Baseline Rd. Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Project | Proposed

[1overcosc]

If they split the route at Baseline, the eastern route (Hurdman->Baseline) should be extended to Bayshore, leaving two routes:
-Hurdman-Heron-Baseline-Bayshore
-Kanata-Bells Corners-Baseline

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

So, here is a theoretical question for you:

The Baseline BRT is being built in two phases; from Data Centre Road to Baseline Station; and then, at some (much?) later time, from Baseline Station to Bayshore Station. Phase 1, the eastern portion, is to include segregated transit running in the median.

And the question: Should the City split the bus route running along Baseline at Baseline Station?

This would make two routes: one running from Hurdman Station to Baseline Station; and a second, running from Baseline Station to Terry Fox Station (and eventually to Bayshore Station, if implemented as currently designed). During the construction of phase one, the western route would not be affected by the construction. And when the second phase finally gets built, the eastern route would not be affected.

Anyone who has ridden the buses along Baseline will have noticed that there is a very high percentage of riders from both directions who do not cross the Baseline Station. They are either destined for Algonquin College or are transferring onto the SW Transitway. The small percentage of people continuing past Baseline Station would need to transfer at the station.

The isolation of halves would help stop delays from continuing into the other half.

Potentially, it would also make it easier to use different technologies on each half of Baseline road. For example, after phase one, an automated vehicle could run on the dedicated RoW from Hurdman to Baseline Station; while a conventionally operated bus could run on the western portion. Conceivably, it would allow the eastern portion to be built as rail right from the start – although OC Transpo would have a problem converting the Transitway between Billings Bridge and Hurdman from bus to rail. (LRT in Baseline’s median would be nice, though, since it has doors on the left side of the vehicles; meaning a bit less corridor width and/or veering from side to side.)

I have heard that a lot of Carleton Students living in Bells Corners and Kanata use the 88 (former 118) to go to and from school as it is apparently the fastest route (presumably for those south of the 417, especially if within walking distance of the 88). Not sure if this will change after stage 2 LRT though.

[Richard Eade]

Honestly, I have not seen a huge demand for people traveling on Baseline to go to Bayshore. That is, I see very few people transfer from the # 88 to the # 152 or # 97; or transfer to the # 88 from the others. I think that if people are going from Baseline Station to Bayshore, they take a different route, probably through Lincoln Fields Station.

Essentially, my suggestion to split the route was to stop any construction delays, during the construction of the Baseline BRT, from crossing Baseline Station. Extending the eastern route past Baseline defeats that purpose.

Of course, stretching one of the sides also adds resource load to the system, since extra buses are then needed; to cover, mostly parallel service.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Honestly, I have not seen a huge demand for people traveling on Baseline to go to Bayshore. That is, I see very few people transfer from the # 88 to the # 152 or # 97; or transfer to the # 88 from the others. I think that if people are going from Baseline Station to Bayshore, they take a different route, probably through Lincoln Fields Station.

I also don't think the 88 should go to Bayshore. Keep the current routing... with maybe a break at Baseline. Having the 88 go to Bayshore is an unnecessary duplication of the future 59 (now 97).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

I also don't think the 88 should go to Bayshore. Keep the current routing... with maybe a break at Baseline. Having the 88 go to Bayshore is an unnecessary duplication of the future 59 (now 97).

I don’t think the plan would be for the 88 as we know it to go to Bayshore. A new route that runs from Baseline to Bayshore would be added.

[lrt's friend]

The reason why you don't see many use the transfer to Bayshore is because the frequency is so terrible. The 97 only runs once every 30 minutes between Bayshore and Bells Corners. That does not make a convenient transfer.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

So, here is a theoretical question for you:

The Baseline BRT is being built in two phases; from Data Centre Road to Baseline Station; and then, at some (much?) later time, from Baseline Station to Bayshore Station. Phase 1, the eastern portion, is to include segregated transit running in the median.

And the question: Should the City split the bus route running along Baseline at Baseline Station?

This would make two routes: one running from Hurdman Station to Baseline Station; and a second, running from Baseline Station to Terry Fox Station (and eventually to Bayshore Station, if implemented as currently designed). During the construction of phase one, the western route would not be affected by the construction. And when the second phase finally gets built, the eastern route would not be affected.

