Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Swamped by Anglophone migration from other Canadian provinces?

Maybe the Québec government would then request a special permit for other Canadians to be able to reside and work in Québec. You probably think "crazy", and yet it already exists in France. Metropolitan Frenchmen who want to go live and work in New Caledonia need to obtain a special permit, almost like a work visa, despite the fact it's the same country, same citizenship, same courts. They call that a "citoyenneté calédonienne" (as opposed to "nationalité française").

So, using this example, there would be the "nationalité canadienne" (Canadian citizenship), but Canadian citizenship wouldn't be enough to settle and work in Québec, you'd also need to have the "citoyenneté québécoise" (Québec special citizenship) to live and work in Québec. This "citoyenneté" would be reserved to natives of Québec, and natives from other provinces would need to obtain a certain permit to settle and work in Québec. That's exactly the situation that exists today in New Caledonia (the Kanak independence parties requested it in 1998, it was one of their major demands).

Anglo-Canada would NEVER go for that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

What does Occam's Razor tells us about Canada's goals in regards to immigration? That it is still a plot to dilute Francophone influence in Canada? Or that it's cheap economic crack cocaine for a country that has relatively poor labour productivity compared to its peers and faces undeniable future demographic problems?

Definitely more option 2.

Though most people don't give a shit if option 1 happens too. I suppose it's almost seen as a side benefit by many.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't think it's much of a secret that immigration has once again become an increasing factor in the decline of the francophone share of the population in Canada, Quebec, Montreal, etc. (and increases in the anglophone share), part of which related to federal decision-making (ie rejecting francophone applications while approving anglophone ones in much greater proportions) or simply due to it trending more or less naturally to favour Canadian and North American demographics.

It is the primary role of the federal government pour empêcher les pièces disparates de se séparer, n'est-ce pas?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Maybe the Québec government would then request a special permit for other Canadians to be able to reside and work in Québec.

Mobility rights are enshrined in the Charter under Section 6.

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

You probably think "crazy", and yet it already exists in France. Metropolitan Frenchmen who want to go live and work in New Caledonia need to obtain a special permit, almost like a work visa, despite the fact it's the same country, same citizenship, same courts. They call that a "citoyenneté calédonienne" (as opposed to "nationalité française").

So, using this example, there would be the "nationalité canadienne" (Canadian citizenship), but Canadian citizenship wouldn't be enough to settle and work in Québec, you'd also need to have the "citoyenneté québécoise" (Québec special citizenship) to live and work in Québec. This "citoyenneté" would be reserved to natives of Québec, and natives from other provinces would need to obtain a certain permit to settle and work in Québec. That's exactly the situation that exists today in New Caledonia (the Kanak independence parties requested it in 1998, it was one of their major demands).

What are you on about?

New Caledonia is an overseas territory and is in no way comparable, given that Canada does not have overseas territories in the Pacific. The rest of this is ridiculous fantasy.

Originally Posted by suburbanite

What does Occam's Razor tells us about Canada's goals in regards to immigration? That it is still a plot to dilute Francophone influence in Canada? Or that it's cheap economic crack cocaine for a country that has relatively poor labour productivity compared to its peers and faces undeniable future demographic problems?

It's common knowledge that Anglophones wake up each morning thinking of new ways to disadvantage Francophones and specifically Quebecers. It's a big conspiracy and everything. This chapter highlights how immigration has been a ploy to weaken Quebec all along.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though most people don't give a shit if option 1 happens too. I suppose it's almost seen as a side benefit by many.

Who are these people you keep conjuring up? Anglophone bogeymen?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Legault also apologized this evening for equating immigrants with violence, below.

Kate McKenna
@katemckenna8

CAQ leader @francoislegault was asked about what he considered to be the challenges in integrating immigrants into Quebec.

He said Quebecers have specific "values" and that they are peaceful and don't like "extremists or violence".

--

The below ad from the Parti Quebecois equates the spread of English to that of a disease, and includes borders which eliminate the existence of Labrador, which the PQ have never acknowledged.

• Video Link

Fun campaign, I guess.

For Legault to suggest that Quebeckers might respond to immigration with violence seems like a gross insult. I'm guessing, however, that he will be given a pass.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by thurmas

If the past 50 years was humble and compliant Quebec imagine the Cockey take it or leave Quebec attitude ha ha.

They've been quite humble and compliant for the past 20 years, haven't they? I remember The Economist (of London, England!) writing triumphantly in the late 2000s about how the PQ was now a thing of the past, and Québec's separatism basically dead and buried for good (one has to wonder why in the 21st century the English people of Europe, thousands of miles away, still care so much about seeing Québec remaining part of Canada...).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Who are these people you keep conjuring up? Anglophone bogeymen?

I guess all of the millions of Anglo-Canadians who have a sincere concern about the future of French in this country have been in hiding during my 50 years on this earth.

Not to say a few of them don't exist, but geez there aren't that many I tell ya...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I guess all of the millions of Anglo-Canadians who have a sincere concern about the future of French in this country have been in hiding during my 50 years on this earth.

Not to say a few of them don't exist, but geez there aren't that many I tell ya...

There aren't.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

It is the primary role of the federal government pour empêcher les pièces disparates de se séparer, n'est-ce pas?

