[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[q12]

Jordi Morgan just reported on NEWS 95.7's Maritime Morning that Peter Mackay will be in town next week (Monday possibly) to make an announcement. He said it is likely about the convention centre.

[Jstaleness]

I sure hope so. If this is for real and the announcement is made, is there anything else in the way before site prep begins?

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

I sure hope so. If this is for real and the announcement is made, is there anything else in the way before site prep begins?

Wouldn't this still have to go through a site plan approval at least? Or a DA or a development permit?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Wouldn't this still have to go through a site plan approval at least? Or a DA or a development permit?

I think it would have to be radically different than what has already been described and approved by the HRM_by_Design. It gives a site layout and description in the HRM_by_Design manual. It is described on page 27/141 of this HRM_by_Design manual http://halifax.ca/capitaldistrict/documents/DHLUBandDesignManual.pdf .

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think it would have to be radically different than what has already been described and approved by the HRM_by_Design. It gives a site layout and description in the HRM_by_Design manual. It is described on page 27/141 of this HRM_by_Design manual http://halifax.ca/capitaldistrict/documents/DHLUBandDesignManual.pdf .

I seems to me Fenwick; that you and I had this debate before. I'm getting the funny feeling of deja vu.

I went through the downtown LUB and normally if a use is not requiring a permit, there is a section that talks about exempting certain uses and under what circumstances. Calgary's LUB has 3 pages (it's quite extensive). I didn't see the convention centre listed either in the peninsula lub or the downtown one, so it still needs at least a development permit and more than likely a building permit.

If I look at (15B); it sounds like any development permit needs to be referred to the design review committee, but only for the qualitative elements "as set out in Section 1.1 b of the Design Manual" (quote from the text).

Section 1.1 b of the design manual is:
b. The qualitative elements of an application (architectural design, streetscape presence, public realm contribution, sustainability, etc.) are
subject to a discretionary approval resulting from a design review process. It is this discretionary process for which the Design Manual is intended.
Additionally, the Design Manual contains criteria by which modest modifications to the quantitative elements of the Land Use By-law may be made through the design review process.

So it wouldn't be the site plan I guess. It would just be the design, etc. The more subjective stuff, versus height, etc.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I seems to me Fenwick; that you and I had this debate before. I'm getting the funny feeling of deja vu.

I went through the downtown LUB and normally if a use is not requiring a permit, there is a section that talks about exempting certain uses and under what circumstances. Calgary's LUB has 3 pages (it's quite extensive). I didn't see the convention centre listed either in the peninsula lub or the downtown one, so it still needs at least a development permit and more than likely a building permit.

If I look at (15B); it sounds like any development permit needs to be referred to the design review committee, but only for the qualitative elements "as set out in Section 1.1 b of the Design Manual" (quote from the text).

Section 1.1 b of the design manual is:
b. The qualitative elements of an application (architectural design, streetscape presence, public realm contribution, sustainability, etc.) are
subject to a discretionary approval resulting from a design review process. It is this discretionary process for which the Design Manual is intended.
Additionally, the Design Manual contains criteria by which modest modifications to the quantitative elements of the Land Use By-law may be made through the design review process.

So it wouldn't be the site plan I guess. It would just be the design, etc. The more subjective stuff, versus height, etc.

Yes, we had this discussion before - I didn't intend for it to be a debate but just an answer to your previously stated question "Wouldn't this still have to go through a site plan approval at least? Or a DA or a development permit?" - I feel that the LUB clearly states that it doesn't need a DA (development agreement). I think that you stated this in your post, so I don't think that we disagree.


All the public debates have been held on this project when funding was approved. Construction of the convention centre project is permitted in the Land Use By-laws. It even states in 15(B) that it is the qualitative elements (such as exterior materials) that must be followed, so I think it is fair to state that it is not the quantitative elements (maximum height, setbacks, stepbacks, lot coverage, etc.) that must be followed. Qualitative and quantitative elements are defined in section 1.1 of of the Design Manual http://halifax.ca/capitaldistrict/documents/DHLUBandDesignManual.pdf .

Based on what you stated in your post, I think that we agree? Essentially, the downtown LUB specifically provides a development agreement for the convention centre project.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Yes, we had this discussion before - I didn't intend for it to be a debate but just an answer to your previously stated question "Wouldn't this still have to go through a site plan approval at least? Or a DA or a development permit?" - I feel that the LUB clearly states that it doesn't need a DA (development agreement). I think that you stated this in your post, so I don't think that we disagree.


All the public debates have been held on this project when funding was approved. Construction of the convention centre project is permitted in the Land Use By-laws. It even states in 15(B) that it is the qualitative elements (such as exterior materials) that must be followed, so I think it is fair to state that it is not the quantitative elements (maximum height, setbacks, stepbacks, lot coverage, etc.) that must be followed. Qualitative and quantitative elements are defined in section 1.1 of of the Design Manual http://halifax.ca/capitaldistrict/documents/DHLUBandDesignManual.pdf .

Based on what you stated in your post, I think that we agree? Essentially, the downtown LUB specifically provides a development agreement for the convention centre project.

I guess we'll have to see if we are right - but essentially it looks like just a development permit (with a referal to the urban design committee) on design, materials, etc. I guess a site plan approval would include all those...but it could just be a regular development permit.

[q12]

http://www.news957.com/news/local/articl...ying-ahead-of-defence-minister-s-address

Convention centre rumours flying ahead of defence minister's address
Amy Arts
Aug 11, 2011 05:47:12 AM

Defence Minister Peter MacKay is coming to Halifax on Monday - and he won't be talking about the military.

