Burnaby Updates

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Vin

Another one without commercial spaces! That's a huge mistake. This will turn this area of Metrotown into a boring bedroom community. Can't be a proper downtown when you don't provide the kind of convenience found in most city centre streets.

Vin, there is a huge shopping mall a few blocks away. The mall will always suck the life out of the neighbourhood. Have you looked at the wonderful retail strip along Beresford? It's as sterile as it gets.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

More proposals for Metrotown by Belford.
Some of them had been proposed earlier back in 2017 but they were slowed/stalled by the slowdown in the Housing market and the pandemic.
Looks like they've come back to life.
A couple of them we talked about not that long ago a little while back (The Silver Ave. one which was tagged as 'Sun Towers 3' - perhaps they're not going with that labelling anymore - and the Telford rental, which I did speculate would be a rental because I thought it might end up being the de facto Sun Towers 4, and you can't be labelling a market tower "4" anything in BC and hope to get any sales. Looks like I was half-right. The M Spa Residences proposal (The McKay and Cassie Avenues Tower) has also been previously mentioned sometime far back):-






6630 Telford Avenue
31-storey market & non-market rental tower & a 15-storey market rental tower




6433 McKay Avenue and 6366 Cassie Avenue
a 39-storey condo tower





6444 Silver Avenue
a 41-storey condo tower




4355 Maywood Street
a 32-storey condo tower




Source: -

https://vancouvermarket.ca/2021/11/1...for-metrotown/

These developments are probly benefiting from the densities that seem to rise every year. Even along Maywood Street, you are seeing a development with nearly 8 FSR. The densities are great and all, but how are all these people going to get around with Metrotown in the way?

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by logan5

These developments are probly benefiting from the densities that seem to rise every year. Even along Maywood Street, you are seeing a development with nearly 8 FSR. The densities are great and all, but how are all these people going to get around with Metrotown in the way?

That sounds like the Real Estate and Housing equivalent of 'First World Problems'.

By "Metrotown" I assume you mean the mall, because last I checked people who live in Metrotown have been able to navigate their way around (and through) the mall just fine - even with increased foot and car traffic from mall visitors who don't live in the area and commuters transiting and transferring via the Bus loop and Skytrain station.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

That sounds like the Real Estate and Housing equivalent of 'First World Problems'.

By "Metrotown" I assume you mean the mall, because last I checked people who live in Metrotown have been able to navigate their way around (and through) the mall just fine - even with increased foot and car traffic from mall visitors who don't live in the area and commuters transiting and transferring via the Bus loop and Skytrain station.

Maybe right now is ok, though driving along Kingsway, it really slows to a crawl around Metrotown.

At the rate Metrotown Centre is going, there will be 70 000 people living in area the same size as the West End. That has to have an adverse effect on traffic when the mall blocks off a huge amount of north/south travel. They will have to widen Kingsway and Willingdon to 5 lanes, and have double or even triple left turn lanes. (which I think is physically impossible.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by logan5

Maybe right now is ok, though driving along Kingsway, it really slows to a crawl around Metrotown.

At the rate Metrotown Centre is going, there will be 70 000 people living in area the same size as the West End. That has to have an adverse effect on traffic when the mall blocks off a huge amount of north/south travel. They will have to widen Kingsway and Willingdon to 5 lanes, and have double or even triple left turn lanes. (which I think is physically impossible.

There are no plans to widen Kingsway based on my understanding of the Metrotown plan.

If Metrotown has that many residents, I assume that a portion of the mall will have been redeveloped into commercial and office spaces. Metrotown isn't only planning on adding people, it plans to add jobs as well so that those residents don't have to go anywhere for work.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by logan5

Maybe right now is ok, though driving along Kingsway, it really slows to a crawl around Metrotown.

I wouldn't use Kingsway - it's the same as Broadway in Vnacouver - too many traffic lights.
I'd take Maywood or Imperial to Willingdon or Boundary northbound if headed north and west.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Vin

Another one without commercial spaces! That's a huge mistake. This will turn this area of Metrotown into a boring bedroom community. Can't be a proper downtown when you don't provide the kind of convenience found in most city centre streets.

Very little mixed use is planned to the south-west of Central Avenue. Most of the mixed-use zoning is on the footprint of the current mall, and on the other side of Kingsway.

