Highways in Canada

[le calmar]

If you were talking about local backroads, how can you improve the situation in Eastern Ontario? You can't really give numbers to such roads... Or maybe it's me who don't understand, but in Quebec we have Autoroute (numbered), provincial roads/highways (numbered) and then local roads (names).

[eemy]

In Ontario, you also have County or Regional Roads, which are typically numbered as well outside of urban areas.

[Horus]

Topography is a big issue in Eastern Ontario, save for the far eastern part of the province (Cornwall and area)

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

The 400-series policy includes several things, including a minimum highway length of something like 25km, (unless the highway connects two other 400-series highways, such as the 409, or future 412), no grade level crossings (with minor exceptions for remote wilderness roads such as the 400), and mandates at least four lanes of traffic (two per direction)..

The 420 in Niagara Falls clearly doesn't meet any of this criteria.

On second thought, it leads to an international border, so it may be able to be argued to meet the criteria.

Were there ever any intentions of extending the 420?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Duke-Of-Waterloo

The 420 in Niagara Falls clearly doesn't meet any of this criteria.

On second thought, it leads to an international border, so it may be able to be argued to meet the criteria.

Were there ever any intentions of extending the 420?

I have heard of the possibility of a westerly extension of Highway 420. Whether it ever gets built is a whole other matter.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

In Ontario, you also have County or Regional Roads, which are typically numbered as well outside of urban areas.

This is where Ontario is different from Quebec. Ontario's county/regional road system is a confusing mess of duplicated numbers (sometimes duplicated with nearby King's Highways), numbers that change at county boundaries, and widely different design standards from one county to another. Ontario is the only province in Canada with such a system (not counting Winnipeg's numbered city road network).

While navigation on Ontario's county roads and regional roads is theoretically not difficult for dedicated road geeks like myself, it is very confusing to the average driver - I've been a driver with far too many passengers over the years who tell me I've made a wrong turn because either the county road we've just passed is the same as the King's Highway we're supposed to be on, or the number has changed at a county boundary and they think we're on a different road.

I've worked in marketing long enough to know that you need to make things simple enough to understand for the average user of a product or service - just because the people who design something understand it doesn't mean the average Joe will. Navigation on secondary roads in Quebec is much easier because when you see the number, you can look at a map and know exactly what road you're on and not have to pick from four different County Road 3 routes in a 100-km radius. I've talked about this with someone in the ivory towers of the MTO several times, and he is mystified at how people don't understand the system that's there now.

It's not the most pressing problem in Ontario these days, but I do believe Ontario needs a proper Secondary Highway network like what Northern Ontario and almost every other province has.

[eemy]

I suspect that the issue is that county roads are, in theory, supposed to be used primarily as local routes, in which case having a cohesive numbering system province-wide isn't necessary. If the MTO were to acknowledge that this is problematic, they would also be acknowledging that the county road in question is actually more than just a local/regional road and therefore should be under provincial jurisdiction, receive provincial funding, and be a full-fledged highway. They were far too enthusiastic in downloading highways in the 90s, unfortunately, and now a lot of these routes are in the confusing disorganized state they are as a result.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I suspect that the issue is that county roads are, in theory, supposed to be used primarily as local routes, in which case having a cohesive numbering system province-wide isn't necessary. If the MTO were to acknowledge that this is problematic, they would also be acknowledging that the county road in question is actually more than just a local/regional road and therefore should be under provincial jurisdiction, receive provincial funding, and be a full-fledged highway. They were far too enthusiastic in downloading highways in the 90s, unfortunately, and now a lot of these routes are in the confusing disorganized state they are as a result.

Arguably, many of the "secondary highways" in other provinces serve only a local purpose and are roughly equivalent to county/regional roads in Ontario.

[Innsertnamehere]

There are MTO run highways like most of Highway 48 that should be local roads, and many local roads that should be provincial like 169, the downloaded part of 48, etc.

[Mister F]

Is there any other jurisdiction where most of the highway network is owned and operated by local governments?

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I've talked about this with someone in the ivory towers of the MTO several times, and he is mystified at how people don't understand the system that's there now.

