Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by esquire

Canadian English is basically US English with a few "u"s thrown in so we can herald ourselves as being distinctive. I don't get the idea of expressing national pride by saying 'leftenant', for example.

Some seem to treat the use of UK conventions as some kind of act of resistance against our US cultural overlord, but I don't see how one colonial master is any better than another in this regard. Apart from Canada-specific terms like bunnyhug, pogey and other quirky words like that, it's not like those customs and uses were invented here.

Okay, fair point but you see in many cases, what was once imposed by a former colonizer then becomes a point of cultural heritage generations after the fact.

An example could be like the West African country of Côte d'Ivoire preferring that and insisting on other countries formally calling it Côte d'Ivoire (a French name) and not Ivory Coast (an English name). That's taking a former colonizer's tongue as a source of pride but yet that's how it went. The same "how is switching one colonizer's language for another?" can be leveled against them here too, but it is what it is.

Or the Filipinos, ruled by Spain and then the Americans for a while, but using their Spanish influence (including Spanish surnames etc.) to distinguish themselves from other Asians as a point of pride. Their nation is named after King Philip of Spain. Again, why did the imperial overlords' culture become cherished symbols? Apparently, after some time, it just becomes culture and identity.

Or Hong Kongers, who are proud to be more British-oriented and westernized than their co-ethnics across the border from mainland China, even though Hong Kongers got that culture from being taken away from the mainland by their ancestors losing in a war (the Opium war) where the Brits fought for the right to sell opium to them and profit from getting them addicted to the drug. Again, former colonial masters' cultures are taken as a source of pride against their new overlords (mainland China) even though both were overlords who imposed their will on the populace undemocratically.

Or even, closer to home in North America, the African American vernacular English and African American culture which (although there are some west African influences that manage to survive) shares a lot with Southern US culture from old stock British Isles settlers. You can see and hear similarities that Black American culture got from white Southern culture, even if it was imposed on them. But many African Americans still take pride in these southern US influences (which they carried when they moved to other US regions like the Northeast or California etc.) like soul food influences from southern food etc.. Again, "why take pride in your past colonial overlords or plantation masters' culture?" can be asked with regards to these elements of Afro-American culture that came from whites but after a while, it still becomes part of their heritage that they don't want to give up.

[SignalHillHiker]

What does ZIP even stand for? Seems like it would be French, zone something postale.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

What does ZIP even stand for? Seems like it would be French, zone something postale.

Close, zone improvement plan.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by lio45

I wonder if I asked FrAnKs to translate "code postal" into English, if he wouldn't have the same instinct as me and want to say "zipcode".

I would have said ''Postal code'' ... I not even sure what ''ZIP'' stands for

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Close, zone improvement plan.

So, I have just learned something!

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by esquire

Canadian English is basically US English with a few "u"s thrown in so we can herald ourselves as being distinctive. I don't get the idea of expressing national pride by saying 'leftenant', for example.

Some seem to treat the use of UK conventions as some kind of act of resistance against our US cultural overlord, but I don't see how one colonial master is any better than another in this regard. Apart from Canada-specific terms like bunnyhug, pogey and other quirky words like that, it's not like those customs and uses were invented here.

Canada uses a hybrid of American and British spellings in English officially. (by governments, mostly in education, media)

Our history is the reason why it is the way it is. It wasn't really intended about being different from the U.S. but maybe in the last few decades it has been seen that way. To summarize, it has to do with movements of people into here. The British of course and then many from the U.S. who were loyalists. Later it was newspapers (media) who had a large influence. Many newspapers used American spelling for many years.

I think it was at some point in the 1980s or 1990s that a Canadian English dictionary was produced and a media consortium (or something like that) decided to adopt a Canadian way for English based on that dictionary and which most governments (federal and provincial) had been using with a few exceptions. Some words also went the American way because of U.S. influence through media and advertising.

