General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Ttown5

What's this talk about a new reactor at PV? I have not heard of this and I am not sure that is what is being proposed. Are you referring to the three AZ entities discussing new nuclear in the valley?

There is a group looking at modular reactors (small easier to get approved) like they built in GA about 2 years ago. but they are also talking about a 4th reactor to Palo Verde

https://www.12news.com/video/news/lo...2-49051fe98162

[azcats]

...if Axion (?) can't get built at the 101 and Hayden...can you imagine what would happen if ADOT proposed to build that 303 to extend east towards Pinnacle Peak...Tatum Ranch...Cave Creek? Wouldn't be pretty.

To young investors: Look at New River...and even out west towards Wickenburg. When TSMC invests that additional $100 Billion - those community values will skyrocket. Mostly just dirt now. So was most of Phoenix 50 years ago.

Originally Posted by Obadno

I have thought about this quite a bit You could (it would require buying some recently built homes and APTS0 snake the 303 east through north phoenix/north Scottsdale and have it loop down to meet the 101 around 64th street fairly easily.

Would for sure help people living in the far north of the city commute around cut about 10 mins of surface street driving for many

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by azcats

...if Axion (?) can't get built at the 101 and Hayden...can you imagine what would happen if ADOT proposed to build that 303 to extend east towards Pinnacle Peak...Tatum Ranch...Cave Creek? Wouldn't be pretty.

To young investors: Look at New River...and even out west towards Wickenburg. When TSMC invests that additional $100 Billion - those community values will skyrocket. Mostly just dirt now. So was most of Phoenix 50 years ago.

The difference is that any route that would meet the 101 at 64th Street would pass entirely through Phoenix city limits. There might be some opposition, particularly if sensitive pristine desert land is involved, but nowhere near the level of NIMBYism that is common in Scottsdale.

[Ttown5]

Originally Posted by Obadno

There is a group looking at modular reactors (small easier to get approved) like they built in GA about 2 years ago. but they are also talking about a 4th reactor to Palo Verde

https://www.12news.com/video/news/lo...2-49051fe98162

Thanks! Lots to be discussed here, however I think that the major reasons this is likely to not occur at this specific location is due to water needs and permitting. Unless they are looking to decommission these old reactors after their extensions run out in roughly 2050 and keep the smaller reactors. That is very possible. Thanks again!

[muertecaza]

US Census yearly estimates:

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...numeric-growth

Maricopa County: #3 for numeric growth at 57,471

Phoenix Metro: #6 for numeric growth at 84,938

Every county in Arizona gained population except Apache County.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

US Census yearly estimates:

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...numeric-growth

Maricopa County: #3 for numeric growth at 57,471

Phoenix Metro: #6 for numeric growth at 84,938

Every county in Arizona gained population except Apache County.

Seems like we we're just getting warmed up to 5M and now we're already approaching 5.25M for the metro. Wild growth ride.

[azcats]

That is the latest/ recent thing. Going beyond the regular metro area. Every major metro area - they now include this CSA. Metro Phoenix used to be just Maricopa County. Now, for CSA...it includes Pinal County (Florence, Coolidge, Casa Crande, and Maricopa, etc.) So, Maricopa County has 4.7 million combined with Pinal County's 500,000: 5.2 million (2024). For 2025 - even more...now. It also includes Payson Micropolitan area (Gila County) - roughly, 60,000. If they are going to include Payson...should include Prescott/ Yavapai County. Just as close to Phoenix as Payson. Actually...more so. Yavapai County includes parts of Peoria - northern part of city. Prescott and Prescott Valley have way more people than Payson...and Yavapai County has 250,000. At this rate - Phoenix CSA will be pushing 6 million by 2030. Phoenix CSA is currently #13 - on track to surpass #12 Detroit in a few years. A far cry from when in early 1950s - Maricopa County had 350,000 - and Pinal County had more creosote bushes - than anything else. Since then, Phoenix metro/ CSA has probably grown the fastest of all major metros/ CSA - percentage wise - including Atlanta/ Dallas/ Miami. L.A./ Riverside/ San Bernadino/ Ventura Counties: roughly 20 million - but, has slowed down. Ask me about Scottsdale...Phoenix...in the 1960s and 1970s - you would be shocked. Mesa was then only 30,000 - mostly all Mormon. Now, 500,000! Quality of life - way better back then. Scottsdale was a great place to grow up! It was a sweet town - with some fantastic resorts - my first jobs - as a teenager! Tempe - just ASU. Chandler: farms and San Marcos Hotel. Gilbert: didn't exist. West side: Luke Air Force Base and the Blue Angels!