MTO really does live in a bubble.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Is there any other jurisdiction where most of the highway network is owned and operated by local governments? MTO really does live in a bubble.

by local governments, you mean cities or the provincial government ?

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

by local governments, you mean cities or the provincial government ?

Counties and regional municipalities. Each county and region maintains something like 500-1000 km of county/regional roads. Much bigger than the provincial highway system.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Duke-Of-Waterloo

The 420 in Niagara Falls clearly doesn't meet any of this criteria.

On second thought, it leads to an international border, so it may be able to be argued to meet the criteria.

Were there ever any intentions of extending the 420?

At one point, provincial jurisdiction over Hwy 420 extended right the way east of Stanley Street to the foot of the Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls, but the 420 has never been a full-fledged freeway. In fact, prior to its most recent reconstruction in 2003 or so, east of Stanley Street, Hwy 420 was fronted by quite a number of both residential and commercial properties.

Niagara Falls has seemed to have reserved some land for a Hwy 420 extension through the western boundaries of its city, so the extension of the 420 west of Niagara Falls must exist in either its or the Region of Niagara's Official Plan.



The most up-to-date conceptual alignments for the Welland to QEW section of the MidPen seem to favour a more southerly alignment than tying into the 420 interchange. If the MidPen is indeed built on a more southern alignment, I can't see the need to do both that and extend the 420 to the west.

[FrAnKs]

Are they going to destroy the houses ?

[Innsertnamehere]

looks like they would have to demo a couple of houses, yes. Its no worse than a couple of other planned projects around the province, the North Bay expressway needs a bunch of houses ripped out as well.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Is there any other jurisdiction where most of the highway network is owned and operated by local governments?

Prior to the early 2000s, I understand that all of Alberta's "secondary" highway network was owned and maintained by the municipalities, but the numbering was administered provincially; Alberta later assumed control of that network. New Brunswick reportedly had a county road network prior to the 1960s as well. I'm not sure what Quebec's 200- and 300-series roads were originally.

The only province not to have a Secondary Highway network of some sort at all is BC. It appears that there are a lot of municipal roads in the rural parts of the Lower Mainland that feed into provincial highways.

Many U.S. states have numbered county roads, although at least in New York they appear to be more minor, local roads than many of the ones we see in Ontario.

[Innsertnamehere]

401 extension in Windsor is finishing up:


Aerial Photos December 2014 by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr

[FrAnKs]

wonderful ! When is the Whole Windsor Essex parkway supposed to open ?

[speedog]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Prior to the early 2000s, I understand that all of Alberta's "secondary" highway network was owned and maintained by the municipalities, but the numbering was administered provincially; Alberta later assumed control of that network. New Brunswick reportedly had a county road network prior to the 1960s as well. I'm not sure what Quebec's 200- and 300-series roads were originally.

The only province not to have a Secondary Highway network of some sort at all is BC. It appears that there are a lot of municipal roads in the rural parts of the Lower Mainland that feed into provincial highways.

Many U.S. states have numbered county roads, although at least in New York they appear to be more minor, local roads than many of the ones we see in Ontario.

One thing that needs to be noted is that for any highway that runs through a city/town/municipality in B.C., the province maintains that highway. If a storm brings down a tree onto highway 97 in Kelowna, then that fallen tree will remain there until a provincial highways maintenance crew gets there to remove it that or at least that's the way it used to be - the city of Kelowna street maintenance people won't touch that tree or at least that's the way it used to be in B.C.. Made for some real messed up situations.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

401 extension in Windsor is finishing up:


Aerial Photos December 2014 by Rt. Hon. Herb Gray Parkway, on Flickr

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the purpose of tunnels like the Oliver Estates Tunnel? What exactly are they tunnelling under?

I've read that 'the tunnels will provide community connections for the first time while restoring natural linkages' but the Oliver Estates Tunnel doesn't appear to do this at all as the one side of the top portion of this tunnel just terminates at a 4 lane roadway or is this 4 lane roadway supposed to disappear?

edit - answered my own questions here, link.