Saskatoon Construction III

[Roquentin]

Ouch. I could have done without seeing that rendering today. I guess we'll see how much muscle the city's architectural guidelines have behind them.

25th street is already a bit rough at street level, being such a busy road through the core. Something, anything to make things a bit less bleak for pedestrians would be very welcome. (More street-sweeping please! Using this lot as a dump for their other project hasn't helped what a dustbowl the core becomes this time of year.) I'd love to see more detailed plans of this project, especially with respect to the first few floors.

I'm from Edmonton originally and have followed that city's developments closely for a long time. There's been a steady progression there over the past couple decades away from cheap, cynical architecture like this, and it's been a while since anything this brutal was built there. Recognizing the differences between Edmonton and Saskatoon, it would be nice to see that kind of consistent progress here. There are definitely signs that things are moving in the right direction (River Landing, wow!), and one bad apple like this doesn't spoil the cart, but I wonder if it does point to cracks and gaps in the city's oversight on new developments. Maybe a smaller city just doesn't have the resources to put into that kind of governance? Maybe the limited scale of local developments means that mediocrity is more realistic or conspicuous? Maybe Saskatoon is yet to hit a kind of watershed moment in its urbanity --- a critical mass of local interest in and support for the city's urban growth? This is not something that happens without the support of our municipal government --- so I guess we'll see how well the architectural guidelines are maintained here. Maybe that can serve as a kind of litmus test for these questions and issues?

[GTR200]

Originally Posted by alt_center

As a reminder, I believe this is the last rendering we saw for this lot... I have previously posted my opinion of the architectural merits of these buildings and will not repeat them here.

I know I’m just dreaming, but would be sweet if they could build one 45 story tower instead of 2 buildings. Some larger windows would also be a plus, and maybe some glass.

[King Ralph]

I didn't think Baydo could build anything uglier than its Broadway project. This definitely tops it.

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by GTR200

I know I’m just dreaming, but would be sweet if they could build one 45 story tower instead of 2 buildings. Some larger windows would also be a plus, and maybe some glass.

That's a nice thought. A single taller, well-designed building would really stand out there. They'd have amazing views, too!

[NotToScale]

Originally Posted by Roquentin

That's a nice thought. A single taller, well-designed building would really stand out there. They'd have amazing views, too!

Maybe I'm just in the minority, but I would rather see a denser low-skyline downtown than a couple tall towers spotted here and there

[Echoes]

A nicely scaled medical office building going up on the Silverwood house site on Queen Street. I like the brickwork.

[Echoes]

Saskatoon Public Schools to build new west-side school to replace 3 others

CBC News · Posted: Apr 30, 2020 11:45 AM CT | Last Updated: 3 hours ago

A new school built to house 400 to 500 students is coming to Saskatoon's core neighbourhoods.

The public school board plans on closing down three aging elementary schools — Princess Alexandra, King George and Pleasant Hill — and build one larger school in the area in the next two to three years.

"I think it's a great idea," said Saskatoon Tribal Council Chief Mark Arcand.

"It's a great time to take on this challenge."

The decision to build the City Centre Project was originally announced in the provincial government's spending report in March, as one of several other school-building projects across Saskatchewan.

Saskatoon Public School Board chair Colleen MacPherson said the existing schools in the area are some of the oldest in the city, with two of them already 100 years old.

"A 106-year-old building has its drawbacks," said MacPherson.

"We just feel that that those students deserve a modern school that will serve their needs and beyond."

The call for a new school has been a long time coming. MacPherson said the school board had been asking for a replacement for the Pleasant Hill School since 1996.

The new school could cost anywhere from $22.5 million to $25 million to build. The public school board estimates renovating the three existing schools would cost $68 million.

The new school is expected to be built on the site of the current Princess Alexandra School.

[....]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...side-1.5550853

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by NotToScale

Maybe I'm just in the minority, but I would rather see a denser low-skyline downtown than a couple tall towers spotted here and there

For the most part I totally agree, 100%! When I moved here, there seemed to be a wave of low-rise office buildings going up around downtown, and I thought that was great --- better than one big office building, say.