Bien sûr, but the question is how do they go about it: by trying to swamp us demographically or by trying to keep us happy by letting us do our own thing?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

For Legault to suggest that Quebeckers might respond to immigration with violence seems like a gross insult. I'm guessing, however, that he will be given a pass.

The implication from Legault was that immigrants are more violent and bring extremist views (and violence) with them.

Originally Posted by New Brisavone

They've been quite humble and compliant for the past 20 years, haven't they? I remember The Economist (of London, England!) writing triumphantly in the late 2000s about how the PQ was now a thing of the past, and Québec's separatism basically dead and buried for good (one has to wonder why in the 21st century the English people of Europe, thousands of miles away, still care so much about seeing Québec remaining part of Canada...).

Because they were/are trying to quell similar separatist fervor in Scotland. Encouraging one is to encourage another.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I guess all of the millions of Anglo-Canadians who have a sincere concern about the future of French in this country have been in hiding during my 50 years on this earth.

Not to say a few of them don't exist, but geez there aren't that many I tell ya...

Not sure why you expect everyone to be thinking about language at all times.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Swamped by Anglophone migration from other Canadian provinces?

Maybe the Québec government would then request a special permit for other Canadians to be able to reside and work in Québec. You probably think "crazy", and yet it already exists in France. Metropolitan Frenchmen who want to go live and work in New Caledonia need to obtain a special permit, almost like a work visa, despite the fact it's the same country, same citizenship, same courts. They call that a "citoyenneté calédonienne" (as opposed to "nationalité française").

So, using this example, there would be the "nationalité canadienne" (Canadian citizenship), but Canadian citizenship wouldn't be enough to settle and work in Québec, you'd also need to have the "citoyenneté québécoise" (Québec special citizenship) to live and work in Québec. This "citoyenneté" would be reserved to natives of Québec, and natives from other provinces would need to obtain a certain permit to settle and work in Québec. That's exactly the situation that exists today in New Caledonia (the Kanak independence parties requested it in 1998, it was one of their major demands).

That wouldn't go over very well in the region I live in and the neighbouring region in Quebec. But there are way more Quebecers working in Ontario than Ontarians working in Quebec. If Ontarians got upset and didn't allow our raw natural resources to go to Quebec for processing then it would severely hurt Quebec's economy.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

There aren't.

Better tell JHikka, then. He seems to think we have millions of allies out there in Anglo-Canada.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I guess all of the millions of Anglo-Canadians who have a sincere concern about the future of French in this country have been in hiding during my 50 years on this earth.

Not to say a few of them don't exist, but geez there aren't that many I tell ya...

I know plenty of anglophones who sympathize with and support the existence of a healthy French language and culture in Canada, it is usually something completely understandable to educated people. However, the constant alienation of English can only further an independence movement, something that most of us do not want. So, are you a separatist?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Not sure why you expect everyone to be thinking about language at all times.

I don't necessarily think they should.

I just don't agree with insinuations that the vast majority aren't either unsympathetic or indifferent.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

For Legault to suggest that Quebeckers might respond to immigration with violence seems like a gross insult. I'm guessing, however, that he will be given a pass.

Being dense on purpose, I see. The point is, of course, that we are no fans of the "Allahu Akbar! [Ka-Boom]" type of immigrant. Understandably, I'll add.

(They do speak French, however. )

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

The Liberals' meager chunk of the vote (at the lowest levels since that party's history began in 1867) is, at least, quite reliable, unlike the PCQ which has a strong "flavor of the week" feel and the spell could be broken by any number of things between now and e-day - which is not the case with the Libs.

French media (from France) have now started talking about the PCQ and its new leader, I saw it last week. That's when I started to think uh-oh, something is happening here... Until recently I thought the Québec Conservatives would just flame out like the Scottish Conservatives, but now even the French media seem to think it's serious. So who knows... Certainly they won't win the election, but #2 party? Who knows.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Better tell JHikka, then. He seems to think we have millions of allies out there in Anglo-Canada.

In the sense of general tolerance, perhaps, although it hardly seems like something most would fall on their swords to defend.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Unless Canadians start having more babies i don't see another option to solve the staffing shortages in all of Canadian life other than mass immigration

Canada has more or less the fertility rate of Finland, and Finland has considerably less immigration than Canada (to a magnitude of 1 to 6, or even 1 to 8). Yet Finland is not collapsing, and is not forecasted to collapse. Canada could survive with lower immigration, that's completely certain.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Better tell JHikka, then. He seems to think we have millions of allies out there in Anglo-Canada.

You're actually incredible.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I just don't agree with insinuations that the vast majority aren't either unsympathetic or indifferent.

This is you making an assumption off of nothing more than how you feel. There's no way to gauge how many Canadians are unsympathetic or indifferent to the French language in Quebec beyond simple conjecture and guesswork. It's common for you to hold this belief that people in the rest of Canada are against you in some way because it helps your narrative.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In the sense of general tolerance, perhaps, although it hardly seems like something most would fall on their swords to defend.

I think the most salient aspect of this is whether decisions made collectively and affecting all of Canada, as a result of this growing indifferent (at best) mindset, will in the future take into account at least somewhat the fact that historically the country has had a distinct francophone nation within it.