I don't see a difference between this and downtown Vancouver, where comprehensive development changes to residential zoning once you cross Thurlow. I don't think West End is boring at all, and it provides the population base to fill up all of the shops, restaurants, and offices in Downtown.

The shops lining Beresford, together with the commercial spaces along Imperial provide plenty of convenience for the future residents of Maywood.

[officedweller]

Agreed.
West End has towers in the park and Downtown South have townhouse podiums.
It would, however, be good if there was a commercial podium on or south of Beresford that could house a supermarket or drug store,
for the eventuality of the mall being demolished or whittled down in size.
I suppose the T&T and the Wal-Mart are on the south side of Metropolis at present, but maybe something on Maywood or Imperial?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by logan5

Maybe right now is ok, though driving along Kingsway, it really slows to a crawl around Metrotown.

At the rate Metrotown Centre is going, there will be 70 000 people living in area the same size as the West End. That has to have an adverse effect on traffic when the mall blocks off a huge amount of north/south travel. They will have to widen Kingsway and Willingdon to 5 lanes, and have double or even triple left turn lanes. (which I think is physically impossible.

The long term plan is to break the mall up into towers with retail podiums, with multi roads crossing the site. It's been posted on here before.

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

There are no plans to widen Kingsway based on my understanding of the Metrotown plan.

If Metrotown has that many residents, I assume that a portion of the mall will have been redeveloped into commercial and office spaces. Metrotown isn't only planning on adding people, it plans to add jobs as well so that those residents don't have to go anywhere for work.

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Very little mixed use is planned to the south-west of Central Avenue. Most of the mixed-use zoning is on the footprint of the current mall, and on the other side of Kingsway.

I don't see a difference between this and downtown Vancouver, where comprehensive development changes to residential zoning once you cross Thurlow. I don't think West End is boring at all, and it provides the population base to fill up all of the shops, restaurants, and offices in Downtown.

The shops lining Beresford, together with the commercial spaces along Imperial provide plenty of convenience for the future residents of Maywood.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by logan5

Maybe right now is ok, though driving along Kingsway, it really slows to a crawl around Metrotown.

At the rate Metrotown Centre is going, there will be 70 000 people living in area the same size as the West End. That has to have an adverse effect on traffic when the mall blocks off a huge amount of north/south travel. They will have to widen Kingsway and Willingdon to 5 lanes, and have double or even triple left turn lanes. (which I think is physically impossible.

Sounds more like a problem for people who are driving and passing THROUGH Metrotown rather than who actually live in the area (The 'Downtown Core' area and not the surrounding SFH residential packets, that is).

People who live in Metrotown - assuming they work outside the area like in Downtown Vancouver or other regions - tend not to drive in and out as a daily means of getting around. I mean why would you, when you live within a stone's throw of the second largest Skytrain hub in the non-Downtown area, as well as the most frequented Bus Loop.
Of course, weekends and evening chores that require driving would be problematic, but again, if you live in the area you're more likely to use other routes that are faster with fewer lights (or at least better spread out) - and with no Bus stops - like Imperial and Maywood and even Grange to get back and forth rather than through or on Kingsway itself.

And besides which, even with all these new developments being proposed, with the build-out time it typically takes, it's going to take a while before the Downtown 'core' area will get to the same or similar population density (and concurrent traffic issues) as a West End or even a New West.

Yes, the City will probably be forced to re-asses how some of the traffic routes (like Willingdon) are currently situated to handle increased traffic and they might even make changes in concert with any Translink modifications (like if they add a future Metrotown-Brentwood-Hastings-North Shore expansion line for Skytrain or LRT, for instance)..

Which is why I said this seems more like the equivalent or 'First World problems' for a city to deal with or worry about, over whether there's too many people now (or will be in 40-80 years).
Hopefully, they're planning for it.


P.S. and none of this even factors the mall owners own plans to eventually break up the mall, which if they do carry through with it would conceivably add more north-south arteries (depending on how they do it).
But that's another 80-90 year build-out by their own proposed timeline.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Agreed.
West End has towers in the park and Downtown South have townhouse podiums.
It would, however, be good if there was a commercial podium on or south of Beresford that could house a supermarket or drug store,
for the eventuality of the mall being demolished or whittled down in size.
I suppose the T&T and the Wal-Mart are on the south side of Metropolis at present, but maybe something on Maywood or Imperial?