I work in the federal public service and the spellings today are well known. But sometimes we will see examples of British spellings that are no longer used by almost all Canadians. Recently I saw "programme" yet most people here spell it "program." The funny thing is that many of the programs we use at work have an American English spell-checker on them so it drives you crazy when you have to work on a letter or document and you get the red underlining.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

This reminds me of one I heard (from a CBC Radio One host!) earlier today. Why do so many people mispronounce "mischievous" as though it had four syllables (mis-chee-vee-us)?

CBC radio always seems to have hosts who pronounce things differently.

One recent one that I can think of is electricity. She said ELL-LEK-TRICITY

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

CBC radio always seems to have hosts who pronounce things differently.

One recent one that I can think of is electricity. She said ELL-LEK-TRICITY

As opposed to?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

As opposed to?

E-LEK-TRICITY

She started it with "ELL" but everybody I know start it with "E"

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Beyond that, I just hate how long it takes people to say anything. I can say in 15 seconds what takes them a minute. And certain words... like when people from western Canada say "downtown". It's as though time stops.

Well there are so few of us on the bald prairie that a person likes to draw out a conversation!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

In terms of actual words... I don't particularly care for "ah" instead of "r" in New England. I cringe when anyone from mainland North America says "car" - that's a good unreasonable one.

"Car" is the same in most of Atlantic Canada. When I moved to NS at one point people made fun of how I said car, and then when I moved away from NS people in other parts of Canada made fun of how I said it. If you're used to the Atlantic version the "standard Canadian" version sounds like it has some weird a -> o shift and the "r" is comically drawn out. A lot of Western Canada accents sounds drawn out to me in this way. Massachusetts has the "caahh" thing which is different from Atlantic Canada. "Car" in some Irish accents is identical to Atlantic Canada.

An American friend recently brought up Canadian accents. A couple of people in the group were from the Maritimes, and he said we sounded like we had strong "Canadian accents" while the Westerners had mild Canadian accents that sometimes sounded differently and sometimes sounded American. I think this is mostly due to raising. I have a hard time even emulating how an American says "down". All of Canada has this to some degree but it's more prevalent and noticeable in Atlantic Canada. Americans don't tend to think of Atlantic Canada as having different accents from the rest of Canada, and probably don't notice some of the smaller differences.

Some Americans and Westerners think Atlantic accents are like Sarah Palin and I find this very offensive.

I think a lot of Americans don't have much of a concept of Canada per se and just imagine it as an undifferentiated northern area that's like Minnesota or Maine but moreso.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by someone123

"Car" is the same in most of Atlantic Canada. When I moved to NS at one point people made fun of how I said car, and then when I moved away from NS people in other parts of Canada made fun of how I said it. If you're used to the Atlantic version the "standard Canadian" version sounds like it has some weird a -> o shift and the "r" is comically drawn out. A lot of Western Canada accents sounds drawn out to me in this way. Massachusetts has the "caahh" thing which is different from Atlantic Canada. "Car" in some Irish accents is identical to Atlantic Canada.

An American friend recently brought up Canadian accents. A couple of people in the group were from the Maritimes, and he said we sounded like we had strong "Canadian accents" while the Westerners had mild Canadian accents that sometimes sounded differently and sometimes sounded American. I think this is mostly due to raising. I have a hard time even emulating how an American says "down". All of Canada has this to some degree but it's more prevalent and noticeable in Atlantic Canada. Americans don't tend to think of Atlantic Canada as having different accents from the rest of Canada, and probably don't notice some of the smaller differences.

Some Americans and Westerners think Atlantic accents are like Sarah Palin and I find this very offensive.

I think a lot of Americans don't have much of a concept of Canada per se and just imagine it as an undifferentiated northern area that's like Minnesota or Maine but moreso.

After living in BC for years I often can't distinguish between NLers and Maritimers, even though I can always distinguish between NLers and authentic Irish. I generally try to combine both accents.

