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  #321  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2010, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by nlosborne3795 View Post
My only question is-

Why is Manhattan the only borough that has/will have the only supertalls in NYC?
Manhattan is the core of the city (obviously). You won't find supertalls, or really very tall buildings outside of center cities you're in one of those countires where they will build a supertall in the middle of nowhere, just to prove a point. Otherwise, you may as well put one on Long Island as well.
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  #322  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2010, 8:23 PM
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Manhattan is the core of the city (obviously). You won't find supertalls, or really very tall buildings outside of center cities you're in one of those countires where they will build a supertall in the middle of nowhere, just to prove a point. Otherwise, you may as well put one on Long Island as well.
though i think we can agree that one day even LI will have their own metropolis to accommodate their Manhattan commuting residents.
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  #323  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2010, 8:51 PM
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though i think we can agree that one day even LI will have their own metropolis to accommodate their Manhattan commuting residents.
I don't know about that, especially with the downzoning trend these days. Just look at what happened with the Lighthouse project. The reality is that skyscrapers - especially supertall skyscrapers - don't belong everywhere.
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  #324  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2010, 9:31 PM
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I don't know about that, especially with the downzoning trend these days. Just look at what happened with the Lighthouse project. The reality is that skyscrapers - especially supertall skyscrapers - don't belong everywhere.
ya id generally agree with that,though i will argue that Brooklyn will have at least 1 supertall in my lifetime and definitely one 700+ ft. tower in the next ten to fifteen years.
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  #325  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 12:11 AM
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ya id generally agree with that,though i will argue that Brooklyn will have at least 1 supertall in my lifetime and definitely one 700+ ft. tower in the next ten to fifteen years.
Let's get that 700 footer first, then worry about a supertall (which would look nice contrasted with lower Manhattan)...
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  #326  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 12:41 AM
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This ESB business is getting out of hand...


http://www.observer.com/2010/real-es...-midtown-tower

Battle of the Skyscrapers! Empire State Building Owner Takes Issue with New Penn Tower


Hey, I'm loomin' here! The ESB with a rendering of the newcomer/usurper.

By Eliot Brown
August 13, 2010

Quote:
Count Tony Malkin as apparently not a fan of Steve Roth's planned tower in place of the Hotel Pennsylvania.

In public testimony submitted to the City Planning Commission in June, Mr. Malkin, president of Malkin Properties and an owner of the Empire State Building, subtly lashed out against the planned office tower, slated to be between 2.6 and 2.8 million square feet, that Mr. Roth and his Vornado Realty Trust are hoping to build.

The 33rd Street would-be skyscraper across from Penn Station, which has no tenant and would be unlikely to be built until it gets one, would rise to 1,190 feet tall and would be called 15 Penn Plaza.

With the 1,250-foot Empire State Building just two blocks away, it would be a large new presence on the midtown skyline (one of the reasons the Empire State Building stands out so much is that it is a good 10 blocks south of anything else really tall). So, from the perspective of views, it's clear that the Vornado tower would change things for the Empire State Building, particularly from the west.

In his testimony, Mr. Malkin seemed offended that Vornado hadn't reached out to him more, writing "we only received one phone call" from the developer. He then went on to write that a "full evaluation" was needed of the Vornado tower's effect on the Empire State Building, which, in the world of development opposition, is often code for "stop this project."


Given ESB's great historical significance, its status as a landmarked icon in New York City's skyline and, most importantly, its proximity to the 15 Penn Plaza Project, Applicant's thorough communication to us with respect to the, 15 Penn Plaza Project would have been expected. However, we only received one phone call from Applicant about the project and only once it was within the public realm.

...

Given the 15 Penn Plaza Project's proximity to ESB, the scale, bulk and the design of the 15 Penn Plaza Project is incompatible with ESB, and the 15 Penn Plaza Project blocks views of the ESB from areas west of the 15 Penn Plaza Project, permanently changing the character of the New York City skyline. Accordingly, we believe a full evaluation of impacts associated with the 15 Penn Plaza Project on ESB is appropriate and necessary.



Of course, it's a bit late in the game for someone to oppose this tower and force any major changes. It's nearly wound its way through the public approvals process, and its last hurdle is the City Council, which has not shown signs (yet) that it has any major problems with the tower.

Otherwise, it's generated a relatively small amount of drama. Borough President Scott Stringer gave a conditional non-binding recommendation in favor of Vornado's plan, and the City Planning Commission approved it with minor modifications. The community board opposed it, but later wrote a letter to the City Planning Commission noting that it did not have problems with large development on the site, but, rather, had a number of specific concerns (that did not seem insurmountable).

Still, the community board took issue with the effect the building would have on the view of the Empire State Building, comparing it to the Jean Nouvel-designed skyscraper to rise by MoMA, which was chopped by 200 feet by the City Planning Commission. From the community board's letter:

In comparison, the 15 Penn Plaza application wholly lacks the MoMA project's distinguished architectural features, produces no benefits for landmark preservation or cultural access, would have similarly detrimental impacts on neighborhood density and traffic, and would notably diminish, not enhance, the skyline position of its iconic neighbor, the Empire State Building. Indeed, the proposed buildings would directly obstruct the view of the Empire State Building from the west, thereby fundamentally altering and diminishing New York City's skyline in a way few projects have in decades. Should 15 Penn Plaza not be held to the same standards and criteria as Nouvel/MoMA?
Ironically, the community board has been asking the same question we have been asking...