Anyone who has ridden the buses along Baseline will have noticed that there is a very high percentage of riders from both directions who do not cross the Baseline Station. They are either destined for Algonquin College or are transferring onto the SW Transitway. The small percentage of people continuing past Baseline Station would need to transfer at the station.

The isolation of halves would help stop delays from continuing into the other half.

Potentially, it would also make it easier to use different technologies on each half of Baseline road. For example, after phase one, an automated vehicle could run on the dedicated RoW from Hurdman to Baseline Station; while a conventionally operated bus could run on the western portion. Conceivably, it would allow the eastern portion to be built as rail right from the start – although OC Transpo would have a problem converting the Transitway between Billings Bridge and Hurdman from bus to rail. (LRT in Baseline’s median would be nice, though, since it has doors on the left side of the vehicles; meaning a bit less corridor width and/or veering from side to side.)

NO, because there are many people taking the 88 to go from Hurdman or Billings Bridge to Kanata (or bells corners).

The current Baseline BRT plan is to go from Billings to Bayshore. ...Perhaps another option is to interline, with one option to go from Billings to Bayshore, and another from Billings to Kanata (via Bells Corners).

We should also really look at the transit priority for the Eastern segment as well -- go Eastwards from Billings Bridge along Heron/Walkley.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Buggys

NO, because there are many people taking the 88 to go from Hurdman or Billings Bridge to Kanata (or bells corners).

The current Baseline BRT plan is to go from Billings to Bayshore. ...Perhaps another option is to interline, with one option to go from Billings to Bayshore, and another from Billings to Kanata (via Bells Corners).

We should also really look at the transit priority for the Eastern segment as well -- go Eastwards from Billings Bridge along Heron/Walkley.

Let's remember that this is BRT. There should be flexibility on the routes that use the Baseline route. So yes, routes could go to both Bayshore and Kanata. Furthermore, BRT will make the route more reliable and efficient so there is the possibility of increasing frequency at no extra cost.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Buggys

We should also really look at the transit priority for the Eastern segment as well -- go Eastwards from Billings Bridge along Heron/Walkley.

Just curious since I don’t live in the area. How congested are Heron east of Bank st and and Walkley east of Heron? Would a busway be needed or would various transit priority measures be good enough?

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Just curious since I don’t live in the area. How congested are Heron east of Bank st and and Walkley east of Heron? Would a busway be needed or would various transit priority measures be good enough?

During the AM rush Heron can be backed up from Bank all the way past Finn, possibly beyond Baycrest at times too. PM rush isn't as bad.

I don't think Walkley ever gets too bad other than between Russel and the 417, but that's past the area of interest.

In my opinion, if it were built today transit priority measures would be good enough although I don't know what could be done to Heron going westbound for the morning rush.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Let's remember that this is BRT. There should be flexibility on the routes that use the Baseline route. So yes, routes could go to both Bayshore and Kanata. Furthermore, BRT will make the route more reliable and efficient so there is the possibility of increasing frequency at no extra cost.

Yes, hopefully just because the plan is to have BRT from Billings to Bayshore doesn't mean there can't be a route of the same or higher frequency to Kanata, as that's where the current ridership is.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

During the AM rush Heron can be backed up from Bank all the way past Finn, possibly beyond Baycrest at times too. PM rush isn't as bad.

I don't think Walkley ever gets too bad other than between Russel and the 417, but that's past the area of interest.

In my opinion, if it were built today transit priority measures would be good enough although I don't know what could be done to Heron going westbound for the morning rush.

The issue is the frequency of the 112 along Heron between Billings & Walkley is only every 30 mins at best, even during rush hour, despite it being a transit priority route as per the TMP.

Ideally, the Eastern portion should be just as frequent as the Western portion & be a continuous (no transfer) route with the Western portion.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Buggys

The issue is the frequency of the 112 along Heron between Billings & Walkley is only every 30 mins at best, even during rush hour, despite it being a transit priority route as per the TMP.

Ideally, the Eastern portion should be just as frequent as the Western portion & be a continuous (no transfer) route with the Western portion.

