Amazon HQ2 thread

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

Amazon, Netflix, Facebook, Apple, Google are the new order of Wall Street. They even have a nickname for them, FAANG.

Did you know the antithesis of FAANG in Wall Street jargon is CRAP = Computers, Resources, American banks and Phone carriers?

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

Bezos might say 'fuck it' and set up shop over in nearby Yakima. Just to throw everyone off their game. Take that SSP speculators!

Or Puerto Rico. As a good progressive he might want to give the bedraggled island's Democratic governor a hand while metastasizing to Latin America.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by ReeWee

Lol maarta. Really? REALLY?

Yeah, MARTA is not a selling point for ATL. It's awful, but at least it's something.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by TWAK

They should give it to a struggling city IMO. That would be the "right" thing to do. I vote Sacramento or the bay area because I'm greedy. Sacramento would have room in the Downtown railyards or other redevelopment areas that are near downtown. Maybe Stockton. Lots of options there

LOL based on their current footprint, NorCal seems like the logical choice as far as consolidating already present divisions and subsidiaries of the company.

The Bay Area seems to have the largest Amazon presence outside of Seattle-at least in terms of jobs posted, nearly 1,000 at present time.

They appear to be highly skilled positions for the most part.

Many job opportunities are available throughout the Golden State, from Kindle hardware design to Bay Area Amazon subsidiaries include the following:

Amazon Digital Music | San Francisco, California

Alexa Internet | San Francisco, California

Goodreads | San Francisco, California

Amazon Lab126 | Sunnyvale and Cupertino, California

Alexa | Sunnyvale and Cupertino, California

A9 | Palo Alto, California

Amazon Web Services | San Francisco and Palo Alto, California

Amazon Game Studios | San Francisco and Palo Alto, California

Twitch | San Francisco, California

TenMarks | Burlingame, California

https://www.amazon.jobs/en/locations/san-francisco-bay-area-ca

EDIT: But I think we're a long shot. Too expensive, housing crisis, angry NIMBYs etc.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

again, i think you are seriously underestimating the impact this will have. as i said, talk to someone who lived through the transformation of Seattle from the late 90s til present day and get their thoughts on the changes...i can assure you they wont be positive. or look at the transformation of SF or London from previously egalitarian cities to wealth ghettos, and i can assure you the same can happen here.

I've live nearly all my life in Seattle and I love it. It's not that I work in construction. The bigger and more urban this place gets, the better. I do own my own place though.

Chicago would never turn into a NY/London price-wise. Their prices are due to limits on supply. Seattle is fairly expensive but nothing like them for the same reason. Chicago would be like Seattle's prices at worst due to having tons of available land.

It'll take a big city to handle 50,000 of these jobs without being dominated. A multiplier might be 3:1 on jobs so it could be about 200,000, some being net additive. That would be 400,000 residents. If 1/2 of that is net additive (I have no idea) that's a lot even for a metro of 4,000,000.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by Chef

Not necessarily. The boom that happened in Seattle and the Bay Area over the last 25 years was of no benefit to the working class or non-tech middle class workers who lived there. It made everything more expensive, and as a result they are now worse off or have left. Cities that were once bohemian and interesting are now tech monocultures. It is now happening in Austin too. The main beneficiaries are people who moved in from the outside. The people who already lived there get mostly negative impacts. We have watched that phenomenon here from afar and can see how it plays out. Why should the potentially displaced endorse the process that is going to displace them?

Minneapolis already has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. People here worry more about gentrification and the increasing cost of living than they do about finding a job.

+1 from another in the Twin Cities.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by ReeWee

Lol maarta. Really? REALLY?

whats wrong with marta, noobie?

[nature's calling]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Yeah, MARTA is not a selling point for ATL.

As underutilized as MARTA is, this is a bit of a reach.

[bnk]

The whole 7 point argument is worth the read from marothisu but you would have to go to the Chicago business link I provided earlier in this thread to read it. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=225033&page=24

Originally Posted by marothisu

...

...

7) They apparently want some incentives. I don't buy the "it doesn't bode well for Chicago/Illinois" thing actually. I think that people are too used to a corporate HQ moving here with only 100 people. If that were the case then I'd completely and utterly agree. However, we are talking about 50K people here and that works out well for the state and city well enough to offer incentives.

