General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Ttown5

This is off topic but happens to be an area of expertise for me - nuclear is not THE solution as nuclear has shortfalls just like any other type of generation. We need a MIX for that reason. However, I think that nuclear will play a large role in decarbonizing our power system and it is vital that we support communities that are reliant on jobs and economic output from these legacy coal and natural gas plants that are going to be decommissioned in the future!

Yeah okay a mix. 80% nuclear, 10% LNG, 10% renewables on your grocery store roof.

Sounds good to me.

[muertecaza]

Reports out of Taiwan that TSMC will start its 3rd fab ahead of schedule this summer (article is auto-translated so phrasing is a little awkward:

https://money.udn.com/money/story/5612/8547102?from=edn_subcatelist_cate

TSMC traveled thousands of miles to hold a board meeting in the United States. Although only routine dividend distribution, profit sharing, hedge position adjustment and capital expenditure budget were announced after the meeting, according to investigations, TSMC Chairman and President Wei Zhejia and executives of the Arizona branch in the United States held a special communication meeting in a special room, during which three major resolutions were made.


First, the third plant in Arizona (Fab 21 p) is scheduled to be officially started in the middle of next year. Important US officials will be invited to attend the groundbreaking ceremony, and TSMC is considering planning a CoWoS packaging plant in the United States. These three major decisions are seen as TSMC's acceleration of the introduction of advanced processes to the United States.

...

According to TSMC's subsequent schedule of adding new plants to mass production in just 18 months, the third plant may start trial production in early 2027 and mass production in 2028, at least 1 to 1.5 years earlier than the original plan.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Reports out of Taiwan that TSMC will start its 3rd fab ahead of schedule this summer (article is auto-translated so phrasing is a little awkward:

https://money.udn.com/money/story/5612/8547102?from=edn_subcatelist_cate

That is really positive economic and development news for the valley. Can we get a few new high-rises downtown for TSMC US HQ?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by locolife

That is really positive economic and development news for the valley. Can we get a few new high-rises downtown for TSMC US HQ?

I dont think we will get any new office towers downtown until office demand goes up.

I quite honestly think we will see various tax incentives to rescue the commercial real estate market coming up.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Reports out of Taiwan that TSMC will start its 3rd fab ahead of schedule this summer (article is auto-translated so phrasing is a little awkward:

https://money.udn.com/money/story/5612/8547102?from=edn_subcatelist_cate

Yep if I remember correctly from a few years ago the ultimate plan for TSMC was 6 fabs, for reference the GIANT building that exists right now is fab1m fab 2 is UC and of course Fab 3 will get started soon

So what you see now is 1/6 of the final buildout, All of the land up there too between happy valley and past the carefree highway has also been gobbled up and is in the permitting/planning stages for master planned residential communities.

The total economic impact of TSMC was like 30+ billion just from direct investment and probably 5x that for everything going along with it including additional supply chain improvements for materials, chemicals etc. and of course all the homes and apartments and residential that will go into that area over the next decade or so.

just wait until the downstream impacts of all this push for domestic manufacturing, regulation removal, focus on chips/ai/robotics will do for the copper mining industry. Globe and other languishing mining towns my actually come back to life in this state.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Yep if I remember correctly from a few years ago the ultimate plan for TSMC was 6 fabs, for reference the GIANT building that exists right now is fab1m fab 2 is UC and of course Fab 3 will get started soon

So what you see now is 1/6 of the final buildout, All of the land up there too between happy valley and past the carefree highway has also been gobbled up and is in the permitting/planning stages for master planned residential communities.

The total economic impact of TSMC was like 30+ billion just from direct investment and probably 5x that for everything going along with it including additional supply chain improvements for materials, chemicals etc. and of course all the homes and apartments and residential that will go into that area over the next decade or so.

just wait until the downstream impacts of all this push for domestic manufacturing, regulation removal, focus on chips/ai/robotics will do for the copper mining industry. Globe and other languishing mining towns my actually come back to life in this state.

Yes - 6 fabs and a Foundry. What could make this interesting and perhaps alter these plans are their attempt to split up Intel between themselves and Broadcom. Not sure current administration would approve that - but I guess we'll see how this turns out. Mixed feelings here about Intel essentially breaking up...

[combusean]

Intel needs to stop wasting so much investor and government money and be put out of its misery. They are a dinosaur that thrives on their own inertia and has practically no inherent value anymore. Nobody needs chips that are better put to e-waste than in somebody's PC.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

Intel needs to stop wasting so much investor and government money and be put out of its misery. They are a dinosaur that thrives on their own inertia and has practically no inherent value anymore. Nobody needs chips that are better put to e-waste than in somebody's PC.

