Manitoba | Highways

[drew]

The length will be higher than 20km right? Plus I think one or two interchanges in there as well.

[harls]

Originally Posted by drew

The length will be higher than 20km right? Plus I think one or two interchanges in there as well.

500 million to complete the twinning (including a couple of simple interchanges) seems like a perfectly cromulent number.

[Dengler Avenue]

I do wonder how much M.T.I. has to pay to expropriate cottages…

[bomberjet]

Re: PTH 1 twinning. I'm going by people telling me things. People who are in the industry but not directly the people doing the work. But people who are directly adjacent to the people doing the work.

Hoping its on the smaller end of that scale.

Like its not in the zero to $100 million range. Not in the $100 to $500 million range. But in the over $500 million range.

Its about 18km from freedom road to the weigh scale. Hoping they do interchange for the whole thing. Thats only like 3 interchnage and the overpass. But again going by the price tags for say CPT in the City. That gets the twinning closer to the billion dollar price tag IMO.

[drew]

If the route for the twinning goes north of Barren Lake, the distance will increase a bit.

Maybe material costs will be a big factor. The ON side can just blast away and get all the road bed they need, right on site, or stockpile it. The MB side once you get past the two hills just east of Westhawk are low lying, without a lot of blasting opportunities, so you are trucking in everything.

[drew]

^ you love to trot this project out. However here are the quick facts from your link:

Quick Facts:
the project was announced in 2017 and construction began in 2019
eight new bridges and nine roundabouts were built

This was tendered at least 6 (or possibly 9) years ago, and pre-covid. It sounds like a great deal, but we would need some factoring of the numbers to account for the rather extreme inflationary pricing increases over the time since 2017. Not withstanding the various other differences in geography between NS and MB.

[Dengler Avenue]

Actually, can someone pull up the maps for the surface and bedrock geology of the area? Borehole data will be a plus.

[bomberjet]

Haha well they do have a website with docs. But it's years old for most projects now.

[Carboy15]

https://steinbachonline.com/articles/pro...ic-lights-at-busy-steinbach-intersection

Hope this comes true

[Carboy15]

https://steinbachonline.com/articles/pro...s-further-twinning-of-highways-52-and-59

[bomberjet]

Still early days on the PTH 59/52 twinning. At least some news on the project continuing to move forward. Thanks for sharing the update.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Still early days on the PTH 59/52 twinning. At least some news on the project continuing to move forward. Thanks for sharing the update.

Although construction is at least 4 years away, I'm really hoping this will be the time that 59 and 52 get twinned. They've been contemplating that for more than 20 years already and nothing yet. Hopefully next year they will release the design drawings to EngageMB.

[bomberjet]

The fact they're doing the study is great. But the Province has been considering doing many things for decades upon decades lol. So as usual I'll take the approach of until dirt is being moved, it aint happening lol

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The fact they're doing the study is great. But the Province has been considering doing many things for decades upon decades lol. So as usual I'll take the approach of until dirt is being moved, it aint happening lol

Totally. It's like this with most projects. They plan to do it, do a study, and they forget about it afterward. Highway 59 has been head on traffic for years already. Kind of disappointing they didn't add any passing lanes as a temporary measure to keep traffic moving.

Highway 52 is probably more dangerous because its on a correction line. Therefore lots of access points will have to be consolidated. There too, they could've started by adding service roads to improve local access to businesses and acreages. It will obviously be done when twinning starts. Thankfully the distance between the road and the houses are further apart, so service roads could easily be installed with a twinned roadway.

[Carboy15]

I am curious what twinning will come first? Highway 59 North from Scanterbury to Highway 12? Or Highway 59 and 52?

I feel like Highway 59 and 52 should come first due to commuter traffic. And Highway 12 and 1 (fromn Steinbach to Winnipeg) are outgrowing their capacity. But going towards Grand Beach Highway 59 is mostly seasonal traffic. But maybe once roads get built to go to the Northern Reserves (say St Theresa Point), Highway 59 won't just be a seasonal route, it will have some real connection purpose.

