Queen's Park Politics

[1overcosc]

Kathleen Wynne just gave the zinger of the night so far. "Maybe if you did that you'd have a platform!"

[Docere]

If the NDP is remotely in contention in Ottawa South and Ottawa West-Nepean, I'd be very interested to see the numbers for Vanier.

[Docere]

KW is doing pretty well I think - which may mean stopping the bleeding.

[swimmer_spe]

My Friends...
My Friends...


I am not his friend.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by vid

They should have to release their platform at a minimum, one full week before advance polls open. People have cast ballots already, and the front runner doesn't even have an actual platform yet. What if it contains something with which they fundamentally disagree?

I doubt his voters are the type who would read and compare party platforms. Many of them probably cannot read at all.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

I doubt his voters are the type who would read and compare party platforms. Many of them probably cannot read at all.

Let's be fair, there are lots of voters that will not ever look at the platforms and simply will vote for the same party till they die.

[kwoldtimer]

Ford was awful (are populists actually driven by contempt for the "folks", I wonder?) Horwath was very good, although I thought she could have been even tougher on Ford. Wynne was a pro and one regrets losing her as Premier. I don't think any of them did themselves any damage, although I don't see how Ford's floundering could have attracted any new voters to his camp. Horwath may have been good enough to squeeze a bit more out of the recent momentum, istm.

[saffronleaf]

Going to miss Wynne. She's been a smart and stable premier, a respectable ambassador for the province and, perhaps most importantly, the province is generally doing well.

[MolsonExport]

The Guardian on the charlatan and lizard:

Doug Ford isn’t “for the little guy” – he’s a mercenary for the millionaire class

[SteelTown]

Personally, I thought Wynne did well in the debate, calm, knowledgable and well prepared. She's certainly a policy wonk and sadly that doesn't translate well with the voters. I thought Wynne did well in highlighting Horwath weakness, she's not exactly a pro-business person, won't introduce back to work legislation, raising corporate tax and buying back Hydro One shares.

Now Ford promises the moon and stars, yet has no platform to show how it'll be financed. There's no substances to whatever Ford says.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Docere

KW is doing pretty well I think - which may mean stopping the bleeding.

Which, in so many three-way FPTP races, may have the effect of helping the PCs.

It's weird when you pause and think about that... really a quirk of our electoral system that having your rival gaining ground ends up actually benefitting you.

I recall about a decade ago our Provincial PM Charest during a campaign made an apparently clumsy declaration that was obviously going to spur nationalist-leaning voters to vote PQ... and analysts were suspecting him of having done it on purpose to try to help rebalance the vote split between the climbing (and threatening) ADQ, and traditional rival PQ that was falling at the time, by rubbing "soft" nationalists the wrong way. He never admitted to it, but I don't doubt that it was carefully thought out.

That would be the equivalent of Doug Ford subtly trying to actively boost Wynne's image in the eyes of the public at the moment, even at the cost of some red tory / blue liberal voters for his own party, if the main effect is a NDP->Lib movement.

A good strategy, just kind of weird. I sometimes dream of a political system in which such maneuvers wouldn't make good strategic sense anymore, and where all that would matter would be your share of popular support.

[Loco101]

Horwath did a great job showing how Ford has yet to answer how he will would reduce spending and balance a budget. She need to show voters that Ford isn't responsible and that he lacks the leadership to tackle tough issues, which she did. She also didn't want to be too bold as what she has done up to now has been working in her favour.

I see a lot of online comments from people who were previously undecided, leaning PC or who normally vote PC who are saying they can't support Ford and the PCs because they don't have a platform. The comments will often ask how can they claim to be better with finances yet can't say how they will be better?

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by lio45

Which, in so many three-way FPTP races, may have the effect of helping the PCs.

It's weird when you pause and think about that... really a quirk of our electoral system that having your rival gaining ground ends up actually benefitting you.

I recall about a decade ago our Provincial PM Charest during a campaign made an apparently clumsy declaration that was obviously going to spur nationalist-leaning voters to vote PQ... and analysts were suspecting him of having done it on purpose to try to help rebalance the vote split between the climbing (and threatening) ADQ, and traditional rival PQ that was falling at the time, by rubbing "soft" nationalists the wrong way. He never admitted to it, but I don't doubt that it was carefully thought out.

