Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[Klazu]

There was also this incident recently (from VCB).

• Video Link

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by logan5

After watching the video, I would give the cyclist (the one that slammed on the breaks) the benefit of the doubt, but it wouldn't surprise me if he knew what was about to happen. I use to ride a lot and was pretty good at anticipating what a driver was about to do.

I don't think so. He's looking straight ahead and keeps pedalling up until he's forced to swerve.

[spm2013]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

I don't think so. He's looking straight ahead and keeps pedalling up until he's forced to swerve.

And he doesn't grab the brakes until the last minute which would tend to make me side with your story, though I still think he probably saw her driving in the cycling lane.

[logan5]

I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but here's the thing - he had to have seen her driving down the bike path, so he knows this driver is confused about bike paths. He then races ahead of the guy in front of him with the camera just in time to intercept the car, then he breaks hard well after the car has started to turn. If he was really surprised and startled, it would have taken him a few seconds to collect himself, but no, he had an aggressive F bomb loaded and ready to fire a split second after the incident.

I live in a neighbourhood with a lot of cyclists and I know they like to play games with drivers by instigating a close call, so I tend to have my doubts.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by spm2013

Well he appeared out of nowhere so I'm pretty sure he saw the part of her driving down the bike lane.

...and her right turn signal was on for a few seconds before she hit him. (Edit - ...almost hit him).

She should have looked and not crossed the bike lane with cyclists (including the one shooting the movie) approaching - but on the other hand the potential accident was completely avoidable by the cyclist if he'd been paying attention.

"It was her fault" is faint consolation if you're laid up in the hospital with a broken leg or worse.

[spm2013]

What's the fine if a cyclist blows through a red light? Not that anyone has ever received a ticket for it, but curious.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by spm2013

What's the fine if a cyclist blows through a red light? Not that anyone has ever received a ticket for it, but curious.

Since bicycles are governed by the same motor vehicle act as automobiles and are assigned the same rights and responsibilities I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be the same as the fine for an automobile.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by Klazu

There was also this incident recently (from VCB).

• Video Link

Not sure why VCB would even post something like this. Sounds like the cyclist was doing a pretty good job at provoking the situation.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by theKB

Not sure why VCB would even post something like this. Sounds like the cyclist was doing a pretty good job at provoking the situation.

I can't tell anything from that clip. But my observation is that it usually takes two to tango.

[a very long weekend]

Originally Posted by logan5

I live in a neighbourhood with a lot of cyclists and I know they like to play games with drivers by instigating a close call...

such a fanatical thing to think/say. seems like there's this 'reefer madness'-style campaign in some quarters against using a bicycle to get oneself safely from one place to another. as if the whole point of cycling is to immiserate and annoy the middle/lower middle class (or in less old school terms, the under 100k over 40k set).

[AverageJoe]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

She should have looked and not crossed the bike lane with cyclists (including the one shooting the movie) approaching - but on the other hand the potential accident was completely avoidable by the cyclist if he'd been paying attention.

In the driver's defence, I have tried several times doing right turns across Dunsmuir and Burrard. It is nearly impossible to do a proper shoulder check because of all the planters and bushes between the bike lane and the road. 3 of the 4 times I've tried, I stopped and tried to see if there were any cyclists speeding across from a distance and as a result I waited and waited to try to be sure, only to have impatient drivers behind me scream bloody murder.

That part of Burrard is a death trap due to cyclists' speeds. You need eagle eyes to shoulder check at that distance and anticipate the cyclist's arrival time as you turn. Dunsmuir has its own problems with much of the bike lane in the shade most of the time making it very difficult to see, much less anticipate.

As a cyclist who lives downtown I came across this problem quite a few times. But as a driver as well, it's hard for me to blame the driver for the near-accident. As a result I've avoided turning right across any downtown bike lanes anymore, even if it meant going the long route. It's too stressful.

[theKB]

So basically what you are saying is that the bike lanes are poorly designed and result in danger to both cyclists AND drivers.

It honestly seems like all the bike infrastructure was rushed/pushed through and not properly thought out. In some areas it results in situations that are potentially more dangerous especially with planters that are not maintained and can become overgrown. Although the same can be said for some of the boulevards (2nd and cambie) or any of the sidewalk bubbles that have shrubs growing on them, most notably in the fairview slopes area where the hills are steeper and the shrubs all but blocking the view down the hill.

Another one that has created a bottleneck/danger is the main street entrance to the viaduct heading into downtown.

It amazes me that the city puts in those planters down the bike lanes and then neglects to care for them. I would think that a barrier/curb would be enough.

I personally think the separated lanes all need to be ripped up, redesigned and re-evaluated.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by theKB

So basically what you are saying is that the bike lanes are poorly designed and result in danger to both cyclists AND drivers.