Boston CSA includes all of Rhode Island (Providence is only 45 miles from
Boston)...out west to Worcester...and all of southern New Hampshire: 8.5 million.

Dallas-Fort Worth CSA extends all the way into southern Oklahoma: Nearly 9 million in their CSA!

Atlanta CSA includes extending north nearly to the Tennessee border; northeast to the South Carolina border; and southwest to the Alabama border: 7.3 million!

Philadelphia CSA includes all of Delaware; southern New Jersey; and way north and west of Philly: 7.5 million.

Originally Posted by locolife

Seems like we we're just getting warmed up to 5M and now we're already approaching 5.25M for the metro. Wild growth ride.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

The 303 Freeway already becomes Sonoran Desert Drive east of I-17. It continues as a parkway until it ends at Tatum Boulevard. As suggested, it looks like that road could be continued southeast to meet the 101 at the 64th St. alignment. Most of the route would be through land that is neither developed nor protected at this time.

Sonoran Desert Parkway actually ends at Cave Creek Rd - between Jomax and Dynamite. The eventual plan is that it would align with Black Mtn Parkway (basically 40th st) and connect to where that currently terminates at Pinnacle Peak. This was done due instead of extending the 303 all the way out to SR-87 as originally proposed - along the Dynamite Rd corridor more or less. (Was strongly opposed by every community along its path.) So this will essentially connect L303 to at least SR-51 by way of a parkway vs freeway. Whether or not they could add additional transition lanes to The L101 E/W from that seems questionable.

In the early 2000s, there was an alternative proposed for I17 that would have extended SR-51 all the way up through the north valley, essentially through the Prescott area and then up to I-40 as an alternative to just adding lanes to 17.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by azcats

...if Axion (?) can't get built at the 101 and Hayden...can you imagine what would happen if ADOT proposed to build that 303 to extend east towards Pinnacle Peak...Tatum Ranch...Cave Creek? Wouldn't be pretty.

To young investors: Look at New River...and even out west towards Wickenburg. When TSMC invests that additional $100 Billion - those community values will skyrocket. Mostly just dirt now. So was most of Phoenix 50 years ago.

I see this happening to the NW valley as a result of TSMC...

SR-74 becomes freeway that eventually connects to I-11 (this is currently planned but not designed/scheduled - though right of way is being purchased). I-11 has a planned spur into the Prescott area that would run through Peeples Valley.

Considering that - it would be entirely a reasonable commute, via freeway to commute in from Peeples Valley to TSMC - maybe 30/45 min. So I could see that area growing quite a bit. Definitely commuting in from Morristown or Wickenburg would be totally reasonable. If we were smart we'd get ahead of this and plan from commuter rail along SR-74 to Wickenburg and maybe points beyond eventually.

[azcats]

I'm familiar with the plans for I-11...I bought land out in Stagecoach Trails (south of Kingman) way back in the mid 90s. I had some folk thought that was pretty funny. 40 acres - it just sits there. However, when I-11 is built - running alongside there - on its way to Las Vegas...

If the state of Arizona...and/or federal officials venture into Peeples Valley...Yarnell with a thought of extending a freeway up there - they better be wearing bulletproof vests! The road is so winding and tight - going up to 4,500 feet - they don't allow big rigs to drive up there. Where the Yarnell fire memorial is - only the south flowing lane is there - the north flowing lane heading to Prescott - is separated - some boulders away.

I live on the very south end of Prescott - close to 89 south (Whitespar). It takes an hour and 15 minutes from where I live to that TSMC at the 303 and 74. When I-17 (Black Canyon Highway) is finished being widened - it may even shorten the drive. Folks living in Prescott Valley...Chino - only about 45-50 minutes. Mayer - even shorter. 51 from the 101 - going up north - to here? Wow - can't see that. They can't even widen 89 north heading up to Ash Fork/ I-40 from 69 here in Prescott: It goes through the Dells - tight drive - people heading to the Prescott Airport and Chino Valley.

