Manitoba | Highways

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

This NFLD underpass was awarded in 2022 though. It's current. Inflation is not relevant.

I was more-so referring to the sheer number of existing overpasses in NFLD compared to Manitoba that people were talking about.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

10.3 million to install the steel arch and road detour? Based on the imagery in the AIL webpage, there seems to be lots of elevations change already built into that area which makes everything a lot easier.

That's fair. It begs the question if TCH underpasses make more sense too. Even on flat ground. Of course it's very water table dependent.

But by digging instead of building up, you're working with virgin ground, virtually eliminating compaction and hauling in fill. Which is faster and cheaper. As for the actual bridge/tunnel portion, the process seems quite simple and fast: Dig out TCH lanes, pile-it and/or pour footings, assemble the arch, then fill it back in. This is that process the French were doing in 3-5 days total.

There's a safety aspect to underpasses too. Any interchange type creates a blind spot to approaching traffic after the bridge. Big collision risk. But with underpasses, the traffic is going up an incline, adding to their braking ability if someone cuts out from the approach. As opposed to an overpass, where they're going downhill if they need to step on the brakes, greatly reducing stopping distance. And this is only magnified on ice (which we get). Hmmm.

[Carboy15]

It only makes sense to build bridges like that. Most of the work would be done without causing road disturbances. Bridges should be manufactured ahead of time and just piece it together at the site. Maybe if they build a rail overpass East of St Annes and the Perimeter, they should use that approach.

That would also be the perfect opportunity to convert the whole Interchange at Lag @ South Perimeter into a 4 Bridge Interchange with directional ramps. Likely they would just do a cloverleaf for now, but it would make sense.

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

That's fair. It begs the question if TCH underpasses make more sense too. Even on flat ground. Of course it's very water table dependent.

But by digging instead of building up, you're working with virgin ground, virtually eliminating compaction and hauling in fill. Which is faster and cheaper. As for the actual bridge/tunnel portion, the process seems quite simple and fast: Dig out TCH lanes, pile-it and/or pour footings, assemble the arch, then fill it back in. This is that process the French were doing in 3-5 days total.

There's a safety aspect to underpasses too. Any interchange type creates a blind spot to approaching traffic after the bridge. Big collision risk. But with underpasses, the traffic is going up an incline, adding to their braking ability if someone cuts out from the approach. As opposed to an overpass, where they're going downhill if they need to step on the brakes, greatly reducing stopping distance. And this is only magnified on ice (which we get). Hmmm.

Yeah, water table and flooding would be major considerations for building underpasses in the flat, flood plain. Recent underpass builds in Winnipeg (Waverley, Plessis, etc.) all included pumping stations to deal with groundwater infiltration and high rain events.

I'm not sure how that would be dealt with in a rural area without sewer or any coordinated land drainage infrastructure...possibly constructing a retention pond somewhere nearby??

[Wpgstvsouth94]

Super random post because I was browsing Google Maps and could not resist in sharing this with you all. This would be the perfect concept forDeacon’s corner.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/yL7KD3B79sbN6tKC7?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Wpgstvsouth94

Super random post because I was browsing Google Maps and could not resist in sharing this with you all. This would be the perfect concept forDeacon’s corner.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/yL7KD3B79sbN6tKC7?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy

Are you thinking of using retaining walls or natural side slopes for the EB ramps at PTH-207? There’s drainage implication with each design.
ON-401 between Whitby and Oshawa may also inspire you.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Are you thinking of using retaining walls or natural side slopes for the EB ramps at PTH-207? There’s drainage implication with each design.
ON-401 between Whitby and Oshawa may also inspire you.

Likely it would use retaining walls on the side. Or if not, I would rather use girders similar to Billings Montana. The access points to the businesses (like the Petro) may need a slight displacement to accomidate the down ramp.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

Likely it would use retaining walls on the side. Or if not, I would rather use girders similar to Billings Montana. The access points to the businesses (like the Petro) may need a slight displacement to accomidate the down ramp.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7330077,..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDQyMC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

For reference sake. I think that makes sense. Build it as a structure. Hell, it seems a lot of the actual issues with highways these days seems to be the approaches to bridges and roadways, never bridges themselves.

[bomberjet]

It'd probably be cheaper to build MSE embankment. We'll get the cheapest possible solution.

Someone should do a cement/concrete price comparison of Winnipeg vs other Canadian/US places. There's some type of mob controlled monopoly keeping cement prices high.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

^True story. I've been saying this for years.

Question: who now owns the company in North Dakota that provided hollow core for Glasshouse? There's your likely best place to start.

[Mr Tall Forehead]

^ definitely true.

We’re a province full of limestone but concrete prices are 30% higher here than most other Canadian cities. I recall hearing they got away with using an out of province supplier for Glasshouse because it was an out of province developer.

[Biff]

I was told a big part of it is that we no longer have a cement plant in Winnipeg and all of our cement has to be brought in by train from Edmonton. There have been a couple of times in the past where Winnipeg has actually run out of cement. The majority of the cement is stored in that massive barn like building behind Costco off McGillivray. It is actually a giant bath tub for storage. I believe it is still Lafarge.

[Dengler Avenue]

Does Kenora have cements?

[Biff]

Is that like asking - does Arby's have the meats?



I think the closest cement plants in Canada are in Alberta and Southern Ontario. I believe there is a cement plant in Fargo but being in a different country makes a difference.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by Biff

I think the closest cement plants in Canada are in Alberta and Southern Ontario. I believe there is a cement plant in Fargo but being in a different country makes a difference.

Do you have any insight as to why it is supposedly cheaper and/or more efficient to have cement produced 2 provinces over and transported by train to Manitoba as opposed to producing it locally? Also, how can there be demand for cement to be produced locally in Fargo (pop: 262,000) but not locally in Winnipeg (pop: 941,000)?

Are the aggregate ingredients that go into cement just not abundant in Manitoba or too far from Winnipeg such that it's simply cheaper to train it in from Alberta and store it here?

Seems like a missed opportunity for local industry to make some profit, but I know nothing of this market so I assume the current configuration is the best option but still...

[bodaggin]

We are sitting on more Interlake Limestone than we know what to do with (Stonewall Quarry). We also have a Graymont mine near Fairford. You guys are right to question this.

Stonewall (Lafarge etc): https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Lafarge...MDQyMC4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNjM5SAFQAw%3D%3D
Fairford (Graymont): https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Graymon...MDQxNi4xIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNjM5SAFQAw%3D%3D
Lilyfield Quarry: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Lilyfie...MDQyMC4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNjM5SAFQAw%3D%3D
Springfield Quarry: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Glacial...MDQyMC4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNjM5SAFQAw%3D%3D

[kattiff]

I thought Inland Cement behind Ikea was a thing and they moved to another location ….

[bomberjet]

I got this from Google. We've got loads of lime and silica sand. It's mostly for competitive reasons from what I understand. There's a reason no new plants have been opened by any of the players. But you can see my earlier comment and that. This is what I've heard anyways.


Ingredient
Percentage in cement
Lime 60-65
Silica 17-25
Alumina 3-8
Magnesia 1-3
Iron oxide 0.5-6
Calcium Sulfate 0.1-0.5
Sulfur Trioxide 1-3
Alkaline 0-1

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by kattiff

I thought Inland Cement behind Ikea was a thing and they moved to another location ….

They closed years ago. There's no cement production in Manitoba.

I believe the Lafrage storage facility is located of McGillivray at the railway tracks.

[Dengler Avenue]

That much lime??
Can shield rocks be used for cement production?