At the peak let's say the average worker gets $100K per year and there are 50K workers - at a (upcoming) 4.95% income tax rate in Illinois, that means the state will be getting an extra nearly $250M per year in income tax revenue alone. After 10 years, that's nearly $2.5B. This isn't counting anything else - let's say those 50K workers spend an average of $2000 per year in the city of Chicago on things at the highest sales tax - that's over $10M per year in sales tax revenue for the city. Then you factor in all the business visitors and hotel taxes - say you get 1000 business travelers to Chicago per week at an average of $250 per night - that's another over $2M in hotel tax revenue. This isn't even counting people buying and the property tax that comes with that. Point being, with this many people in the long run the state and city would definitely benefit from giving something like a tax break. If this was just 100 corporate C-suite people then I'd totally agree that it doesn't work in the favor of the city state. This is vastly different though.

Depending on what type of break they'd be offered, this could basically in the end even it up in the fairly short term and in the long run definitely work in the city's favor. What's the alternative? 0 new workers and $0 in new taxes for the city and state. Or...you could get 50K pretty well paid workers and get tons of new tax revenue from the workers alone - not even counting business taxes. Chicago and Illinois don't have to offer up actual money right now. They offer up in the form of tax breaks. If Amazon doesn't come here, the city and state gets $0. It's completely in their best interest in this case to offer reasonable incentives to Amazon.

This whole post was great ... There's ways of giving incentive without writing Billion dollar checks ala Foxconn scam.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by YSL

Without being flamed, why is Atlanta always mentioned on this thread? Why would they want to be in Atlanta and what is the attraction? If they were going for 'cheap', why would they pick it over Dallas? Dallas has a bigger tech industry than Atlanta and is probably cheaper.

atlanta is more of a college town than dallas - gatech, emory, ga state, the hbcu's and even kennesaw state/southern polytechnic. there's a lot of talent that graduates here and then leaves the area. i'd agree that dallas has a bigger tech industry but it isn't that much bigger. (though i did move there for a bit for my first serious dev job) i'd also say it's relatively more liberal, especially taking the whole metro into account.

Originally Posted by JManc

This thread is like a who's who of local chambers of commerce preening over how well their respective areas' are shovel ready for the next big thing.

hear hear. we should tally up the number of boosters per city, lol. don't count me.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by ardecila

^ dude, Chicago topped out in 1950 with just under 1 million MORE people than live in the city today. That was before the city had annexed land in the northwest side, before we had expressways, and before downtown grew into a residential juggernaut.

If Amazon did add 50k employees in the city, all at once, and each one of those employees brought their spouse and child with them, the city would still have the bones for another 750,000 people.

thats not really an apples to apples comparison. a lot of smaller population size is due to smaller families in the modern era. no one is cramming 5 kids into a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment, which was not necessarily uncommon in pre-war urban America. today you have rich single dudes renting the same 1 bedroom apartments, which does not necessarily contribute to density but does still drive up demand.

[matt777]

Dallas hits all the points they need, especially the business and tax friendly environment which they seem to have made paramount. Dallas has the strong tech workforce (same size as Chicago, in the 80,000 range). It has lots of available urban sites near a new/underdeveloped but growing mass transit system (most miles of light rail in the US plus new streetcar lines) that can grow with Amazon, and an upcoming Japanese bullet train to Houston with Austin/SA in the next phases down the road. One of the most well connected airports in the world (in the 200+ destination club) with tons of Asia, Europe, and Latin America service. A large population (7+ million) that grows by 500 newcomers every day. Tech is big and is in Dallas' blood (the microchip was invented in Dallas, don't forget) as well as retail/consumer services in its blood (huge retail corporate base to poach from, as well as the presence of Dallas Market Center which is the known as the world's most complete wholesale trade center). Remember, Amazon is a retail company at heart and is becoming even more so every day as they expand into new retail segments. The city has changed drastically for the better over the last 10 years in respect to quality of life, urban life, transit, and continues to improve on parks with the upcoming Trinity River major park plan. The employees of Amazon would have a diverse choice of living options from urban millenial type neighborhoods with a cool factor (Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, The Cedars, East Dallas, Downtown CBD) to polished upscale urban neighborhoods like Uptown and Lakewood, or if they want a family suburb then some of the best suburbs in the country are within a reasonable driving distance or a breezy train commute from places like Plano. Dallas neighborhoods are diverse and there is something for everyone. It is not a cultural monolith.