[bomberjet]

Which one has higher traffic counts? Which one has more safety incidents. That is the one.

Personal opinion. 59 to the grand beach turnoff should've been twinned decades ago.

[Carboy15]

https://www.steinbachonline.com/articles/roundabout-construction-scheduled-for-this-year

Great that we're finally getting a roundabout at 206 @ 311. Local traffic has increased on 311, but it also doubles down as a Bypass for Highway 52 which is outgrowing its capacity. So really if we need a roundabout on a secondary Highway and the primary roads lack modern upgrades, it's a sign that it is needed.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Which one has higher traffic counts? Which one has more safety incidents. That is the one.

Personal opinion. 59 to the grand beach turnoff should've been twinned decades ago.

59 from 210 to 52 should have also been twinned decades ago. AADT between 210 and 52 on 59 is more than double of the traffic to the beaches. I know there's huge seasonality to it, with summer Friday afternoons or Sunday evenings on 59 by the beaches is probably much worse, but on average 59 south of Winnipeg is probably the bigger problem.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mti/traffic/mhtis/flowmap_2023.pdf

I know the province has talked twinning, and we've generally focused on twinning 59 towards the beaches in this forum. But do we feel the province could get away with 2+1 the whole distance between Brokenhead and the Grand Beach turnoff (or even Albert Beach)?

The AADT of that stretch is similar to highway 16 where that 2+1 was successfully implemented. It massively reduces ROW and expropriation needs, which means lower costs, so timelines don't have to be some distant thought. It might not be sufficient for Friday afternoon or Sunday evening summer traffic, but may reduce the amount of people making a risky pass at those times when they've lost patience with an RV going 80km/h.

Assuming it's sufficient, it'll probably be an adequate solution for a long time. A lot of the land up there is protected from development, and there isn't anything massive development happening, unlike southeast Manitoba that has been booming and seems to be continuing in that direction for the foreseeable future

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by WildCake

59 from 210 to 52 should have also been twinned decades ago. AADT between 210 and 52 on 59 is more than double of the traffic to the beaches. I know there's huge seasonality to it, with summer Friday afternoons or Sunday evenings on 59 by the beaches is probably much worse, but on average 59 south of Winnipeg is probably the bigger problem.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mti/traffic/mhtis/flowmap_2023.pdf

I know the province has talked twinning, and we've generally focused on twinning 59 towards the beaches in this forum. But do we feel the province could get away with 2+1 the whole distance between Brokenhead and the Grand Beach turnoff (or even Albert Beach)?

The AADT of that stretch is similar to highway 16 where that 2+1 was successfully implemented. It massively reduces ROW and expropriation needs, which means lower costs, so timelines don't have to be some distant thought. It might not be sufficient for Friday afternoon or Sunday evening summer traffic, but may reduce the amount of people making a risky pass at those times when they've lost patience with an RV going 80km/h.

Assuming it's sufficient, it'll probably be an adequate solution for a long time. A lot of the land up there is protected from development, and there isn't anything massive development happening, unlike southeast Manitoba that has been booming and seems to be continuing in that direction for the foreseeable future

Agreed. Highway 59 between 210 and 52, along with 52 itself should've been twinned decades ago. I jokingly say that they're numbered correctly because 59 and 52 indicites by how many years the Highways are out of date. Those areas just can't cop out anymore by doing a 2+1 Highway.

59 between Scanterbury South through the reserve to maybe a KM North of Bear Rd could be a divided 4-lane Highway. Within the reserve between the two signalized Intersections could be a narrow Boulevard with a raised median, which would make sense for traffic calming and pedestrian safety. Scanterbury North and Victoria Beach could get away with being a 2+1 the whole length with divided major Intersections.

[bryan_ca]

You rarely see a post about Manitoba roads on social media, so I'm reposting it. Not sure whether the guy's data regarding the Ontario road closures is accurate. I'm sure he'll be happy when Manitoba twins its remaining short segment, as will we all.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1239167345031366