Ride-hailing in Metro Vancouver: Uber, Lyft, Sidecar - emerging technologies

[Tetsuo]

The Taxi cartel has had years to improve themselves with the looming threat of UBER/LYFT, could have seen other jurisdictions and plan a good defense strategy.

Instead they kept the status quo (problems WarrenC pointed out) and instead focused their energy and resources fighting against the inevitable

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

The Taxi cartel has had years to improve themselves with the looming threat of UBER/LYFT, could have seen other jurisdictions and plan a good defense strategy.

Instead they kept the status quo (problems WarrenC pointed out) and instead focused their energy and resources fighting against the inevitable

That's basically every entrenched, well-connected monopoly in human history. Why change your business to fit the market? Why not just change the market to fit your business?

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

And as to why it's failing in Japan:


Remember folks... Uber is not some white knight coming in to rescue us from the taxi lobby. They are a large business that makes a LOT of money and breaks laws and wages PR campaigns against the government to change laws to become more favorable to them. While this is pretty much an SOP for business in the west, it's not like there aren't side effects when you go against the rule of law. Look at what AirBnB has done to places where it has entered. It's made these places cheaper for travelers, but much more expensive and aggravating for residents.

It's the Walmart/Costco effect there. Outside of North America, is not North America. After seeing the kind of destruction of local business, some countries and cities (including Vancouver) don't let big box stores in because the car culture doesn't really exist outside North America except for some semi-rural cities.

A city that is well-connected with infrastructure, transit, etc doesn't need these massive, inefficient warehouse-stores to drive to.

Uber/Lyft and similar issues with the skip-the-dishes model, so instead of YOU driving to the restaurant, you dispatch someone to pick up your order an drop it off, it's about the same amount of road miles either way. So in cities where you can actually just walk to these places, that business model is completely unnecessary.

Every time I visited Seattle, the people I was with used these kinds of services, despite the city having a not-unreasable transit system. Why not go out? Less noise.

Like I actually predict the direct outcome being "kitchen-only" restaurants. People won't go out to eat, because they can get the food delivered. Restaurants with deeper pockets like McDonalds, KFC, and Pizza places can just hire their own drivers for their baseline service, and Uber Eats/Skip/etc top up the baseline service during peak periods.

But is that sustainable? No, absolutely not. I think what ultimately is going to be proposed at some point is a form of "last mile" parcel delivery and transit that the "Uber" drivers will fill, and there will be a centralization of kitchens somewhere in the city where normally you'd have a shopping mall. That would make things much more efficient as one driver could pick up multiple deliveries heading in the same direction.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

The Taxi cartel has had years to improve themselves with the looming threat of UBER/LYFT, could have seen other jurisdictions and plan a good defense strategy.

Instead they kept the status quo (problems WarrenC pointed out) and instead focused their energy and resources fighting against the inevitable

And there seems to be a different raison du jour each time the taxi lobby group is interviewed. Today it was "Uber/Lyft won't be obligated to pick up passengers with disabilities". Which is maybe partially true, but I doubt they'd want the bad publicity and/or they will have some form of operating procedure around this. Add in the fact that a quick Google shows a good 10-15 reported incidents in the past year of cabs, both here, and in other major cities that already have ride-hailing, refusing to pick up people in wheelchairs, or stranding them for hours at the side of the road waiting for a taxi to show up. Global interviewed some folks on how terrible cab service is in this city for people with disabilities just three weeks ago.

Can't get much worse. And honestly that's the overriding theme here when you look at how taxis are in Vancouver -- can't get much worse. Ride-hailing is not going to fix anything but at least people will have choice.

[Xerx]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Like I actually predict the direct outcome being "kitchen-only" restaurants. People won't go out to eat, because they can get the food delivered. Restaurants with deeper pockets like McDonalds, KFC, and Pizza places can just hire their own drivers for their baseline service, and Uber Eats/Skip/etc top up the baseline service during peak periods.

But is that sustainable? No, absolutely not. I think what ultimately is going to be proposed at some point is a form of "last mile" parcel delivery and transit that the "Uber" drivers will fill, and there will be a centralization of kitchens somewhere in the city where normally you'd have a shopping mall. That would make things much more efficient as one driver could pick up multiple deliveries heading in the same direction.

That's already a thing, at least in the UK. They're called 'dark kitchens', which are basically just want you said set up in warehouses or car parks with shipping containers converted into kitchens. The earliest article I could find on it goes back to 2017, which would not surprise me since when I lived there in 2016-2017 these services were fairly popular(and more popular back than over there than it seemed to me in Vancouver). It's still a big thing over there now, with companies like Deliveroo having their own kitchens and giving that over to restaurants.

[WarrenC12]

Isn't that basically what Domino's is? Let's not assume we're reinventing the wheel here. 20 years ago there was no such thing as seating in most pizza places.

[cairnstone]

There is already a handful of Kitchen only Restaurants operating in Metro Vancouver area. There was an article a while back that coined them ghost kitchens.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ghost-kitchen-calgary-1.4989791


I believe that Joseph Richards group has already opened one with another one in the works.

