000 residential units (about a third of them rental), and starts by replacing the parking lots along Kingsway before moving onto redeveloping the existing mall, starting with the southeast corner (the Walmart/T&T Supermarket wing).

As there's an intention to have quite a bit more retail than today, it would seem reasonable to assume that the three supermarkets already in the mall would continue to exist, but not necessarily in the same locations. Given how big the site is, there could even be additional food stores - they don't all have to be Superstore sized; they could be more modest like the Pattison Nesters or Choices branded stores. It would be perfectly possible to locate those under office towers, but given the huge residential population that is planned it wouldn't even be necessary - they could all be under residential towers. The intention is to service all the retail from an underground service level, with the street level effectively pedestrianized, so servicing any location isn't a problem.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Lexus

Central Park House, on Wilson Ave 6000 block
No thread for this one yet?

Yep, there is a thread here.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

...The intention is to service all the retail from an underground service level, with the street level effectively pedestrianized, so servicing any location isn't a problem.

This would help a lot.
Ultimately, the ability to provide a grocery-sized space depends on tower placement
and the willingness of the devloper to have a massive transfer slab to create a large space maybe underground
(like Spectrum Costco downtown).

Has anyone been into the Davie St. Safeway in that Zephyr project?
It may help that it's on the 2nd floor.
Is the space chopped up a lot?

Here's the grocery store at City of Lougheed Phase 1.
It's dug into the hillside so the second elevator core doesn't need lobby space, etc. around it.

[jollyburger]

The Davie Safeway looks pretty unobstructed

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/commi...appendix-c.PDF