And on top of it all, Dallas is a "make it happen" city with an entrepreneurial spirit. The city and its people will bend over backwards to welcome Amazon and help them achieve there goals. You won't hear a "WE DON'T WANT IT HERE" like you would from people in Austin, Chicago, NY, and others. 100 years ago, Dallas was a small and relatively unknown city of ~100,000 and today only 100 years later it is the center of the country's 4th most populous metro area, DFW. To pull off this grandly scaled ambitious project, Amazon will need a city that can build an entire new city within a city in a very short time frame. Dallas thinks big.


Credit: Yelp, https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/beTvT7pe243iUDFWY5fJjg/o.jpg

Dallas will roll out the red carpet. Toyota chose the DFW area, and they are one of the smartest and most efficient companies in the world. They did their homework and DFW won big for them. Of course, they chose a suburban location as their product is automobiles, but many of their relocating employees have chosen urban residential choices closer to the city and commute out to Plano for work. And the others who wanted suburban style living have been overjoyed as to what they could get for their money in the burbs, so it worked out for everyone. Toyota anticipated 60% of their employees would choose to relocate to DFW, but they were pleasantly surprised when 75% made the move.

I'd say Denver is also a contender, but their airport does not have nearly the amount of international (and domestic) connections and airlines that DFW has. Not even close. It also has less than half of the population of the DFW Metroplex (Denver has 2.9 million, DFW has between 7-8 million).

Austin has recently acquired Whole Foods, but there is no way they can absorb 50,000 new jobs quickly and frankly most people there would not want it. The cool Austin of the past is gone and it is now just like any other US city, except with a fake manufactured culture that has some resemblance to the actual funky culture that used to exist there. It's also mega overvalued when it comes to real estate prices and the city regulations keep on growing.

Chicago might be up there too, but has had a hard time keeping population. It would be great for the city though, I just don't know if it would be great for Amazon's needs. On top of that, there's the unfortunately high crime rate and massive regulation and taxes. I hope Chicago can improve on these points and I'm definitely rooting for them! Can't change those brutal winters, though!

It's probable that Dallas will use Mark Cuban, one of it's most prolific entrepreneurs, in its pitch:
Mark Cuban promotional video for Dallas biz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ttQVDY0AQ

[bnk]

Those Texas summers are just too brutal.

Anyway some locations suggested by a reporter in the know.


http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/prime-real-estate-amazon-looks-for-2nd-headquarters/



Could Amazon deliver new HQ to Chicago? Emanuel is making his pitch
Business 09/07/2017, 05:41pm

Mayor Rahm Emanuel has had several conversations with CEO Jeff Bezos about putting Amazon's second headquarters in Chicago, according to a City

Fran Spielman


Mayor Rahm Emanuel is pitching Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos about building the company’s second North American headquarters in Chicago amid speculation that the e-commerce giant may be eyeing the North Branch industrial corridor.


Competition for the $5 billion prize and as many as 50,000 jobs is certain to be intense. But Emanuel, a former White House chief of staff with a national reputation, is hoping he has the clout to bring the bonanza home.
Mayoral spokesman Grant Klinzman disclosed Thursday that Emanuel has had several conversations with Bezos about choosing Chicago for a project the company has described as a “full equal” to its sprawling Seattle headquarters.

Klinzman refused to say what, if any, city subsidies Emanuel was prepared to offer Amazon to bring the project to Chicago.
“Chicago’s unmatched workforce, world-class universities and unparalleled access to destinations throughout the world make it the perfect headquarters location for companies large and small. That’s also why Chicago has led the nation in corporate relocations for the last four years,” Klinzman wrote in an email to the Sun-Times.

Ald. Brian Hopkins (2nd) said Amazon is,” Hopkins said.


“one of the companies rumored to be interested” in the North Branch Industrial corridor.
That’s 760 acres of protected industrial land near the Chicago River that the City Council recently opened to residential and commercial use.
Hopkins said there is plenty of land available and the North Branch makes more sense than any other site because of its proximity to the Loop.
“The new workforce wants to live and work in an urban community that has everything to offer their lifestyle. It’s recent college graduates who want to live and work in campus-like environments
...

Other possibilities in Chicago include: the Old Main Post Office; the Michael Reese Hospital site; a 62-acre South Loop parcel and the McCormick Place East site that Emanuel offered to demolish in a failed attempt to keep the Lucas Museum in Chicago.
Cities have until next month to apply through a special website, and the company said it will make a final decision next year.