Originally Posted by xymox

I see this happening to the NW valley as a result of TSMC...

SR-74 becomes freeway that eventually connects to I-11 (this is currently planned but not designed/scheduled - though right of way is being purchased). I-11 has a planned spur into the Prescott area that would run through Peeples Valley.

Considering that - it would be entirely a reasonable commute, via freeway to commute in from Peeples Valley to TSMC - maybe 30/45 min. So I could see that area growing quite a bit. Definitely commuting in from Morristown or Wickenburg would be totally reasonable. If we were smart we'd get ahead of this and plan from commuter rail along SR-74 to Wickenburg and maybe points beyond eventually.

[azcats]

Good luck with that! Carefree/ Pinnacle Peak/ Rio Verde?!? Maybe if Rio Verde is promised water access! Well...who would have thought in the 1970s there would be a freeway like the 101 - where Scottsdale Rd./ Pima/ Cactus/ and Shea?!? Like the 405 going through the Sepulveda Pass. They tore through there in the 1950s - big expensive homes in Bel Air. You couldn't pay me to live next to that. 10 clogging lanes - you practically look into their windows.

Originally Posted by xymox

Sonoran Desert Parkway actually ends at Cave Creek Rd - between Jomax and Dynamite. The eventual plan is that it would align with Black Mtn Parkway (basically 40th st) and connect to where that currently terminates at Pinnacle Peak. This was done due instead of extending the 303 all the way out to SR-87 as originally proposed - along the Dynamite Rd corridor more or less. (Was strongly opposed by every community along its path.) So this will essentially connect L303 to at least SR-51 by way of a parkway vs freeway. Whether or not they could add additional transition lanes to The L101 E/W from that seems questionable.

In the early 2000s, there was an alternative proposed for I17 that would have extended SR-51 all the way up through the north valley, essentially through the Prescott area and then up to I-40 as an alternative to just adding lanes to 17.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by azcats

I'm familiar with the plans for I-11...I bought land out in Stagecoach Trails (south of Kingman) way back in the mid 90s. I had some folk thought that was pretty funny. 40 acres - it just sits there. However, when I-11 is built - running alongside there - on its way to Las Vegas...

If the state of Arizona...and/or federal officials venture into Peeples Valley...Yarnell with a thought of extending a freeway up there - they better be wearing bulletproof vests! The road is so winding and tight - going up to 4,500 feet - they don't allow big rigs to drive up there. Where the Yarnell fire memorial is - only the south flowing lane is there - the north flowing lane heading to Prescott - is separated - some boulders away.

I live on the very south end of Prescott - close to 89 south (Whitespar). It takes an hour and 15 minutes from where I live to that TSMC at the 303 and 74. When I-17 (Black Canyon Highway) is finished being widened - it may even shorten the drive. Folks living in Prescott Valley...Chino - only about 45-50 minutes. Mayer - even shorter. 51 from the 101 - going up north - to here? Wow - can't see that. They can't even widen 89 north heading up to Ash Fork/ I-40 from 69 here in Prescott: It goes through the Dells - tight drive - people heading to the Prescott Airport and Chino Valley.

I dont think TSMC will have enough people to warrant commuter rail. We need to focus on commuter rail bringing people in from the east and west valley to downtown/temep etc.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by azcats

Good luck with that! Carefree/ Pinnacle Peak/ Rio Verde?!? Maybe if Rio Verde is promised water access! Well...who would have thought in the 1970s there would be a freeway like the 101 - where Scottsdale Rd./ Pima/ Cactus/ and Shea?!? Like the 405 going through the Sepulveda Pass. They tore through there in the 1950s - big expensive homes in Bel Air. You couldn't pay me to live next to that. 10 clogging lanes - you practically look into their windows.

Yeah, the 303 ends at I-17 due to the extremely strong opposition the proposal faced when it was being proposed. This was before the final alignment was determined. Some alignments had it running along Happy Valley Rd - ultimately they jogged it north of the Wing mountains in Peoria and along the Lone Mtn Alignment its more or less on today. Then Symington pruned back the entire freeway plan to what we have now. It's fun to think of what could have been - that entire part of town would be completely different right now. And a direct freeway connection to SR-87 would be quite interesting.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I dont think TSMC will have enough people to warrant commuter rail. We need to focus on commuter rail bringing people in from the east and west valley to downtown/temep etc.