MacKay is scheduled to address the Chamber of Commerce at a breakfast event during which he'll discuss "federal investments and infrastructure in nova scotia's economy," a topic that has speculation flying about a possible announcement regarding the proposed convention centre.

MacKay told reporters earlier this week that the federal government was ready to go on making its position known on whether it planned to help fund the $159 million project, but he did not elaborate.

Premier Darrell Dexter said he doesn't know which way the federal government is leaning, and if he did, he couldn't make an announcement on its behalf.

"Peter MacKay will be in town on Monday and from the conversations that I've had with him, what I can say is, I believe that we should be very optimistic about the result," Dexter told News 95.7.

Dexter said he's anticipating a two-part announcement, with the first part being confirmation of funding and the second part being the amount of the contribution.

"This is an important project for the city and also for the province, and I would argue even for the region," he said. "It will mean 1700 person-years of work just on the project itself."

The province and Halifax Regional Municipality have each pledged one-third of the $159 million cost and have asked the federal government for the remaining $47 million.

However, several deadlines have lapsed while awaiting a response and the developer Rank Inc. has reportedly been re-costing the project.

Also read the heralds article to hear pacey crying...http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1257680.html

[WestEndHali]

I'll be at the meeting Monday. Is anyone else coming?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I guess we'll have to see if we are right - but essentially it looks like just a development permit (with a referal to the urban design committee) on design, materials, etc. I guess a site plan approval would include all those...but it could just be a regular development permit.

I am not sure about the approval process but I seem to recall the developer pointing out a while ago that excavation would begin promptly because there's so much of it to do. That at least would be interesting to watch, even if construction isn't permitted for a few months. A busy excavation site with signs up announcing a new development looks about a million times better than an abandoned hole.

There are a few sites that are particularly bad downtown:
-Roy Building
-NFB
-Waterside
-Nova Centre
-United Gulf

If they became new buildings they'd only amount to moderate growth of the downtown as a whole but the "optics" of the area would be dramatically improved.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

I am not sure about the approval process but I seem to recall the developer pointing out a while ago that excavation would begin promptly because there's so much of it to do. That at least would be interesting to watch, even if construction isn't permitted for a few months. A busy excavation site with signs up announcing a new development looks about a million times better than an abandoned hole.

There are a few sites that are particularly bad downtown:
-Roy Building
-NFB
-Waterside
-Nova Centre
-United Gulf

If they became new buildings they'd only amount to moderate growth of the downtown as a whole but the "optics" of the area would be dramatically improved.

Typically demolition and site excavation can be covered under two different types of permits through the building code; thus aren't planning approvals.

So you could strip and grade a property, demo a building and possibly excavate the hole for parking. But once you got into the construction of the physical parking structure, that moves into the planning realm requiring a development permit.

So a lot of the important site prep work could go ahead, but the actual construction would have to wait until the building and development approvals were granted.

[Keith P.]

CTV News reporting the federal participation is confirmed and the deal is done. It's a go!

[DigitalNinja]

Link is here
http://atlantic.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/...centre_110812/20110812/?hub=AtlanticHome

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

Link is here
http://atlantic.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/...centre_110812/20110812/?hub=AtlanticHome

Thanks for the link.

It is good to hear that construction could begin this fall.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for the link.

It is good to hear that construction could begin this fall.

Well its good to hear there is finally a decision, but something smells with what CTV is reporting.

What was with earlier this week comment for the delay being sent towards the developer?

In the end i am glad there is finally a decision, regardless if i believe in it or not.

[halifaxboyns]

Well maybe the developer is out town - he could be on vacation? Some people do take them...

It's like someone said in one of the threads - media only does well when they pain the situation as the sky is falling. So that's what gets them viewers...that's what they did.

I'm glad to hear this is going forward and that the federal contribution has been increased to take into account the additional costs. That's good.

The sinister side of me is waiting to see the news that several members of STV were in the hospital due to heart problems associated with the announcement and a couple obits because they couldn't take it

[JustinMacD]

I imagine the Save the View crowd is losing their shit right now.

[-Harlington-]

I could be wrong but from what i heard on CTV was that theres about 70 million in funding to be announced

Its supposed to be the Nova Centre for sure but what else is being funded ?

Theres speculation that it could be stadium or ship building, or maybe im just hoping, lol

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

CTV News reporting the federal participation is confirmed and the deal is done. It's a go!

I'm glad to hear this is finally going to move forward. This is a project that I think the whole Maritime region should be able to get behind. The type of conventions that the Nova Centre would attract would not consider Fredericton, Charlottetown, Moncton or Saint John in the first place, therefore Halifax is not really competing with the other Mariitime cities for this business. Instead, this should be viewed as a project that will introduce a whole new segment of people to what the Maritime region has to offer.

In this particular instance, what's good for Halifax is good for the Maritimes.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by -Harlington-

I could be wrong but from what i heard on CTV was that theres about 70 million in funding to be announced

Its supposed to be the Nova Centre for sure but what else is being funded ?

Theres speculation that it could be stadium or ship building, or maybe im just hoping, lol

It would be great to see a $20 million federal funding commitment to a stadium and maybe free land and demolition at Shannon Park? It would certainly take the sting out of Premier Dexter's announcement of no funding commitment to a stadium and it would be smart from a Conservative perspective to support a popular stadium project when the provincial NDP'ers are rejecting it (Mayor Kelly has Conservative connections so maybe .... ). Since we only have less than 3 days to speculate - I wonder how Premier Dexter would react to such an announcement of stadium funding?