It didn’t hint about where it might land, but its requirements could rule out some places: It wants to be near a metropolitan area with more than a million people; be able to attract top technical talent; be within 45 minutes of an international airport; have direct access to mass transit; and wants to be able to expand that headquarters to as much as 8 million square feet in the next decade. That’s about the same size as its current home in Seattle. Co-headquarters, though, often come about as a result of mergers.
“We want to find a city that is excited to work with us and where our customers, employees, and the community can all benefit,” the company said on its search website, about why it was choosing its second headquarters through a public process.
...


Amazon plans to hire 2,000 Illinois workers over the next 14 months, pushing the online retail giant’s employment statewide to 7,000, said Kathleen Carroll, who heads Amazon’s recruitment efforts.
The hiring for full-time jobs is to be spread across nine Amazon fulfillment centers, the company’s downtown corporate office, its Lake View bookstore, an AmazonFresh site and a University of Illinois-Chicago campus pickup service.
Amazon’s current campus in Seattle has 33 buildings and 24 restaurants and is home to more than 40,000 employees. At the second headquarters, Amazon said it will hire up to 50,000 new full-time employees over the next 15 years who would have an average pay of more than $100,000 a year.

...

[Barbarossa]

I think they'll go with Toronto or Chicago, maybe even Montreal. Good mass transit, robust commuter train lines, and massive airports with destinations worldwide. If it gets too expensive they can simply put there headquarters outside of downtown.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by summersm343

The way I read the RFP, it's going to be hard for a lot of cities being mentioned to meet the demands and needs of Amazon HQ2. They're asking for so much, a city just simply needs this stuff in place already.

Here are some requirements and preferences from the RFQ:
-An urban or downtown campus
-A similar layout to Amazon’s Seattle campus
-A development-prepped site. We want to encourage states/provinces and communities to think creatively for viable real estate options, while not negatively affecting our preferred timeline

Building sites:
- Amazon is considering greenfield sites, infill sites, existing buildings, or a combination for the Project. If existing buildings are available that can be retrofitted/expanded within an acceptable budget and time schedule, Amazon may consider this option; however, the company acknowledges that existing buildings may not be available to meet its requirements. As such, Amazon will prioritize certified or shovel-ready greenfield sites and infill opportunities with appropriate infrastructure and ability to meet the Project’s timeline and development demands, as set forth below.
1. Existing buildings of at least 500,000+ sq. ft., meeting the core requirements described above and that are expandable or have additional options for developmentnearby.
2. A greenfield site of approximately 100 acres certified or pad ready, with utility infrastructure in place. The sites do not have to be contiguous, but should be in proximity to each other to foster a sense of place and be pedestrian-friendly.
3. Other infill, existing buildings, including opportunities for renovation/redevelopment and greenfield sites, meeting the proximity and logistics requirements of the Project. This can also be a combination of the above.
4. Please also consider the overall proximity of the buildings at full build-out as you are making recommendations.

Campus/site explanation:
At full build-out, the campus or park may exceed 8 million square feet and over $5 billion in total capital investment. Amazon will continue to invest in its facilities to ensure we offer a state-of-the-art workplace for our employees. States, provinces and metro economic development organizations should consider this as they suggest potential sites. Be
sure to include opportunities to cultivate local culture and creativity into the Amazon HQ2 site. Also, include connectivity options: sidewalks, bike lanes, trams, metro, bus, light rail, train, and additional creative options to foster connectivity between buildings/facilities.

Key Preferences and Decision Drivers
Labor Force – The Project includes significant employment requirements at the threshold compensation levels described herein and with corresponding educational attainment of the available workforce. The Project must be sufficiently close to a significant population center, such that it can fill the 50,000 estimated jobs that will be required over multiple years. A highly educated labor pool is critical and a strong university system is required.

Logistics – Personnel travel and logistics needs, both from population centers to the Project site, as well as between company facilities, are critically important. As such, travel time to a major highway corridor and arterial roadway capacity potential are key factors. The highway corridors must provide direct access to significant population centers with eligible employment pools. Travel time to an international airport with daily direct flights to Seattle, New York, San Francisco/Bay Area, and Washington, D.C. is also an important consideration.