I agree we do - though TSMC did say with the recently plans they have they will need 20000 employees. Plus whatever Apple brings to the party. Would love to see a decent commuter rail plan - but it will take decades to plan let alone build. No one is going to want 'heavy' rail in their backyard unfortunately. A decent plan would require us to put new rail in areas where there aren't even highways. Too bad a subway wouldn't work here.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by xymox

I see this happening to the NW valley as a result of TSMC...

SR-74 becomes freeway that eventually connects to I-11 (this is currently planned but not designed/scheduled - though right of way is being purchased). I-11 has a planned spur into the Prescott area that would run through Peeples Valley.

Considering that - it would be entirely a reasonable commute, via freeway to commute in from Peeples Valley to TSMC - maybe 30/45 min. So I could see that area growing quite a bit. Definitely commuting in from Morristown or Wickenburg would be totally reasonable. If we were smart we'd get ahead of this and plan from commuter rail along SR-74 to Wickenburg and maybe points beyond eventually.

The proving grounds up by Whittman are being sold, or in the early stages of being sold and will ultimately be master planned... think another Anthem.

[ChaseM]

Originally Posted by xymox

I see this happening to the NW valley as a result of TSMC...

SR-74 becomes freeway that eventually connects to I-11 (this is currently planned but not designed/scheduled - though right of way is being purchased). I-11 has a planned spur into the Prescott area that would run through Peeples Valley.

Considering that - it would be entirely a reasonable commute, via freeway to commute in from Peeples Valley to TSMC - maybe 30/45 min. So I could see that area growing quite a bit. Definitely commuting in from Morristown or Wickenburg would be totally reasonable. If we were smart we'd get ahead of this and plan from commuter rail along SR-74 to Wickenburg and maybe points beyond eventually.

I’ve always felt like there was a missed opportunity to continue the 303 east and have it turn south to directly connect to the 51. This would alleviate a significant amount of traffic on the 101, particularly for those who reside in the far north and west valley.

[plinko]

Thank you for the reminder of why I no longer live in the Valley.

When I lived there in the 80s and 90s (left in 2002) the distances were somewhat manageable. Then again, I rarely went west of I-17 or outside the 101 to the north or east.

I love Phoenix, but the idea of freeways and subdivisions stretching to places like Florence or Peeples Valley is absolutely scary to me.

Originally Posted by xymox

I see this happening to the NW valley as a result of TSMC...

SR-74 becomes freeway that eventually connects to I-11 (this is currently planned but not designed/scheduled - though right of way is being purchased). I-11 has a planned spur into the Prescott area that would run through Peeples Valley.

Considering that - it would be entirely a reasonable commute, via freeway to commute in from Peeples Valley to TSMC - maybe 30/45 min. So I could see that area growing quite a bit. Definitely commuting in from Morristown or Wickenburg would be totally reasonable. If we were smart we'd get ahead of this and plan from commuter rail along SR-74 to Wickenburg and maybe points beyond eventually.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by plinko

Thank you for the reminder of why I no longer live in the Valley.

When I lived there in the 80s and 90s (left in 2002) the distances were somewhat manageable. Then again, I rarely went west of I-17 or outside the 101 to the north or east.

I love Phoenix, but the idea of freeways and subdivisions stretching to places like Florence or Peeples Valley is absolutely scary to me.

That’s what happens in a large metro

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by plinko

Thank you for the reminder of why I no longer live in the Valley.

When I lived there in the 80s and 90s (left in 2002) the distances were somewhat manageable. Then again, I rarely went west of I-17 or outside the 101 to the north or east.

I love Phoenix, but the idea of freeways and subdivisions stretching to places like Florence or Peeples Valley is absolutely scary to me.

Big metros aren't for everyone.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by plinko

Thank you for the reminder of why I no longer live in the Valley.

When I lived there in the 80s and 90s (left in 2002) the distances were somewhat manageable. Then again, I rarely went west of I-17 or outside the 101 to the north or east.

I love Phoenix, but the idea of freeways and subdivisions stretching to places like Florence or Peeples Valley is absolutely scary to me.

Point taken, but development will never stretch continuously to Peeples Valley! Perhaps Florence as it's already close to the edges of San Tan Valley . . .