Baseline Rd. Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Project | Proposed

[kmcamp]

For whatever reason, "Won't somebody pleaaaase think of the children!!?!" seems to be a North American disease.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

For whatever reason, "Won't somebody pleaaaase think of the children!!?!" seems to be a North American disease.

In Ottawa, the controversy would be over the ZOMG WIRES

[Truenorth00]

Any updates on this one. What's the plan for construction? I can see Notice of Completion for the TPAP.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

Someone correct me on the date, but IIRC, it was (very very low key slipped in-and-out) announced at TPAP completion that the project was shelved until at least 2023.

I happen to think that someone is hoping it just dies buried on the back shelf - ie: at least another decade or so until it pops out again.
I think the controversy over the western segment configuration (past Merivale/Clyde to Greenbank) bit someone's tail.

Whatever, it's down the rabbit hole again.

Added: Here's a CBC article from 2017Feb08 at TPAP commencement, and even then scheduling and funding timing was <extended>.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/bas...ansit-corridor-design-approved-1.3971203

Quote:
Construction on the first, $140-million stretch between Heron Station and Baseline Station at Algonquin College could begin in 2020 if funding from the provincial and federal governments comes through. The portion of the corridor from Baseline to Bayshore stations is not being considered until after 2031.
UnQuote.

[Truenorth00]

So could they make this part of Stage 3?

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

Apart from the Bayshore/Moodie to Hazeldean/Stittsville western extension being informally the only Stage 3 project even passingly being referred to as Stage 3 (now more referred to as the Kanata LRT project), the eastern extension being basically finished, and electrification and full double tracking of the Trillium Line being put off indefinitely, I think that the appellation of 'Stage 3' will die a natural death.
They may revive it in the future for the T-Line electrification/doubling, and they might conceivably wrap a Heron to Algonquin/Baseline BRT or streetcar LRT into it then, but .......

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

the eastern extension being basically finished,

Well one branch will be complete after Stage 2. There is still the southern Orleans BRT. How long before they decide that it should be LRT instead?

[Richard Eade]

I think that it is a shame that they didn’t use the same thinking for the Baseline BRT as they used for the east end of Carling. On Carling, there is no traffic congestion, to speak of, heading west from Bronson; it is the east-bound direction from Carling to Bronson that gets clogged with traffic. Thus, they only planned to add an east-bound bus lane to that stretch of Carling.

Along Baseline, in the morning, the east-bound stretch from Robertson to Woodroffe is congested; in the evening, it is the west-bound section from Prince of Wales to Woodroffe that is the worst. Since there is a median along most of Baseline, why not simply replace it with a single transit lane which would be divided by direction; heading to Woodroffe (actually Constellation) from the west and to Woodroffe (actually Navaho) from the east. That way, the morning buses could quickly bypass traffic and so could the afternoon buses. Morning buses going west from Baseline Station would still be in mixed traffic, as would the afternoon buses that go east from Baseline Station.

This would be a Phase 1 approach, so the design would need to be such that there could be minimum disruption when the alternate direction lanes were added in the future, during Phase 2.

[TransitZilla]

Construction of this project may have been pushed back but it is still moving forward; it is currently in detailed design using PTIF money.

From last week's update on PTIF: http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=502426

PTIF Project Status Update as of January 8, 2018
...
PTIF Project ID: OTT -033
Description: Baseline Transit Corridor - Bayshore to Billings- Design
City Funding Contribution: $6,000,000
Funding Deadline: March 31, 2019
Project Status: Design only project. The project is approximately 20% complete.

I think that means that detailed design of this project is a $12M undertaking...

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

Hummnnnn.... interesting. I guess they got more federal infrastructure funds (the other half).

I don't know if this is death-by-study,
or actual get it (the eastern half) shovel ready to roll into T-Line Stage 2 if funded.

Also interesting to eventually see if BRT or Streetcar LRT. Probably remain BRT.

Thx.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

Hummnnnn.... interesting. I guess they got more federal infrastructure funds (the other half).

Yes this page shows the federal contribution as $6M as well: http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/pt-sp/projects-list-liste-projets-on-eng.html

I don't think this is being shelved or buried... spending $12M on something is a funny way to do that.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Yes this page shows the federal contribution as $6M as well: http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/pt-sp/projects-list-liste-projets-on-eng.html

I don't think this is being shelved or buried... spending $12M on something is a funny way to do that.