Had another group inquire about a renovation to an existing commecial kitchen. It's not much different than the food trucks. As most of them are all interconnected and use a common kitchen. Happened to find my self in a commercial development on the east side and the parking lot was full of different food trucks. They all used space in a commercial space designed for rent to others

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by bluefox

And there seems to be a different raison du jour each time the taxi lobby group is interviewed. Today it was "Uber/Lyft won't be obligated to pick up passengers with disabilities". Which is maybe partially true, but I doubt they'd want the bad publicity and/or they will have some form of operating procedure around this. Add in the fact that a quick Google shows a good 10-15 reported incidents in the past year of cabs, both here, and in other major cities that already have ride-hailing, refusing to pick up people in wheelchairs, or stranding them for hours at the side of the road waiting for a taxi to show up. Global interviewed some folks on how terrible cab service is in this city for people with disabilities just three weeks ago.

Can't get much worse. And honestly that's the overriding theme here when you look at how taxis are in Vancouver -- can't get much worse. Ride-hailing is not going to fix anything but at least people will have choice.

I know people with disabilities in other cities absolutely depend on uber/lyft, if I'm not mistaken the drivers get an added bonus/premium for having a wheelchair accessible vehicle.

Meanwhile people I know here end up waiting minimum 30/60 mins for a wheelchair usable cab, and that's if they show up. Requires so much planning, better off booking a handydart weeks in advance

[casper]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

There is already a handful of Kitchen only Restaurants operating in Metro Vancouver area. There was an article a while back that coined them ghost kitchens.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ghost-kitchen-calgary-1.4989791


I believe that Joseph Richards group has already opened one with another one in the works.

Had another group inquire about a renovation to an existing commecial kitchen. It's not much different than the food trucks. As most of them are all interconnected and use a common kitchen. Happened to find my self in a commercial development on the east side and the parking lot was full of different food trucks. They all used space in a commercial space designed for rent to others

On a recent trip down to Vegas I had a meeting with these guys..... Interesting concept. Think of it as a mobile kitchen (in the same sense as a mobile home). Renting a couple of stalls in a parking lot is a lot more cost effective than commercial property.

https://www.kitchenpodular.com/

The next step with the technology is to combine it with digital lockers, https://www.omnioninc.com/ to provide self-serve pickup.


What is interesting is on the software side the two leading providers of software to run these types of operations are both out of BC. Monkey Media (https://monkeymediasoftware.com/) does a lot with major food services brands, while Mighty Oaks (https://mightyoaks.com/) does a lot with delivery, groceries and lockers.

[cairnstone]

Yup this city is full of amazing small tech companies that bring amazing tech that is all behind the scene. I have seen a documentary on the container style kitchen where they go one step further than a food truck. There market was seasonal tourist markets. Where at the end of the season they could relocate with ease.

All new developments have package mail boxes now so that Canada post can leave your package at your lobby secured. Food delivery has become again a big market so wont be long and you will see a refrigerated storage outside of buildings so that you can order your food and it will be dropped off 24 7 in a locker located in the lobby of your building as that way you can make use of the shared economy and get better value. Instead of the current work week.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Yup this city is full of amazing small tech companies that bring amazing tech that is all behind the scene. I have seen a documentary on the container style kitchen where they go one step further than a food truck. There market was seasonal tourist markets. Where at the end of the season they could relocate with ease.

All new developments have package mail boxes now so that Canada post can leave your package at your lobby secured. Food delivery has become again a big market so wont be long and you will see a refrigerated storage outside of buildings so that you can order your food and it will be dropped off 24 7 in a locker located in the lobby of your building as that way you can make use of the shared economy and get better value. Instead of the current work week.

Our tour of Larco's project on Davie (English Bay Residences) next to London Drugs has exactly that. Refrigerated mail room for food deliveries. Parcel rooms are changing with the times, for sure.

[WarrenC12]

Well, today's the day. In theory ridesharing companies can operate as of Sept 16. I fired up my Uber app and see no rides yet... Any idea on a realistic ETA? I'm guessing they are all still in the license application process?

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well, today's the day. In theory ridesharing companies can operate as of Sept 16. I fired up my Uber app and see no rides yet... Any idea on a realistic ETA? I'm guessing they are all still in the license application process?

It may still take time.

The app itself says "Uber is not available in your area" right now. The app was last updated 2 days ago (14th.)

[CanSpice]

White Rock has joined Surrey and Richmond as being opposed to horseless carr... er, I mean ride-hailing.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

White Rock has joined Surrey and Richmond as being opposed to horseless carr... er, I mean ride-hailing.

I don’t see what these councils expect to gain from this opposition. People hate taxis. They want ride-share desperately and are sick of waiting. I hope voters have long enough memories and get rid of them in the next election.

[LeftCoaster]

They're making a bunch of noise to appease taxi donors but know they have no power over the situation and that voters will forget in 3 years because nothing will happen since the province has already made it's decision.

I can tell you the City of Richmond is very much getting ready for ride hailing in all their new planning policies.

[s211]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I can tell you the City of Richmond is very much getting ready for ride hailing in all their new planning policies.

In arrears though, in a sense, since there've been a few Chinese-language ride sharing operations existing for some time already.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

They're making a bunch of noise to appease taxi donors but know they have no power over the situation and that voters will forget in 3 years because nothing will happen since the province has already made it's decision.

I can tell you the City of Richmond is very much getting ready for ride hailing in all their new planning policies.

Sure, but virtue signalling so early means that taxi donors'll forget about it too.

[SpongeG]

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[SpongeG]

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