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  #301  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2014, 5:40 PM
nefc nefc is offline
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I noticed some retail signage is up on the main street side this morning. I didn't catch the name though. Anyone know what is going in there?
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  #302  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2014, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by nefc View Post
I noticed some retail signage is up on the main street side this morning. I didn't catch the name though. Anyone know what is going in there?
There is a coffee shop going into one of the units, can't remember the name however.
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  #303  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2014, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dleung View Post
If they were going to go the tacky route, might as well have clad all the columns that way.

Anyway, I like posting pics of much better versions of this project:


Pier 31 in Toronto, by Marcanadian
Pier 31 is 1000x better on so many levels, one of the most important being that the 'arch' faces the lake so the dominant architectural feature will always be preserved and fully visible.

Central's 'arch' face, on the north side into LIDO making the 'arch' no longer visible, the south side faces another development lot, where the McDonald's currently is. When both sides are fully developed, the entire unique feature of this building will be hidden making it rather redundant.

Subjectively, Pier 31 is a far more cohesive and sophisticated design IMO.
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  #304  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2014, 8:02 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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To add to the mix, Price Tags posted this project in Singapore (which would require a much larger site):


http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2014/...and-vancouver/
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  #305  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2014, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Not sure how the Toronto project is any better. That's a whole lot of expressionless glass bearing down on you. Pretty oppressive actually.
The concrete columns do not contribute to the design.
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  #306  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 2:00 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Not sure how the Toronto project is any better. That's a whole lot of expressionless glass bearing down on you. Pretty oppressive actually.
Hear, hear. This comment applies also to many other recent Toronto projects.
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  #307  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 5:16 AM
rofina rofina is offline
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Both projects have set backs, but I certainly think Central is the inferior of the two.

The columns completely ruin the look. Regardless of being part of the design since inception, they obviously detract from the idea of stacked boxes.

Its a non starter, the top box should have been designed or engineered in a way that would allow a clean span.
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  #308  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rofina View Post
Both projects have set backs, but I certainly think Central is the inferior of the two.

The columns completely ruin the look. Regardless of being part of the design since inception, they obviously detract from the idea of stacked boxes.

Its a non starter, the top box should have been designed or engineered in a way that would allow a clean span.
An Onni development manager where he stated that a column-free design was their preferred choice, but a thicker transfer slab would have resulted in an intrusion of several inches into the holy sanctity of a view cone.
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  #309  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 3:55 PM
spm2013 spm2013 is offline
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Originally Posted by BodomReaper View Post
An Onni development manager where he stated that a column-free design was their preferred choice, but a thicker transfer slab would have resulted in an intrusion of several inches into the holy sanctity of a view cone.
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  #310  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BodomReaper View Post
An Onni development manager where he stated that a column-free design was their preferred choice, but a thicker transfer slab would have resulted in an intrusion of several inches into the holy sanctity of a view cone.
This was discussed when the project went through the UDP, including input from Onni's Beau Jarvis, Bruce Haden the architect, and the project's structural engineers. A column-free design was indeed the preferred design and the genesis of the project concept. The orientation of the project maximizes the number of units with west and northwest facing views while simultaneously maximizing privacy of the units from overlook. The diagonal placement of the 'bridge' element creates northwest facing views for all of the bridge units on the north side. It's also important to note the site is rectangular, with the thin edge facing False Creek, unlike the Toronto project where there is three to four times the width facing the water. An alternative placement where Central's slabs would be located on the north and south side of the site with the bridge slung east-west would have created a more narrow separation between the two slabs, greater overlook into the units from the office building and from adjacent residential buildings, and the shorter (length wise) bridge would have contained fewer units skewing the pro-forma. Were the bridge to be widened to retain the same floor space and unit count, it would have resulted in far less efficient, deeper units and a more overbearing tabletop-like bridge.

Regarding the presence of columns, they were randomly spaced in the design when it came through the UDP, as opposed to being in two neat rows. An angled arrangement of 'chopsticks in a cup' column placement was discussed as the design team's preferred column solution, but it was unachievable due to the inefficiency it would have introduced to the parking structure levels and the negative impact on the project's proforma due to complexity of construction. As to why a true bridge were not pursued, it was due to cost and site constraints. The price point of the building (residential units and commercial lease rates) and the additional structure in the slab podiums to carry the weight of the bridge did not warrant Onni pursuing a steel-frame bridge section. A thick concrete transfer slab would have allowed a free-floating bridge but that would require the forfeiture of a level of residential in the bridge to remain within the site's zoned height limit and significant additional load-bearing structure would have been required inside the slab podiums reducing their floor space through inefficiency. The building with columns reaches the very limit of the already-raised height regulations for Southeast False Creek and it's worth noting that no view cones regulations apply; height limits and view cones regulations are not synonymous. The project could have redistributed the density lost to structure from the bridge and slab podiums to other locations, but this would have led to deeper, less efficient and desirable residential units in the residential slab podium and additional office space in the office slab podium, which presumably their proforma didn't support, and a wider bridge with deeper, less efficient units in the bridge, the extra weight of which would have required even more load-bearing structure in the podiums.