I don't know. Seems like classic Ottawa.

[Truenorth00]

It's just under $17.5M/km for construction costs. That seems expensive for at-grade BRT.

I wonder what the delta would be to simply go to LRT and if there's ridership to justify it. Or whether BRT makes more sense here, allowing local routes faster access to the Trillium and Confederation lines.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's just under $17.5M/km for construction costs. That seems expensive for at-grade BRT.

I wonder what the delta would be to simply go to LRT and if there's ridership to justify it. Or whether BRT makes more sense here, allowing local routes faster access to the Trillium and Confederation lines.

I think BRT is the better choice here. There's not as many destinations on Baseline that would drive demand as much as there is destinations off it that would be better served by faster connections via the baseline transitway. E.g. Carleton U would be a big driver on BRT (students already take the 88 and transfer to the trillium line at Mooney's Bat) that might be better served by a direct bus.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I think BRT is the better choice here. There's not as many destinations on Baseline that would drive demand as much as there is destinations off it that would be better served by faster connections via the baseline transitway. E.g. Carleton U would be a big driver on BRT (students already take the 88 and transfer to the trillium line at Mooney's Bat) that might be better served by a direct bus.

The 111 bus was redirected to Carleton because transferring students were previously overwhelming the Trillium Line

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's just under $17.5M/km for construction costs. That seems expensive for at-grade BRT.

I wonder what the delta would be to simply go to LRT and if there's ridership to justify it. Or whether BRT makes more sense here, allowing local routes faster access to the Trillium and Confederation lines.

That doesn't sound too terribly expensive to me, given the extensive modifications to the physical infrastructure that will be required.

If that's close to economic justification for LRT, then hells yeah, let's build those downtown streetcars, too!

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That doesn't sound too terribly expensive to me, given the extensive modifications to the physical infrastructure that will be required.

If that's close to economic justification for LRT, then hells yeah, let's build those downtown streetcars, too!

I'm using their quoted price for BRT. I am going to guess that LRT would be more. Electrification, rail yard, etc. The questions are what the delta is and whether it'll get more ridership.

It may well be the case that BRT would get more ridership. As routes and join and break off as needed.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm using their quoted price for BRT. I am going to guess that LRT would be more. Electrification, rail yard, etc. The questions are what the delta is and whether it'll get more ridership.

It may well be the case that BRT would get more ridership. As routes and join and break off as needed.

Didn't you say in another thread that a route should have at least 2500 pphpd to be considered viable for LRT? I don't think Baseline approaches anywhere close to that. Even if BRT and LRT were equal cost, a bare bones LRT train will have double the capacity of an articulated bus, so you would likely end up with half the service frequency.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The 111 bus was redirected to Carleton because transferring students were previously overwhelming the Trillium Line

Route 111 was extended to Carleton University because of the elimination of the old Route 117 as part of the 2011 Route Optimization exercise.

[Richard Eade]

So, here is a theoretical question for you:

The Baseline BRT is being built in two phases; from Data Centre Road to Baseline Station; and then, at some (much?) later time, from Baseline Station to Bayshore Station. Phase 1, the eastern portion, is to include segregated transit running in the median.

And the question: Should the City split the bus route running along Baseline at Baseline Station?

This would make two routes: one running from Hurdman Station to Baseline Station; and a second, running from Baseline Station to Terry Fox Station (and eventually to Bayshore Station, if implemented as currently designed). During the construction of phase one, the western route would not be affected by the construction. And when the second phase finally gets built, the eastern route would not be affected.

Anyone who has ridden the buses along Baseline will have noticed that there is a very high percentage of riders from both directions who do not cross the Baseline Station. They are either destined for Algonquin College or are transferring onto the SW Transitway. The small percentage of people continuing past Baseline Station would need to transfer at the station.

The isolation of halves would help stop delays from continuing into the other half.

Potentially, it would also make it easier to use different technologies on each half of Baseline road. For example, after phase one, an automated vehicle could run on the dedicated RoW from Hurdman to Baseline Station; while a conventionally operated bus could run on the western portion. Conceivably, it would allow the eastern portion to be built as rail right from the start – although OC Transpo would have a problem converting the Transitway between Billings Bridge and Hurdman from bus to rail. (LRT in Baseline’s median would be nice, though, since it has doors on the left side of the vehicles; meaning a bit less corridor width and/or veering from side to side.)