I live on Beresford, so I don't have the extra couple blocks to walk that some of the Maywood residents closer to Imperial do, but with the Kingsway Save On, Price Smart in Station Square, Wal-mart, T&T, and Superstore in the mall, and the wet market in the Crystal Mall, there are plenty of grocery options.

Something on Imperial could serve the residents south of Imperial, but that's all SFH and I think those people likely drive to work so having a grocer in walking distance may not be as important.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Agreed.
West End has towers in the park and Downtown South have townhouse podiums.
It would, however, be good if there was a commercial podium on or south of Beresford that could house a supermarket or drug store,
for the eventuality of the mall being demolished or whittled down in size.
I suppose the T&T and the Wal-Mart are on the south side of Metropolis at present, but maybe something on Maywood or Imperial?

I was going to write that I'm still miffed that Imperial is just still relegated to a version a road with no use. It would've been a great version of Denman or Davie just outside the central downtown area and serve the adjacent neighbourhoods to the south for walkable commercial on a main street, a good bridge. Is there any retail or grocers in those neighbourhoods south of Imperial now?

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I live on Beresford, so I don't have the extra couple blocks to walk that some of the Maywood residents closer to Imperial do, but with the Kingsway Save On, Price Smart in Station Square, Wal-mart, T&T, and Superstore in the mall, and the wet market in the Crystal Mall, there are plenty of grocery options.

Something on Imperial could serve the residents south of Imperial, but that's all SFH and I think those people likely drive to work so having a grocer in walking distance may not be as important.

Couldn't have wrote it better and thanks for your comments as a local. As a developer look at this plan I was just so disappointed and confused

[GenWhy?]

Are there any arts & culture spaces being proposed or recently built by development monies in Burnaby?

[djmk]

Originally Posted by squeezied

And you wonder why people ridicule you...

Although it's a weird comment, he is not that far off base

Burnaby has about 2.25 X more "financial assets" than vancouver while having about 37% of the population.

Burnaby is loaded with cash and investments. The city does not spend it's money. About $1.8 billion. Maybe a bit more now.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I was going to write that I'm still miffed that Imperial is just still relegated to a version a road with no use. It would've been a great version of Denman or Davie just outside the central downtown area and serve the adjacent neighbourhoods to the south for walkable commercial on a main street, a good bridge. Is there any retail or grocers in those neighbourhoods south of Imperial now?

South of Imperial DOES need a grocery store - if for no other reason than to reduce the congestion caused by the SFH dwellers having to drive up to the mall to do their shopping.

For that matter so does the Royal Oak area since the Safeway closed down a couple of years ago.
Speaking of the Royal Oak area, that is in fact where you would find the nearest food store at least for that entire south of Imperial area in the Low Foods on Rumble and Royal Oak.
I can't think of any others nearby.

It's a great situation for the 7/11's and the mom-and-pop small groceries here and there, but those are not full-stocked grocery stores like you'd expect in an area like that and it's probably partly as a result of the presence of a Walmart and Superstore within the vicinity that no one has been incentivized to open another one anywhere else.

[GenWhy?]

Damn that's what I thought. Always forget about Rumble & Oak. Be curious to see Staff do an update proposal as Metrotown gets built out, more commuters, more car congestion. Maybe they'll add more local retail options.

[officedweller]

I figure the Save-on at the Old Orchard plaza will disappear.
Forgot about the PriceSmart.
There is an unusual concentraton of grocery stores at the mall all between Kingsway and Beresford (other than the Save-on),
rather than being distributed around the area.
That one of the odd things about Metropolis - it has grocery stores (3 of them!) with direct mall access - versus other "high end" malls.
As it becomes more of a downtown - when broken up - I expect that rents will become too expensive for grocery stores.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I figure the Save-on at the Old Orchard plaza will disappear.
Forgot about the PriceSmart.
There is an unusual concentraton of grocery stores at the mall all between Kingsway and Beresford (other than the Save-on),
rather than being distributed around the area.
That one of the odd things about Metropolis - it has grocery stores (3 of them!) with direct mall access - versus other "high end" malls.
As it becomes more of a downtown - when broken up - I expect that rents will become too expensive for grocery stores.

It's been a while since I was told about that site but I think the Save-On would stay through redevelopment

[davee930]

[IMG]DJI_0592 by davee930, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DJI_0641 by davee930, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DJI_0709 by davee930, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DJI_0957 by davee930, on Flickr[/IMG]