That would be the equivalent of Doug Ford subtly trying to actively boost Wynne's image in the eyes of the public at the moment, even at the cost of some red tory / blue liberal voters for his own party, if the main effect is a NDP->Lib movement.

A good strategy, just kind of weird. I sometimes dream of a political system in which such maneuvers wouldn't make good strategic sense anymore, and where all that would matter would be your share of popular support.

I dream of such a system as well, but also one that continues to allow majorities. My preferred solution to this is a ranked ballot. And I think this election shows that the criticism of "the Liberals will win forever then" isn't true.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by lio45

Which, in so many three-way FPTP races, may have the effect of helping the PCs.

It's weird when you pause and think about that... really a quirk of our electoral system that having your rival gaining ground ends up actually benefitting you.

I recall about a decade ago our Provincial PM Charest during a campaign made an apparently clumsy declaration that was obviously going to spur nationalist-leaning voters to vote PQ... and analysts were suspecting him of having done it on purpose to try to help rebalance the vote split between the climbing (and threatening) ADQ, and traditional rival PQ that was falling at the time, by rubbing "soft" nationalists the wrong way. He never admitted to it, but I don't doubt that it was carefully thought out.

That would be the equivalent of Doug Ford subtly trying to actively boost Wynne's image in the eyes of the public at the moment, even at the cost of some red tory / blue liberal voters for his own party, if the main effect is a NDP->Lib movement.

A good strategy, just kind of weird. I sometimes dream of a political system in which such maneuvers wouldn't make good strategic sense anymore, and where all that would matter would be your share of popular support.

Mike Harris, the former PC Premier did that in 1999 election campaign successfully. He would say "if you don't like us then you should support the NDP because at least everybody knows where they stand on issues." Harris campaigned that nobody knew where Liberal leader Dalton McGuinty stood on issues and that he wasn't "up to the job." The Liberals gained seats but not as many NDP voters shifted to the Liberals to try to get rid of the PCs who ended up winning a second majority.

[MolsonExport]

Finally, we have Doug Ford's platform:

He promised on the weekend that, as premier, he would mandate a reduction in the retail price of beer to $1 a bottle.

what a fucking bozo.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Personally, I thought Wynne did well in the debate, calm, knowledgable and well prepared. She's certainly a policy wonk and sadly that doesn't translate well with the voters. I thought Wynne did well in highlighting Horwath weakness, she's not exactly a pro-business person, won't introduce back to work legislation, raising corporate tax and buying back Hydro One shares.

Now Ford promises the moon and stars, yet has no platform to show how it'll be financed. There's no substances to whatever Ford says.

I agree. Wynne presented herself well and seemed to have the most reasoned answers to questions.

Ford had a painted on smile most of the evening. I totally agree that the PCs lack of a comprehensive platform is a major flaw in their message.

I was getting annoyed with Horwath's ongoing interruptions during the debate.

[swimmer_spe]

After watching the debate, were you swayed to another leader, or was your decision cemented?

Mine was cemented.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I agree. Wynne presented herself well and seemed to have the most reasoned answers to questions.

Ford had a painted on smile most of the evening. I totally agree that the PCs lack of a comprehensive platform is a major flaw in their message.

I was getting annoyed with Horwath's ongoing interruptions during the debate.

Horwath had to show that she wasn't going to be pushed around by Ford. She interrupted him when he made false statements about her. Ford is plain and simply a bullshitter. He a horrible debater as well. Wynne really had nothing to lose so she seamed the most at ease except for her opening statement which in my opinion suggested that if you don't like her then you should vote NDP. Wynne knows there is a possibility of a minority government and I'm sure she's rather have it led by the NDP.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

After watching the debate, were you swayed to another leader, or was your decision cemented?

Mine was cemented.

Cemented for me as well. I live in Timmins and usually vote Liberal but will be voting NDP this time.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Cemented for me as well. I live in Timmins and usually vote Liberal but will be voting NDP this time.

I am a similar voter. I live in the Greater Sudbury area, but not in the Sudbury riding.