But in this case, I wonder if this area might already have that kind of solid, sustained density. I would hazard a guess that the immediate vicinity of this lot might have the highest residential density in the city? In any case, it's the only big parking lot left on 25th between the river and 2nd Ave. It might not be such a bad spot for something that stands out a little (in a good way!).

Of course, this is all very pie in the sky!

And hey, that medical building is nice! I quite like Queen Street. It seems like a good edge to the rest of City Park to the north, and I'm a fan of recent developments along there. For all the local development matters that are questionable, there are plenty of things to be happy about, too. Thanks for the photos, Echoes!

[NotToScale]

Originally Posted by Roquentin

For the most part I totally agree, 100%! When I moved here, there seemed to be a wave of low-rise office buildings going up around downtown, and I thought that was great --- better than one big office building, say.

But in this case, I wonder if this area might already have that kind of solid, sustained density. I would hazard a guess that the immediate vicinity of this lot might have the highest residential density in the city? In any case, it's the only big parking lot left on 25th between the river and 2nd Ave. It might not be such a bad spot for something that stands out a little (in a good way!).

!

I should clarify, when I say low skyline I mean in the range of 8-16 storeys, not low-rise 4 storey buildings haha

[GTR200]

Originally Posted by NotToScale

Maybe I'm just in the minority, but I would rather see a denser low-skyline downtown than a couple tall towers spotted here and there

You are correct, but all I’m saying is that it would be great to have one tall building in the city. Just one.

[Ricopedra]

edit

[prairieguy]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Saskatoon Public Schools to build new west-side school to replace 3 others

CBC News · Posted: Apr 30, 2020 11:45 AM CT | Last Updated: 3 hours ago



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...side-1.5550853

I know there would be all kinds of challenges to this, but I really hope that at least one of the historical schools can be repurposed....maybe a community centre like Albert Community Centre on Cumberland (which also has its own challenges)

I would just hate for us to completely loose these examples of school architecture from 100 years ago. There IS value in saving some of these old buildings, regardless of the cost.

[mitchellk12]

Originally Posted by NotToScale

Maybe I'm just in the minority, but I would rather see a denser low-skyline downtown than a couple tall towers spotted here and there

I think anything 40 storeys + is too much and will stick out too much, but a few towers hitting the 30ish mark wouldnt hurt as long as its the core.

[SaskScraper]

I'm not sure what it is about Saskatoonians that frightens them about buildings in the >40 storey range, Kelowna is building them in a city centre with less than half as many high or midrises as Saskatoon.
After seeing the Holiday Inn on Pacific and College Quarter Hotel just off College Ave approved & built and the fact that Saskatonians look at the Baydo projects & can only think to say they'd rather have it shorter & squatter instead of being more curious about the poor quality esthetic makes me wonder about the city's citizens sensibilities all together. Baydo's projects remind me of what highrise prisons look like.



I can't imagine people paying to rent rooms in 'The Projects' Baydo has come up with.

FYI, everybody mentions how they'd like to see a grocery store downtown. How many 8 to 16 storey residential buildings would it take to get built downtown to have enough critical mass to warranty the business of the food store as compared to building a few +40 storey towers.
You could build 4 times less 40 storey residential towers than 10-12 storey towers to get to the same density downtown.
think about it & do the math yourself.

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

FYI, everybody mentions how they'd like to see a grocery store downtown. How many 8 to 16 storey residential buildings would it take to get built downtown to have enough critical mass to warranty the business of the food store as compared to building a few +40 storey towers.
You could build 4 times less 40 storey residential towers than 10-12 storey towers to get to the same density downtown.
think about it & do the math yourself.

The height of a building isn't the best metric to use, really, as opposed to looking at the number of residential units in a development. These buildings will have 364 rental units. That's not unreasonable at all for one building, hypothetically, although if this project were developed as a single building it would have the most residential units of any building in the city. As a point of comparison, here's a project in Edmonton that is at about the same stage of development, with ours being a little further along:
https://www.maclabdevelopment.com/ou...ts-3/parks-10/
The Edmonton project has been approved for 940~ units, I believe, so if our project here were built as one tower, it might conceivably have the same kind of scale as one of the towers in this development. Sorry for the long-winded tangent, but units are a more accurate indicator of density than building height.

