Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes. 1st degree is intentionally planned (like a hit). 2nd degree is intent to kill, but not planned in advance.

I'd say there is an argument to be made that 2nd degree murder perpetrators are more of a danger to public safety than 1st degree murder perpetrators, but I digress.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I'd say there is an argument to be made that 2nd degree murder perpetrators are more of a danger to public safety than 1st degree murder perpetrators, but I digress.

Yeah but heat of the moment crimes are typically dealt with more leniently.

Using a gun among other things automatically makes it 1st degree too.

Back to the original point, the penalty for 2nd degree murder is not insignificant.

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by chowhou

...There's something much more heinous...

I'm pretty sure the victim was not concern about a tier or an adjective at the moment of such a personal interaction with his/her killer.
I am a victim advocate.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Zepfancouver

I'm pretty sure the victim was not concern about a tier or an adjective at the moment of such a personal interaction with his/her killer.
I am a victim advocate.

That's all well and good, but legal codes ever since Hammurabi have been crime focused, not victim focused. That's a cornerstone of the principle of rule of law.

I'm sure the people who were killed because grandma ran them over with her car don't really care about the way they got killed either, but manslaughter is considered a less serious crime than 1st or 2nd degree murder due to the huge difference in mens rea.

[logan5]

I wonder how much time this guy will actually get, because his lawyer will present him as somebody who is not mentally sound because of extended drug use, if he already isn’t or wasn’t suffering from a pre existing mental illness He will Probly be let off lightly.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by chowhou

That's all well and good, but legal codes ever since Hammurabi have been crime focused, not victim focused. That's a cornerstone of the principle of rule of law.

I'm sure the people who were killed because grandma ran them over with her car don't really care about the way they got killed either, but manslaughter is considered a less serious crime than 1st or 2nd degree murder due to the huge difference in mens rea.

a driver on Vancouver Island hit a cyclist and never stopped, the cyclist died, he could have lived had he gotten help quicker, another motorist sometime after the hit I believe stopped and helped and called it in. The driver, who is someone I actually know, has been charged with 1st Degree murder, no one seems to know why that was able to be the charge. Last I had read his court appearance was changed to a later date and I haven't heard anything more. He was charged though on Feb 11, accident was Feb 8.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...arge-1.7116955

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

a driver on Vancouver Island hit a cyclist and never stopped, the cyclist died, he could have lived had he gotten help quicker, another motorist sometime after the hit I believe stopped and helped and called it in. The driver, who is someone I actually know, has been charged with 1st Degree murder, no one seems to know why that was able to be the charge. Last I had read his court appearance was changed to a later date and I haven't heard anything more. He was charged though on Feb 11, accident was Feb 8.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...arge-1.7116955

Did a little research into this story, and it seems wild.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/homicide-inves...-run-1.6788125

"Investigators continue to canvass for any potential witnesses in relation to this incident who have yet to speak with police," B.C. RCMP spokesperson Cpl. Alex Bérubé said in the release. "Particularly, VIIMCU would like to speak with anyone who was, or spoke with the victim, Rodney Kelly, in the evening of Feb. 8, 2024, in Cumberland."

Seems the RCMP thinks a lot more happened that night far before the incident... Makes me wonder if the RCMP knows the driver and the cyclist had some interaction earlier in the night, and later when the driver saw the cyclist on the road he took his opportunity with deadly intent. If that was the sequence of events it would probably satisfy the requirements for 1st degree murder.

Meanwhile, this is what I meant, this is the kind of activity causing death that just lands you a "dangerous driving" conviction.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...jail-1.7021562

[Migrant_Coconut]

Heck, with vehicular manslaughter, you can even plead "affluenza" and get off entirely - can't do that with murder or regular manslaughter.

Re: the stabbing, it's second degree at the least, and that's 25 to life as well. Let's aim for justice instead of revenge.

[whatnext]

Reading this you have to wonder when first responders reach a breaking point:

Vancouver firefighters tackle 14 fires over 24 hours: 'Conditions are unsustainable'
In one instance, a fire was set behind a burning building firefighters were trying to extinguish
Author of the article: Nathan Griffiths
Published Jun 14, 2024

Vancouver firefighters responded to five major fires, at least seven dumpster fires and over 250 other calls during a 24-hour period this week.

The union representing the city’s firefighters said the volume of calls these days underscores the need for more resources, particularly in the downtown.

“Today’s conditions are unsustainable,” said Lee Lax, vice-president of IAFF Local 18.

“We’ve been feeling it for years,” he added.

Over a 24-hour period spanning Tuesday and Wednesday, Vancouver Fire Rescue Services said it responded to 14 fires.

Five of the fires involved “heavy smoke, heavy flames,” and an “urgent need for people inside or (who were in) a high- risk building,” said Capt. Matthew Trudeau, spokesperson for the fire service.

In one instance, crews were called to an rooming house or SRO at 1025 Granville St. — their fourth call to the building this year — to respond to a fire that had spread from a washroom to the second and third floors. While they worked to contain that fire, a second fire was set behind the building. Nobody was injured.....

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...fires-24-hours

[Migrant_Coconut]

It would appear that, as predicted by some, clearing out the Hastings tents did not lower the amount or the rate of homeless fires, and even spread them further around downtown instead of just near the DTES. Oh well.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

It would appear that, as predicted by some, clearing out the Hastings tents did not lower the amount or the rate of homeless fires, and even spread them further around downtown instead of just near the DTES. Oh well.

They just said it was a high risk situation which included problems accessing said burning SROs because of the encampments. If they did nothing that isn't going to stop idiots lighting up their room or a dumpster.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

... If they did nothing that isn't going to stop idiots lighting up their room or a dumpster.

You're not wrong. Contrary to the narrative though, the people inclined to do so haven't disappeared - they've just moved to other neighbourhoods.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

You're not wrong. Contrary to the narrative though, the people inclined to do so haven't disappeared - they've just moved to other neighbourhoods.

I'd still argue the overall situation is better than it was.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I suspect the firefighters called out roughly every two hours feel otherwise.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

You're not wrong. Contrary to the narrative though, the people inclined to do so haven't disappeared - they've just moved to other neighbourhoods.

And what if those relocated people are the ones causing SRO fires? So they can’t be housed outdoors or indoors. Do you support institutionalizing them then?

[Migrant_Coconut]

I observed that clearing out the tents on Hastings has evidently done nothing to prevent fires overall. That's it. Take your leading questions somewhere else.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I observed that clearing out the tents on Hastings has evidently done nothing to prevent fires overall. That's it. Take your leading questions somewhere else.

So no solutions then. Got it.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So no solutions then. Got it.

Does your 'solution' involve 'institutionalizing' anybody in the city who accidentaly causes a fire, or just those living in SROs? What law are you 'institutionalizing' them under? What institution(s) did you have in mind? For how long will they be institutionalized?

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I observed that clearing out the tents on Hastings has evidently done nothing to prevent fires overall. That's it. Take your leading questions somewhere else.

While the firefighters understandably feel overwhelmed, they didn’t say that clearing the tents had no effect. That’s just your speculation.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Does your 'solution' involve 'institutionalizing' anybody in the city who accidentaly causes a fire, or just those living in SROs? What law are you 'institutionalizing' them under? What institution(s) did you have in mind? For how long will they be institutionalized?

Make it a “two strikes and you’re out”. Set two fires and you’re off to Riverview for as long as takes. The discredited Kennedy Stewart/Eby decrim approach has failed.