The columns were the only way that the building would work within its pro-forma while adhering as close as possible to its design intent. For what it's worth, the land value of the Toronto Project was likely far less per square foot than what Onni paid for its SEFC site, and the Toronto neighbourhood where it's located is what I would charitably call desolate. The next door neighbour to the site is this listing, healthcode-closed, seasick-inducing fish and chips restaurant: http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/t...arge.promo.jpg
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Last edited by SFUVancouver; Jul 24, 2014 at 4:43 PM.
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  #311  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo604 View Post
I feel terrible for those who bought units facing the poles
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  #312  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BodomReaper View Post
An Onni development manager where he stated that a column-free design was their preferred choice, but a thicker transfer slab would have resulted in an intrusion of several inches into the holy sanctity of a view cone.
I call BS on that. The transfer slab could have easily been accommodated if they gave up a marginal amount of square footage, something Onni would never, ever do.

I admit I've gone back and forth on this one but in the end I'd say it’s a failure. I'm actually looking forward to the McDonalds site being developed so I don't have to look at it anymore. Once the rest of the block fills in it will just be a kind of weird, bulky mid-block mid-rise.

You have to ask yourself if any respected developer would have built this. Westbank? Bosa? Cressey? I think not. I don't even think Concord would have built this and they are about as mercenary as they come.
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  #313  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 4:19 PM
phesto phesto is offline
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Originally Posted by PaperTiger View Post
I call BS on that. The transfer slab could have easily been accommodated if they gave up a marginal amount of square footage, something Onni would never, ever do.

I admit I've gone back and forth on this one but in the end I'd say it’s a failure. I'm actually looking forward to the McDonalds site being developed so I don't have to look at it anymore. Once the rest of the block fills in it will just be a kind of weird, bulky mid-block mid-rise.

You have to ask yourself if any respected developer would have built this. Westbank? Bosa? Cressey? I think not. I don't even think Concord would have built this and they are about as mercenary as they come.
No, Concord would have definitely built this. They are in the same group of developers that value quick sales above all else.

As long as the end consumer values price, floorplan and location first and doesn't care about mediocre design (and they don't care about the design - Central is nearing 90% sales before completion), we'll keep seeing the occasional mess like this building.
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  #314  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 5:07 PM
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You're right of course. It is a bit frustrating though.

I'm a believer that good design doesn't have to cost more it just take s a bit more care and consideration. Like if you can't build a bridge design right, go back to the drawing board and come up with a design that you can build with integrity.
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  #315  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 7:55 PM
spm2013 spm2013 is offline
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Its Moka Coffee House or something. Expect Blenz without the franchise fees
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  #316  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 8:21 PM
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I a accept why the choice was made and I don't hate the concrete columns, but at least the proposed angled steel columns would have added some whimsy while meeting the need to support the top block.

It would look better if the columns were covered and ivy and made a play of being concrete jungle trees. Maybe have some glowing lanterns hanging from the 'tree tops'.

Ideally there would be a massive rope swing and a full Peter Pan motif.
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  #317  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 8:51 PM
Kapten Kapten is offline
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Originally Posted by spm2013 View Post
Its Moka Coffee House or something. Expect Blenz without the franchise fees
I am sure Moka House has Franchise fees too.

See http://mokahouse.com/?page_id=10
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  #318  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 12:08 AM
NewWester NewWester is offline
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Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
This was discussed when the project went through the UDP, including input from Onni's Beau Jarvis, Bruce Haden the architect...
And the award for substantiative and smart posts goes to SFUVancouver for their excellent and thoughtful essay. Gosh I wish more of what lived on this forum reached this level of discourse.

For what it's worth, I don't mind the columns and think the extra tree column is kind of fun. And yeah, it would be great if they could find a way to incorporate the additional columns into an urban forest/canopy vibe.
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  #319  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 12:17 AM
spm2013 spm2013 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kapten View Post
I am sure Moka House has Franchise fees too.

See http://mokahouse.com/?page_id=10
Ah thanks, never heard of it before. Congrats to whoever is about to get fleeced of their life savings. Only a 7.5% monthly royalty fee YOLO.
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  #320  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 1:44 AM
rsxstock rsxstock is offline
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for some reason, i keep imagining the possibility of having a mini bungee jump or a giant swing underneath
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