Time to Operations – The Project requires an expeditious timetable for the location decision and the commencement of construction. Given this, sites with the requisite access, utility infrastructure, and zoning are critical. Please outline the permitting process and estimated timetable to initiate Phase I of our operations.

Cultural Community Fit – The Project requires a compatible cultural and community environment for its long-term success. This includes the presence and support of a diverse population, excellent institutions of higher education, local government structure and elected officials eager and willing to work with the company, among other attributes. A stable and consistent business climate is important to Amazon. Please demonstrate characteristics of this in your response. We encourage testimonials from other large companies.

Community/Quality of Life – The Project requires a significant number of employees. We want to invest in a community where our employees will enjoy living, recreational opportunities, educational opportunities, and an overall high quality of life. Tell us what is unique about your community.

Reading this, I couldn't help but think of Sacramento's Railyards project. It is in such early stages that I think this would be the perfect site with direct access to light-rail, interstate, and Amtrak (all abutting the Railyards with light rail running through it). As far as tech talent, there is already a large pool in Sacramento..but, there are PLENTY of people looking to escape the Bay Area (and some who already have) by heading to Sacramento. It is relatively inexpensive for the West Coast with all of the urban amenities and very little natural disaster risk. Plus, it is the state capital of the largest state (5th largest economy in the world) and the state may be willing to throw money, resources, tax breaks, etc to move this forward.

There may be some issues with educational opportunities (although UC Davis is 15 miles away). I can also see there being some issue with housing, though, as with anywhere in California...and this would probably be a death knell. But, if they could figure this out, Sacramento could be a dark horse contender.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by mhays

I've live nearly all my life in Seattle and I love it. It's not that I work in construction. The bigger and more urban this place gets, the better. I do own my own place though.

this is the total opposite reaction of everyone i know who has lived in Seattle long term. most people are not skyscraper fanboys studying density charts on their friday evenings. they just want interesting places to live that are affordable to the middle class, and Amazon has directly contributed to making seattle largely unattainable to everyone other than highly paid tech workers.

also, renters are a massive component of the modern city (increasingly so as younger people push of home buying longer). simply shrugging off their situation is not productive to maintaining a viable healthy city.

i am not opposed to growth, its necessary. but i am a fan of measured incremental growth. a 50K influx all at once is going to fundamentally change what it means to live in whatever city it is that wins this. and it will not all be for the best.

[JMKeynes]

This will be awarded to the city that gives the most money. However, money aside, NY leads by a mile:

1. Unparalleled flight connections to the world.

2. Along with Boston, shortest flights to Europe and the Middle East.

3. Along with Boston, unparalleled universities. In fact, NY blows Boston
away when nearby Princeton and Yale are included.

4. Bezos has a $30m apartment here.

5. Amazon just bought a building across from the ESB.

6. Amazon is opening two bookstores here.

7. Amazon just announced a huge new facility in SI.

8. NY is the financial and cultural capital of the world.

Amazon could build a campus here!

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

This will be awarded to the city that gives the most money. However, money aside, NY leads by a mile:

1. Unparalleled flight connections to the world.

2. Along with Boston, shortest flights to Europe and the Middle East.

3. Along with Boston, unparalleled universities. In fact, NY blows Boston
away when nearby Princeton and Yale are included.

4. Bezos has a $30m apartment here.

5. Amazon just bought a building across from the ESB.

6. Amazon is opening two bookstores here.

7. Amazon just announced a huge new facility in SI.

8. NY is the financial capital of the world.

Hudson Yards would be a perfect fit imo.

[matt777]

Originally Posted by bnk

Those Texas summers are just too brutal.

Hmmmm... well us Texans find plenty of ways to have outdoor enjoyment in the summer. Pool culture is huge here, and nearly all apartment buildings have pools. The urban apartment buildings in the city all have gorgeous resort style pools that make you feel like you're on vacation. It's always nice to spend some time with friends at the pool, with some cold alcoholic beverages, and meet your neighbors! Local lakes and kayaking, paddle boarding, and boating/fishing are big too. Some of my friends rent party boats on Lake Lewisville for summer birthdays and it's always a great time. Lots of nearby lakes with cabins on AirBnB for quick fishing trip getaways.

I can't say there's the same opportunity to enjoy the brutal winters in Chicago, having seen quite a few midwestern winters myself. You're pretty much stuck bundling up indoors.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Hudson Yards would be a perfect fit imo.

I agree.