New Downtown Calgary Arena

[polishavenger]

Originally Posted by Electrical Storm

Ken King was at UofC's downtown campus this morning for 'Haskayne Hour'.

Overall, the focus wasn't on Calgary Next, but rather on the value of professional sports on city building. Pretty interesting stuff.

It was a valueless fluff piece of a presentation. They seemed to have overlooked the fact that the city already has professional sports teams, so no need to sell the social benefits of them unless its a veiled threat to leave. How is building Calgary Next going to add more social benefits above and beyond the existing teams and existing facilities wasnt even mentioned.

Also no discussion about why a professional team even bothers to look at new facilities, because ultimately it comes down to added money to the owners, and they like to ignore that motivation because then people ask the question, "if you benefit, why don't you pay for it".

Which leads to the glaring omission of any discussion at all of how to finance the development. Not a peep about the fact that the ownership group could pay for this out of pocket and barely notice a dip in their net worth. The UofC prof did mention briefly a few times that the preponderance of studies show no economic benefit to new stadium projects, but didnt spend much time elaborating on that.

[Innersoul1]

I was intrigued watching all of the shots of the Bridgestone Arena during the All-Star game. It's a pretty sharp looking rink. It's also right next to the Music City Center, which is a stunning convention space http://www.nashvillemusiccitycenter.com/

Would there be any merit to having a combined arena and convention space. I get that the field house benefits the Stamps/Flames organization. Just throwing stuff out there.

[ByeByeBaby]

New poll out in the most recent issue of Metro:
Slim majority pan CalgaryNext

The headline is a little misleading; while just over half didn't support the project, the funding model - which is intrinsic to the proposal - was substantially more unpopular; 7% strongly approve, 20% somewhat approve, 24% somewhat disapprove and 40% strongly disapprove.

[Socguy]

It's already been discussed how 'back of the napkin' this proposal was. This is probably by design. Ken King is no dummy. He's playing the long game where he throws out the gold plated version, gets everyones' dander up but lays the groundwork where whatever comes next seems reasonable by comparison.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by Socguy

It's already been discussed how 'back of the napkin' this proposal was. This is probably by design. Ken King is no dummy. He's playing the long game where he throws out the gold plated version, gets everyones' dander up but lays the groundwork where whatever comes next seems reasonable by comparison.

Your post may be a bit facetious, but I beg to differ with the bolded line above. Only a complete idiot would willingly stand next to a screen smiling while presenting an embarrassment like CalgaryNEXT to the public.

[McMurph]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Your post may be a bit facetious, but I beg to differ with the bolded line above. Only a complete idiot would willingly stand next to a screen smiling while presenting an embarrassment like CalgaryNEXT to the public.

Don't forget his classy use of the term "money shot" during the presentation.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by McMurph

Don't forget his classy use of the term "money shot" during the presentation.

All he needs is a porno stache and a camcorder and he'd be the perfect smut merchant!

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Would there be any merit to having a combined arena and convention space. I get that the field house benefits the Stamps/Flames organization. Just throwing stuff out there.

Any benefit would have to outweigh the design-challenge presented by having numerous superblocks.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by Riise

Any benefit would have to outweigh the design-challenge presented by having numerous superblocks.

And would have to outweigh the current benefit of having the Saddledome next to the BMO centre now (I know Suburbia, the BMO centre isn't a fully proper convention centre, but it still counts IMO).

[Socguy]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Your post may be a bit facetious, but I beg to differ with the bolded line above. Only a complete idiot would willingly stand next to a screen smiling while presenting an embarrassment like CalgaryNEXT to the public.

I take your point. I just have a hard time squaring the idea that the Flames had this much time to work on something and this was what we got.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by Socguy

I take your point. I just have a hard time squaring the idea that the Flames had this much time to work on something and this was what we got.

I am flabbergasted, myself!!

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

I am flabbergasted, myself!!

Especially when you see what Ottawa just showed! (in like a tenth of the time it took the Flames)

[fusili]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

New poll out in the most recent issue of Metro:
Slim majority pan CalgaryNext

The headline is a little misleading; while just over half didn't support the project, the funding model - which is intrinsic to the proposal - was substantially more unpopular; 7% strongly approve, 20% somewhat approve, 24% somewhat disapprove and 40% strongly disapprove.

When you have 64% disapprove and only 27% approve, it isn't a slim majority, it is a trouncing. Not only that, but 40% strongly disapprove.

If this is to be evaluated as a PR battle between Nenshi and Bettman (I don't think it should be, there are a lot more players in this than just those two, but anyways), then Nenshi is clearly winning. 64% to 27%.

[O-tacular]

I don't see anything happening on the arena front for a long time. The city isn't giving in to this BS and the ownership group is simply going to have to accept that and build it themselves (which they likely won't do until every other option has been exhausted).

[sammyd]

Originally Posted by McMurph

Don't forget his classy use of the term "money shot" during the presentation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_shot

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I don't see anything happening on the arena front for a long time. The city isn't giving in to this BS and the ownership group is simply going to have to accept that and build it themselves (which they likely won't do until every other option has been exhausted).

Bang on O. This is a dead issue. At least for a while.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

I am flabbergasted, myself!!

As a Calgarian I was highly insulted by how little effort they put into it. It was like the Flames felt like they could spoon feed us this steaming pile and we'd eat it up and ask for more.

[bt04ku]

The Ottawa guys are basically in the same position as the Flames at this point, and they at least dressed theirs up.



Sure it's not particularly coherent, very noisy, but it's the kind of thing that is supposed to distract the populace while you try to get public money. Sure it looks like it was whipped up in an hour, but that is basically what the Flames gave us, but without any snap. Not even a crackle. Just no pop.



I mean they've been delaying this thing for ages, and this is the best they could do to try and win the hearts and minds of Calgarians? Come up with something amazing that after seeing we just can't do without, but you can't do without public help and will otherwise come up with something boring (something like what you came up with) so that we'd rather fork over our money for all the bells and whistles of an iconic building, fiscal sense be damned. If we're going to go after a white elephant, at least give us a reason to chase it.

Say what you want about the Cowboy Hat arena, but it at least had some form of heart and effort put into it.

[geotag277]

It's a negotiation guys. What would be the purpose of spending a ton of money up front for a first draft proposal that would have near zero chance of getting approved anyway?

The Flames put forward a straw man for the next arena as a starting point for talks and negotiations with the city. I don't think they really expected majority approval at this early stage.

Now there is at least a proposal out there that can be debated, and people like Nenshi and others can address the lack of value and how the public funds fall short.

It's going to be a very long process, and there is little sense in front loading it with unrealistic fireworks.

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by geotag277

It's a negotiation guys. What would be the purpose of spending a ton of money up front for a first draft proposal that would have near zero chance of getting approved anyway?

The Flames put forward a straw man for the next arena as a starting point for talks and negotiations with the city. I don't think they really expected majority approval at this early stage.

Now there is at least a proposal out there that can be debated, and people like Nenshi and others can address the lack of value and how the public funds fall short.

It's going to be a very long process, and there is little sense in front loading it with unrealistic fireworks.

I agree with this. I think KK and company just throw shitty proposal (in terms of detail and planning) to the wall just to see if they could get a public reaction to stick. Hoping that citizens would love the idea and start putting pressure on the City to get the project going.

Fortunately for us, nobody really bought it and wants to put their tax dollars on the line for these guys and there is minimal pressure on the City to action on this. The result is that this will be a long process before anything to built. But at least it gets the conversation started.