Yep the government has been trying to get intel cooking for decades now. A lot of times old companies need to fall apart and its working pieces bought up by others or sold off.

Its the lifecycle of large orgs from companies to actual states.

[ASU Diablo]

Apple announces plans to invest billions in Arizona

https://azbigmedia.com/business/apple-plans-500-billion-in-new-u-s-investment-including-arizona/

Apple today announced its largest-ever spend commitment, with plans to spend and invest more than $500 billion in the U.S. over the next four years, including billions in additional investments in Arizona. This new pledge builds on Apple’s long history of investing in American innovation and advanced high-skilled manufacturing, and will support a wide range of initiatives that focus on artificial intelligence, silicon engineering, and skills development for students and workers across the country.

Arizona is one of nine states where Apple specified plans to invest the more than $500 billion in new U.S. funding over the next four years. The company plans to hire 20,000 more employees as it increases investment in advanced technologies.

Possible Uses Emerge for KOREPlex Site

https://azbex.com/local-news/possible-uses-emerge-for-koreplex-site/

Stargate may be a Possibility
In an update on developments concerning KOREPlex, the Arizona Republic reported Independent Concepts Development Director Tommy Dee has said a rail hub or data center development could be a potential use for the property. Data center uses could be attractive to Stargate, the recently announced artificial intelligence initiative from OpenAI and other partners.

Arizona was one of 16 states specifically mentioned for possible Stargate locations.

The Republic reported Dee said Independent Concepts was expected to meet with Mayor Orsborn this week to discuss possible uses for the KOREPlex site.

[Obadno]

https://www.wsj.com/tech/trump-chip-make...estment-in-u-s-02a44399?mod=hp_lead_pos3

Additional 100 billion from TSMC to be announced investing in chip production in the USA, much of that can be expected to come to Arizona! That would bring the total investment in the US from TSMC at $165 Billion this decade.

WASHINGTON—Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. intends to invest $100 billion in chip manufacturing plants in the U.S. over the next four years under a plan expected to be announced later Monday by President Trump, according to people familiar with the matter.

The investment would be used to build out cutting-edge chip-making facilities. Such an expansion would advance a long-pursued U.S. goal to regrow the domestic semiconductor industry after manufacturing fled largely to Asian countries in recent decades.

TSMC, the world’s largest contract chip-maker, set down roots in Arizona in 2020, when it said it would build a chip factory there for $12 billion. Its ambitions for the site have expanded rapidly since, with two more factories on the same site and a total investment of $65 billion. The company’s first factory began mass production late last year.

TSMC’s 2330 -1.92%decrease; red down pointing triangle announcement comes after years of deliberation regarding the future of semiconductor manufacturing in the U.S. and the global tech sector. The company currently builds its most advanced chip-making facilities only on its home soil Taiwan. The chips it produces are critical for powering everything from the latest artificial-intelligence systems to smartphones.

Since the Biden administration, the U.S. has expressed concerns about TSMC’s near-monopoly on advanced chip manufacturing and has been urging the company to relocate more of its cutting-edge production, including advanced chip packaging facilities, to the U.S. Advanced chip packaging is particularly critical for AI related chips, as it enhances performance by integrating multiple semiconductor components, reducing size, improving power efficiency, and ensuring faster data transfer—key factors for AI applications.

[CrestedSaguaro]

It's bad when a moderator from another forum has to come in here and moderate ya'll.

There will be no more political discussions in this forum. Bans/suspensions will start being handed out if this continues.

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

It's bad when a moderator from another forum has to come in here and moderate ya'll.

There will be no more political discussions in this forum. Bans/suspensions will start being handed out if this continues.

THANK YOU SIR! I can go to social media or news for that other biased stuff. I rather we discuss about how this additional influx of workers and chip factory enlargements will affect infrastructure. $100 billion will attract additional residential, commercial, industrial and utility/streets demands.

State route 74 on the north side of TSMC should see significant upgrades. I hope ADOT will respond to this news with proposals on how to plan for such a large influx.

Is Anthem maxed out? Can multi-family housing be introduced west of I-17 so commute to the thousands of those new jobs is not a nightmare. Maybe secondary arteries can built west to parallel I-17 north south commutes?

Just some items coming to my little mind.

[MiEncanto]

Good questions. I do know there are a ton of apartments under construction on the E side of I-17 by Sonoran Desert Dr. Many appear newly finished or close to it. There is the 350 unit Meritum Sonoran and the Marq Bronco Butte but I can't see units total.

As an aside, TSMC owns far more than they have already moved dirt on. This place could be... astonishingly big.