East Coast Canadians say it the Irish way, this would sound good to someone from NL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otxVUjBdoPo

The rest of Canada and most of the states say it this way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhdLoP1P7O4

Yes, Sarah Palin would definitely raise a few eyebrows in eastern Canada, but in her case it's more than just an accent problem.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Architype

After living in BC for years I often can't distinguish between NLers and Maritimers, even though I can always distinguish between NLers and authentic Irish. I generally try to combine both accents.

East Coast Canadians say it the Irish way, this would sound good to someone from NL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otxVUjBdoPo

The rest of Canada and most of the states say it this way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhdLoP1P7O4

Yes, Sarah Palin would definitely raise a few eyebrows in eastern Canada, but in her case it's more than just an accent problem.

Oh Jesus that second "car". That's exactly what I was trying to reference. It's slower than normal, but it has all those extra syllables the same as when mainlanders say it. It's like they're singing it. Cah-oh-ah-oh-ahr!

As far as Atlantic Canadian accents go, I often assume Cape Bretoners are Newfoundlanders but there's usually a tell in the rest that doesn't take long to come up. Our way of speaking seems to slowly fade as you move away from Cape Breton. But they're definitely the closest to us in accent among the dominant Canadian ones, of course.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

E-LEK-TRICITY

She started it with "ELL" but everybody I know start it with "E"

Do they also say "Eye-RAQ" and "Eye-RAN"? That's what a long "e" at the start of "electricity" would remind me of.

Edit: Thinking about it, it actually reminds me of the "SEE-ment pond" that featured on a certain TV show many years ago!

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by lio45

I wonder if I asked FrAnKs to translate "code postal" into English, if he wouldn't have the same instinct as me and want to say "zipcode".

Why? Post / Postal code is the standard in English speaking countries outside the USA.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Do they also say "Eye-RAQ" and "Eye-RAN"? That's what a long "e" at the start of "electricity" would remind me of.

I can live with Eye-raq and Eye-ran, but Eye-talian is going too far for me... it evokes the days when my parents were young and "pizza pies" were considered exotic ethnic cuisine. You still hear it from time to time, though.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by esquire

I can live with Eye-raq and Eye-ran, but Eye-talian is going too far for me... it evokes the days when my parents were young and "pizza pies" were considered exotic ethnic cuisine. You still hear it from time to time, though.

My parents are in Machu Picchu right now and when Mom called she said "Mozza Picchu". I think that generation just doesn't care lol

[esquire]

In an effort to prevent being an oblivious older person myself (or at the very least, to prevent from becoming even more oblivious than I am now), maybe I should ask this here. I've been hearing more and more "Pock-iston" instead of the more familiar "Pakistan" of the past.

I always took "Pockiston" to just be "Pakistan" with a South Asian accent. But now white folks are saying it that way. Can someone fill me in?

[SignalHillHiker]

White people do a lot of things that non-white people aren't asking them to do, so it could be that. Likely it's just moving away from a pronunciation they see as compromised by prejudice given how it was used in the past (for example, the P-word). In my (obviously limited) experience most non-white people find this sort of thing hilarious and unnecessary but strongly support the underlying sentiment and willingness to compromise so they appreciate it just the same.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

White people do a lot of things that non-white people aren't asking them to do, so it could be that. Likely it's just moving away from a pronunciation they see as compromised by prejudice given how it was used in the past (for example, the P-word). In my (obviously limited) experience most non-white people find this sort of thing hilarious and unnecessary but strongly support the underlying sentiment and willingness to compromise so they appreciate it just the same.

Yeah, I've never heard of anyone being corrected by an actual Pakistani person to pronounce it with an 'o' sound, i.e. pock vs. pack.

It never occurred to me that there was anything suspect about saying pack-istan, but I guess some innocuous words/pronunciations are taken down as collateral damage by something way more incendiary or offensive, much like how no one says 'niggardly' anymore unless they're trying to instigate something.