It's closer to every 20 minutes and 15 during peak periods. Supposedly after the Confederation Line opens it'll become a consistent 15 minute frequency route. Of course, there's no reason that couldn't be increased once the BRT launches.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

It's closer to every 20 minutes and 15 during peak periods. Supposedly after the Confederation Line opens it'll become a consistent 15 minute frequency route. Of course, there's no reason that couldn't be increased once the BRT launches.

Personally I think the bigger issue is the location of the transfer. It is a desolate windswept field on the side of a highway with cars whizzing by at 80+km/h. Yes there are shelters and the QCH is to the north, but it is hardly a safe nor enjoyable place to wait for a bus.

https://goo.gl/maps/vbZLDfpXp9D2

The alternate route has a transfer at Lincoln Fields, which is much nicer and the routes have much more frequent service at most if not all times of the day, making the transfer smoother. If there was a fast, direct bus, that would be an even better option.

Which route would you choose?

Edit: I plugged Baseline to Bayshore by Transit into Google Maps, and it only shows using the transitway via either Lincoln Fields or Queensway Stations.

https://goo.gl/maps/SzoYcJgiZLC2

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Personally I think the bigger issue is the location of the transfer. It is a desolate windswept field on the side of a highway with cars whizzing by at 80+km/h. Yes there are shelters and the QCH is to the north, but it is hardly a safe nor enjoyable place to wait for a bus.

https://goo.gl/maps/vbZLDfpXp9D2

The alternate route has a transfer at Lincoln Fields, which is much nicer and the routes have much more frequent service at most if not all times of the day, making the transfer smoother. If there was a fast, direct bus, that would be an even better option.

Which route would you choose?

Edit: I plugged Baseline to Bayshore by Transit into Google Maps, and it only shows using the transitway via either Lincoln Fields or Queensway Stations.

https://goo.gl/maps/SzoYcJgiZLC2

Wait, which transfer are you talking about?

The TMP map shows the BRT crossing the 416 into Bells Corners before turning back North to Bayshore. Assuming they can find a good way to get buses into Bells Corners then that would be a better place to transfer (transferring to go West i'm assuming?).

Unless your idea is that the BRT should start/end at Lincoln Fields to facilitate transfers in all directions?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Wait, which transfer are you talking about?

The transfer from the 88 to the 152 or 97 that Richard Eade said few people take in post #303 and thus questioning the need for BRT to Bayshore, starting this whole conversation.

The TMP map shows the BRT crossing the 416 into Bells Corners before turning back North to Bayshore. Assuming they can find a good way to get buses into Bells Corners then that would be a better place to transfer (transferring to go West i'm assuming?).

I believe that has changed. The plan is to go directly to Bayshore, cutting through the back of the QCH.

Unless your idea is that the BRT should start/end at Lincoln Fields to facilitate transfers in all directions?

No. I don't see the point in that. LRT will be providing fast, frequent service along that route.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The transfer from the 88 to the 152 or 97 that Richard Eade said few people take in post #303 and thus questioning the need for BRT to Bayshore, starting this whole conversation.



I believe that has changed. The plan is to go directly to Bayshore, cutting through the back of the QCH.



No. I don't see the point in that. LRT will be providing fast, frequent service along that route.

Ah, I see. I can see why that part of the BRT is questionable.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

During the AM rush Heron can be backed up from Bank all the way past Finn, possibly beyond Baycrest at times too. PM rush isn't as bad.

I don't think Walkley ever gets too bad other than between Russel and the 417, but that's past the area of interest.

In my opinion, if it were built today transit priority measures would be good enough although I don't know what could be done to Heron going westbound for the morning rush.

IIRC the Bank Street Functional Design had westbound transit priority at Heron and Bank...

Yep, found it:

https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents.ottawa.ca/files/bank_renew_heron_evans_en.pdf

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

IIRC the Bank Street Functional Design had westbound transit priority at Heron and Bank...

Yep, found it:

https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents.ottawa.ca/files/bank_renew_heron_evans_en.pdf

Ah, that's quite interesting. Thank you!

[lrt's friend]

At least in the past, Walkley would back up badly at Russell, usually both ways. That was before the Hunt Club Road interchange opened. Hopefully, it is not as bad now, but probably still a lot of traffic there. Bank and Heron can also back up quite a bit.

I think the point of a Bayshore connection from the Baseline BRT is to avoid the extra transfer between Baseline and Bayshore once LRT is in place.