Anyway, the subject of retail is really interesting and one of the reasons it would be nice to know more about the developer's plans. I think any retail here will do well, but I'd like to see something like a large Shoppers Drug Mart with a decent grocery section.

[roryn1]

does anyone have an example of actually needing a grocery store downtown? I personally like to grab my groceries from a large store which is just about nonexistent in all parts of the work in their downtowns. i enjoy grabbing everything i need for atleast ten days which requires a cart and is unfeasible to walk home with. when i need “essentials”, there are plenty of stores that have all of the necessities downtown (shoppers, pharmasave, 5th ave confectionary, 6th ave confectionary, and more). I lived downtown winnipeg and i remember seeing someone using a miniature cart to bring food home from their fairly decent sized giant tiger downtown to our portage ave condo building. I also remember the increased security needed for theft at that giant tiger (and per capita our city is doing a lot worse for crime in the past 5 years), so i instead went to a safeway a few blocks away that i needed to drive or take a cab or bus to. with grocery stores in Preston Crossing and 33rd, we already have large grocery stories.
We won’t be seeing a grocery store in our lifetime in the downtown asince cities the size of current day Winnipeg don’t require them. i saw an underground walmart in China once, but it was surrounded by the required population a walmart sized store require which we aren’t going to see for another couple hundred years in saskatoon. that’s ok. preston crossing has our downtown grocery stores - sobeys and walmart could be in the city yards but the city planners here suck and let the university run our downtown proximity retail.

[FarmerHaight]

Having a good selection of produce at a downtown grocer would be nice. To me produce is as much an essential as milk or eggs.

[roryn1]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Having a good selection of produce at a downtown grocer would be nice. To me produce is as much an essential as milk or eggs.

I really don't see this in the near term. Does anyone have any examples of cities with ~500,000 that have a full on downtown grocer?

Speaking of produce - has anyone heard a hint of anything on what's replacing the farmers market downtown? I know it's a weird year for everything this upcoming summer with corona, but I can't imagine the city letting the original association go THAT EASY without any plans for another style farmers market downtown. The owner of The Banks must be livid if nothing is actually coming to replace the mediocre one. That would absolutely blow my mind and cause me to lose faith in the entire city council. I am very surprised no announcement on that has been made yet - even if it's postponed for this summer. Anyone have any thoughts?

[phone]

Originally Posted by roryn1

I really don't see this in the near term. Does anyone have any examples of cities with ~500,000 that have a full on downtown grocer?

Off the top of my head I know Kingston Ont has at least 3 full service grocers downtown, with half the population of Saskatoon. Peterborough is even smaller and has at least one. Which makes me think that they're not at all uncommon. Having a full service grocery store downtown is a perfectly attainable goal.

[YXE]

Originally Posted by Roquentin

The height of a building isn't the best metric to use, really, as opposed to looking at the number of residential units in a development. These buildings will have 364 rental units. That's not unreasonable at all for one building, hypothetically, although if this project were developed as a single building it would have the most residential units of any building in the city. As a point of comparison, here's a project in Edmonton that is at about the same stage of development, with ours being a little further along:
https://www.maclabdevelopment.com/ou...ts-3/parks-10/
The Edmonton project has been approved for 940~ units, I believe, so if our project here were built as one tower, it might conceivably have the same kind of scale as one of the towers in this development. Sorry for the long-winded tangent, but units are a more accurate indicator of density than building height.

Anyway, the subject of retail is really interesting and one of the reasons it would be nice to know more about the developer's plans. I think any retail here will do well, but I'd like to see something like a large Shoppers Drug Mart with a decent grocery section.

This type of development at this level of apparent quality is my dream for the next parcels of River Landing. Put two towers like this up next to Parcel Y and all of a sudden we are building a beautiful Saskatoon skyline right along the river. Unfortunately, without a strong economic recovery, I doubt we'll see a project like this in Saskatoon within the next decade. More modest scale projects, such as the proposed College av condo, are likely what we will see in the city - assuming North Prairie actually goes ahead with that project!

In terms of how we get to that necessary economic boom, well, that remains to be seen. The days of high resource prices seem to be behind us and any future of Saskatoon being a mid-size city tech hub are years and years away. The good news for SK is that we aren't limited to oil...