I do think the Rio Vista area is primed for development. Going up the hills could provide gorgeous views of the lake and city. I realize this would be controversial, but it would be super valuable neighborhoods providing a ton of value to Phx.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Good questions. I do know there are a ton of apartments under construction on the E side of I-17 by Sonoran Desert Dr. Many appear newly finished or close to it. There is the 350 unit Meritum Sonoran and the Marq Bronco Butte but I can't see units total.

As an aside, TSMC owns far more than they have already moved dirt on. This place could be... astonishingly big.

Its going to be ASTONISHINGLY big basically the entire area north of Deer Valley road north to Carefrae highway and nearly out to lake pleasant and thats when this was a $65 billion dollar investment not a $165$ dollar investment.

What is there now is just 1 Fab. After the most recent increase in plans there will now be 9 fabs. that's right the current factory you see now is 1/9th of the full buildout for perspective.

Around this massive campus the northern riing is called Halo Vista, which is mostly industrial/office/warehouse plans to accomidate the supply chain needs of TSMC, again this was anounced when there were 6 fabs... not 9



To the south of the 303 all the way to the 101, 6300 acres are now slotted for residential/retail:




In addition to the 3 new and state of the art 2 NM chip fabs TSMC will also build 2 "packaging " facilities. Which is taking raw semiconductors and putting them on chips and in CPU's and GPU's essentially, AMKOR announced a multiple billion dollar facility in Arizona too. Again when this was half the now planned industrial investment.

IN ADDITON we are getting the US funded Chip R&D national laboratory to be located at the Discovery Business Park in Chandler AND TSMC will build its own R&D facility and Training center as well. I have no idea where these are going but likely phoenix Metro.

Arizona basically was granted over the last 6 years the ENTIRE Taiwanese chip manufacturing sector. Just consider that for a moment.

So basically we are getting the entirety of the Taiwanese chip industry, AND billions in US investments for Domestic chip expansion. AND multiple research and chip specific educational intuitions ANNND whatever else will follow which you can be is a lot.

This will completely transform our state for generations.

and that's just Chips, don't get me started on EV's, Advanced manufacturing, Import/export from Mexico, A freaking NEW NUCLEAR REACTOR FOR PALO VERDE AS WELL.

And if that wasn't enough, the overt support to again mine critical materials in America for national security reasons again began a few years back and will be doubled down on. These semi conductors need minerals mined in Globe and Claypool and Ajo and Sahuarita.

You all have no idea how pumped I am for the economic prospects of this state.

[ASU Diablo]

This latest announcement HAS to finally lead to new international flights to Asia right? RIGHT!?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

This latest announcement HAS to finally lead to new international flights to Asia right? RIGHT!?

I don't know how it couldn't, hell we should be getting North American HQ's for Asian banks and other companies at this rate.

[MMDelon]

The investment by TSMC makes Arizona one of the most important states in the union. From Deer Vallley going up towards Anthem will look vastly different by 2040. I wonder if SR 74 will need be expanded? It would be nice to have the SR. 51 connect to SR. 74, but I am not sure how that could get done.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by MMDelon

The investment by TSMC makes Arizona one of the most important states in the union. From Deer Vallley going up towards Anthem will look vastly different by 2040. I wonder if SR 74 will need be expanded? It would be nice to have the SR. 51 connect to SR. 74, but I am not sure how that could get done.

I have thought about this quite a bit You could (it would require buying some recently built homes and APTS0 snake the 303 east through north phoenix/north Scottsdale and have it loop down to meet the 101 around 64th street fairly easily.

Would for sure help people living in the far north of the city commute around cut about 10 mins of surface street driving for many

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by MMDelon

The investment by TSMC makes Arizona one of the most important states in the union. From Deer Vallley going up towards Anthem will look vastly different by 2040. I wonder if SR 74 will need be expanded? It would be nice to have the SR. 51 connect to SR. 74, but I am not sure how that could get done.

Originally Posted by Obadno

I have thought about this quite a bit You could (it would require buying some recently built homes and APTS0 snake the 303 east through north phoenix/north Scottsdale and have it loop down to meet the 101 around 64th street fairly easily.

Would for sure help people living in the far north of the city commute around cut about 10 mins of surface street driving for many

The 303 Freeway already becomes Sonoran Desert Drive east of I-17. It continues as a parkway until it ends at Tatum Boulevard. As suggested, it looks like that road could be continued southeast to meet the 101 at the 64th St. alignment. Most of the route would be through land that is neither developed nor protected at this time.

[Ttown5]

Originally Posted by Obadno

and that's just Chips, don't get me started on EV's, Advanced manufacturing, Import/export from Mexico, A freaking NEW NUCLEAR REACTOR FOR PALO VERDE AS WELL.

What's this talk about a new reactor at PV? I have not heard of this and I am not sure that is what is being proposed. Are you referring to the three AZ entities discussing new nuclear in the valley?