Quote:
In comparison, the 15 Penn Plaza application wholly lacks the MoMA project's distinguished architectural features, produces no benefits for landmark preservation or cultural access, would have similarly detrimental impacts on neighborhood density and traffic, and would notably diminish, not enhance, the skyline position of its iconic neighbor, the Empire State Building. Indeed, the proposed buildings would directly obstruct the view of the Empire State Building from the west, thereby fundamentally altering and diminishing New York City's skyline in a way few projects have in decades. Should 15 Penn Plaza not be held to the same standards and criteria as Nouvel/MoMA?
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Last edited by NYguy; Aug 14, 2010 at 12:54 AM.
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  #327  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Let's get that 700 footer first, then worry about a supertall (which would look nice contrasted with lower Manhattan)...
hmmm the Freedom Tower and another adjacent supertall across the Hudson,i suppose NY will be learning from HK

just did a quick sketch on paint
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  #328  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 12:57 AM
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This ESB business is getting out of hand...


http://www.observer.com/2010/real-es...-midtown-tower

Battle of the Skyscrapers! Empire State Building Owner Takes Issue with New Penn Tower


Hey, I'm loomin' here! The ESB with a rendering of the newcomer/usurper.

By Eliot Brown
August 13, 2010



Ironically, the community board has been asking the same question we have been asking...
why dont we just let Manhattan die and be like London then we wont build for 80 year periods.....
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  #329  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 1:02 AM
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why dont we just let Manhattan die and be like London then we wont build for 80 year periods.....
His opposition is more of a "how dare you infringe on my prized property" than a "we don't need any more office space". As far as I'm concerned, Malkin should be greatful for the one phone call. He could've just woken up one day to see Vornado's giant rising into the sky. And enough about blocking views on the skyline. That would only happen from a very specific vantage point.
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  #330  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 1:13 AM
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His opposition is more of a "how dare you infringe on my prized property" than a "we don't need any more office space". As far as I'm concerned, Malkin should be greatful for the one phone call. He could've just woken up one day to see Vornado's giant rising into the sky. And enough about blocking views on the skyline. That would only happen from a very specific vantage point.
ya seriously,thats enough with the views issue,they act like there putting a concrete box over the ESB....
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  #331  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 1:27 AM
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Just for fun, here's a little more of the Malkin's rant, posted online with all of the other letters...(page7-9)
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/env_...ndixi_feis.pdf

Quote:
3. The application materials and the DEIS indicate that the 15 Penn Plaza project would reach approximately 1,200 feet in height (1,134 feet or 1,156 feet to the top of roof; 1,190 feet or 1,216 feet to top of screen), but contain only 67 stories in the single tenant scenario or 68 stories in the multi-tenant scenario.

We are confused as to why approximately 14 feet per story is justified for a 67 or 68 story building to reach such great heights. In comparison, ESB is 102 stories high and reaches approximately the same height as the 15 Penn Plaza project (not including the ESB's broadcast tower), and the state-of-the-art New York Times Building at the intersection of Eighth Avenue and 42nd Street is 52-stories and 748 feet tall. We would respectfully request justification for the 15 Penn Plaza project height.

In addition, we request information on whether a mast, a spire, or antenna or other similar structure(s) is anticipated to be constructed or installed atop the 15 Penn Plaza project and if so, up to what height, so that we and the public can know the true and overall height of the project.
Somebody break out the violin...
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  #332  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 1:34 AM
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actually come to think of it Malkin is right...this would be a disaster to our skyline being that if you were to stand directly under 15 Penn Plaza when completed you'd never be able to see the ESB
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  #333  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 2:15 AM
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They should be embracing their new neighbor. With all of the coming competition from the WTC cluster, and other west side towers, the ESB wouldn't be as lonely. Think of the light shows they can have.








Something else I wasn't aware of, the trading floor elevators on the south (32nd St) side...










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  #334  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 2:25 AM
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I'm going to be in the minority here, but I simply wish they did not tear this hotel down when one block north there is a group of totally worthless 1 and 2 story buildings, (granted they are fairly decent and lively retail). Especially since Vornado owns some of it. Its just a shame something like this can happen, and I wish something could be worked out, like saving the seventh avenue face and incorporating the facade into the building. Think one face of the hearst tower.
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  #335  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 2:57 AM
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I'm going to be in the minority here, but I simply wish they did not tear this hotel down when one block north there is a group of totally worthless 1 and 2 story buildings, (granted they are fairly decent and lively retail). Especially since Vornado owns some of it.
Vornado does in fact have plans for some of it's other properties. This has been years in the making, its no coincidence that Vornado owns a lot of property in the area. Still, whether it's Vornado or some other entity who owns it, that doesn't change the fact that the hotel sits on what is basically the only large, through-block parcel in the area where such a large skyscraper can go. The city isn't trying to preserve a "hotel district", rather allowing Manhattan's ever-expanding commercial district to grow. There's no better place for that than where you have the city's greatest transportation center. No one here would even be discussing the Hotel Pennsylvania, if not for its impending demise.
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  #336  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 12:57 PM
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This is one project in the city I've definitely been keeping my eye, not because I'm particularly fond of the design, but because I've always felt the ESB looks so odd all alone it, almost seems out of place on 34th. Anyways it's good to hear that nothing really can be done this late in the game, and thanks for the updates.
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  #337  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 1:45 PM
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I think 15 Penn Plaza or some other buildings should be taller than ESB, it has been the tallest building in Midtown for 79 years now.
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  #338  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2010, 5:56 PM
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^ Stone him!
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  #339  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2010, 2:32 AM
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^ Stone him!
if the Empire State Building and other landmarks are treated as "divine" and unchallengeable New York City will die due to a slow death caused by a lack of progress.
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  #340  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2010, 4:17 AM
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^ Stone him too!
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