I personally think the separated lanes all need to be ripped up, redesigned and re-evaluated.

They're properly designed for the people Vision is pandering to. Slow cyclists. If you're derping along at 15km/h they're great.

If you're going fast the bike lanes are pretty dangerous. When you near car speeds you may as well operate in traffic, as you're more visible and have more options to escape situations like in that video. I tend to average 30 km/h on my road bike and subsequently avoid the bike paths and ride on bike streets.

Shoulder checking also really doesn't work at those angles and speeds as most cars have a large blind spot directly where that cyclist was coming from. Drivers also tend to assume right turns are always legal, so on right hand bike lanes you have a lot of people do illegal or dangerous rights. In my opinion the bike lanes should be on the left hand side of 1 way streets. You get better visibility and the drivers will make less assumptions about the legality/priority of turns.

That would apply to Dunsmuir and Hornby, although implementation would be rather difficult. Burrard however is a death trap any way you lay it out, escpecially with the bike/bus combo lanes.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by AverageJoe

In the driver's defence, I have tried several times doing right turns across Dunsmuir and Burrard. It is nearly impossible to do a proper shoulder check because of all the planters and bushes between the bike lane and the road. 3 of the 4 times I've tried, I stopped and tried to see if there were any cyclists speeding across from a distance and as a result I waited and waited to try to be sure, only to have impatient drivers behind me scream bloody murder.

You might stop and try to shoulder check, but the driver in the video clearly does not. Who cares what the drivers behind you think, is it worth nearly killing someone just to appease some impatient idiot behind you?

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

They're properly designed for the people Vision is pandering to. Slow cyclists. If you're derping along at 15km/h they're great.

If you're going fast the bike lanes are pretty dangerous. When you near car speeds you may as well operate in traffic, as you're more visible and have more options to escape situations like in that video. I tend to average 30 km/h on my road bike and subsequently avoid the bike paths and ride on bike streets.

I'm a fast cyclist and I'll take a separated path any day over the road.

[twoNeurons]

Doesn't help that you have horrible signs. TO me, at least... this sign takes much time to understand :


A solution, it would seem, would be to have a sensor and a traffic signal on the road that is ALWAYS RED TO TURN RIGHT. When the sensor detects a car is stopped in the right lane(to make a right turn) it changes the bike signal to red and allows the car to go.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

They're properly designed for the people Vision is pandering to. Slow cyclists. If you're derping along at 15km/h they're great.

They are designed for AAA "All Ages and Abilities".

And it's called a relaxed ride, not "derping along"...

[theKB]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

They are designed for AAA "All Ages and Abilities".

And it's called a relaxed ride, not "derping along"...

I don't really understand the need for recreational bike lanes in the downtown core but that's just me...

Interestingly enough, just doing a quick google image search for the major cities with separated bike lanes, vancouver seems to be the only one that felt the need to put weeds in between cars and bikes. New York, Copenhagen, Amsterdam etc all seem to have either waist height posts or parked cars separating the spaces. Richards seems to be the most logical way to implement lanes here but my guess is that method didn't disrupt traffic enough for visions liking. It probably is also the cheapest slapping some paint on the ground and being done with it.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

They are designed for AAA "All Ages and Abilities".

And it's called a relaxed ride, not "derping along"...

There is no such thing as universal infrastructure which is exactly what I was saying in my previous post. The "all abilities" part is bs in the AAA concept. You can ride in the bike lane very quickly, but it's not particularly safe at intersections and bike lane cyclists tend to have very bad lane discipline.

I generally ride as a vehicular cyclist when moving quickly, and in a case like Pender vs. Dunsmuir I will generally take Pender going East. It's not hard to stay visible on Pender and the closing speeds are minimal.

[Jimbo604]

photo credit: me

The Central Valley Greenway opened officially June 27, 2009 (source: Wikipedia). Now five short years later the Still Creek Drive connector is open. This is by the Willingdon Costco.

You may be familiar with the road ending by Costco and/or the sub-optimal "temporary" gravel path for the Central Valley Greenway for 1.5 blocks.

5 years to construct a 1.5 block connector, that's got to be a record. Go City of Burnaby, go!

Anyways, I saw a biker stopped with a confused look on his face. I guess he was wondering what happened to the gravel path that had been there forever.. can't blame him for being surprised at change so long in waiting!

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

The Central Valley Greenway opened officially June 27, 2009 (source: Wikipedia). Now five short years later the Still Creek Drive connector is open.

Nice, and thanks for the photo!

I've been cycling over that gravel path for what seems like forever, and it also seems like every month there was a slightly different routing of it.

Do you know if they've finally completed the bike path in front of the buildings along Still Creek drive all the way to Douglas? I've been cycling on the street all summer because the bike path in that stretch wasn't continuous.