Ottawa intercity bus terminal relocation

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am not really sure why Ikea would be particularly worse for people with accessibility issues.

You're not sure why a bus stop that requires a long walk from transit across an overpass and through a massive parking lot without any seating or other facilities is worse for people with accessibility issues?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Wonder what will it take to have VIA build a simple bus terminal on one of their Tremblay parking lots.

Money.

They would likely need to build a parking garage to make up for the lost parking, they would need to evict the tenants that are leasing space in the station to make room for ticket counters, waiting rooms, etc. and they would then need to renovate the space to make it appropriate for the task.

These discount bus companies obviously don't want to spend money for a quality bus station, so the money to pay for the infrastructure and replace the lost rental income would need to come from somewhere else. Subsidising this isn't part of VIA's mandate.

[DTcrawler]

To reiterate what I said on my last post, I don't know if building a new bus terminal solves anything. Like I said, Flixbus uses a gas station parking lot in Kanata instead of one of the stops at Terry Fox station. For their "central" stop, they use the most remote part of the Ikea parking lot instead of the actual bus loop closer to the bus stops on Iris St (adjacent to Home Societe).

So better options already exist, even in the absence of a purpose-built, intercity bus terminal, and the companies are not using them. As someone else said, that likely has something to do with minimizing costs as much as possible while also not sharing facilities with other operators (Rider Express already uses the bus loop near Iris that I mentioned, for example).

And again, going back to Toronto, most of these companies don't use the Union Bus Terminal, which would be the gold standard in terms of local connectivity options.

I think this problem is beyond the scope of City Hall.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

You're not sure why a bus stop that requires a long walk from transit across an overpass and through a massive parking lot without any seating or other facilities is worse for people with accessibility issues?

As far as I know, no accessibility legislation specifies that certain amenities must be within a certain distance of a mass transit stop. If that was a requirement, most facilities and services in the city could not exist. The old bus station was nowhere near mass transit.

But certainly the Rider Express stop, which is beside the OCTranspo stop for the shopping centre, is more convenient for those with mobility issues.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by acottawa

As far as I know, no accessibility legislation specifies that certain amenities must be within a certain distance of a mass transit stop. If that was a requirement, most facilities and services in the city could not exist. The old bus station was nowhere near mass transit.

But certainly the Rider Express stop, which is beside the OCTranspo stop for the shopping centre, is more convenient for those with mobility issues.

Your original comment didn't say anything about what's required by law. Many facilities can be accessible by the letter of the law while still being inaccessible from a practical perspective. Like signs directing wheelchair users to go around to the back of a building to find an elevator or wheelchair ramp.

In this case, I could see why anyone with a cane or walker, let alone a wheelchair, would be pissed about having to trek across an uneven, semi-plowed parking lot to reach a "bus stop" with nowhere to sit down once they've reached it and are waiting for the bus.

Even for an able-bodied person, the location is trash. As is evident when you are driving by on the 417 and see a group of people with suitcases standing in a barren asphalt tundra with nothing around them but cart corrals and lamp posts.

And the old coach terminal was a block over from route 6.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Your original comment didn't say anything about what's required by law. Many facilities can be accessible by the letter of the law while still being inaccessible from a practical perspective. Like signs directing wheelchair users to go around to the back of a building to find an elevator or wheelchair ramp.

In this case, I could see why anyone with a cane or walker, let alone a wheelchair, would be pissed about having to trek across an uneven, semi-plowed parking lot to reach a "bus stop" with nowhere to sit down once they've reached it and are waiting for the bus.

Even for an able-bodied person, the location is trash. As is evident when you are driving by on the 417 and see a group of people with suitcases standing in a barren asphalt tundra with nothing around them but cart corrals and lamp posts.

And the old coach terminal was a block over from route 6.

The original comment didn't specify the accessibility concern (distance from the LRT). If the only focus is transit access for people with mobility issues then that is an issue. However, if the person is arriving by uber, taxi, paratranspo or getting dropped off there is easier than many other locations throughout the city.

Flixbus prioritizes shortening travel times and lowering costs (this is the no wifi, no amenities service). There are a number of bus services available that have a better level of service or better locations for stops for transit users.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The original comment didn't specify the accessibility concern (distance from the LRT). If the only focus is transit access for people with mobility issues then that is an issue. However, if the person is arriving by uber, taxi, paratranspo or getting dropped off there is easier than many other locations throughout the city.

Flixbus prioritizes shortening travel times and lowering costs (this is the no wifi, no amenities service). There are a number of bus services available that have a better level of service or better locations for stops for transit users.

Distance from the LRT is only part of the concern, but a big one when you are talking about accessibility. The IKEA parking lot does not have a single accessibility feature, so pretty hard to argue that. Also not sure how it is “easier” to be dropped off there by taxi or uber than at a transit station. I guess if 50 Ubers are arriving at the same time that might be the case.

Even the low cost argument is an illusion if you have to add in the cost of an uber from the central or eastern parts of the city. They aren’t actually lowering costs - they are just transferring more of the cost to passengers.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

Distance from the LRT is only part of the concern, but a big one when you are talking about accessibility. The IKEA parking lot does not have a single accessibility feature, so pretty hard to argue that. Also not sure how it is “easier” to be dropped off there by taxi or uber than at a transit station. I guess if 50 Ubers are arriving at the same time that might be the case.

Even the low cost argument is an illusion if you have to add in the cost of an uber from the central or eastern parts of the city. They aren’t actually lowering costs - they are just transferring more of the cost to passengers.

A huge number of bus passengers are dropped off and picked up (remember the crowds of cars at Catherine street picking up and dropping off). This location is relatively convenient for that, including for those with accessibility issues who have only to walk a few metres if they are getting dropped off.

For people who don't like this, Red Arrow departs from the train station, which has good transit connections. Megabus departs from St Laurent, which has good bus connections and LRT connections for people in the central and eastern parts of the city. Rider Express has a stop at St Laurent as well as the other side of the Ikea Mall (right beside the OCTranspo stop).

Flixbus is the Ryan Air of bus companies and has super barebones service.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

A huge number of bus passengers are dropped off and picked up (remember the crowds of cars at Catherine street picking up and dropping off). This location is relatively convenient for that, including for those with accessibility issues who have only to walk a few metres if they are getting dropped off.

For people who don't like this, Red Arrow departs from the train station, which has good transit connections. Megabus departs from St Laurent, which has good bus connections and LRT connections for people in the central and eastern parts of the city. Rider Express has a stop at St Laurent as well as the other side of the Ikea Mall (right beside the OCTranspo stop).

Flixbus is the Ryan Air of bus companies and has super barebones service.

Fair enough, and the Ikea parking lot is the Stansted of Ottawa busing.

There is actually a better selection of trips than when I looked a few months back. It's just unfortunate that each operator has a few trips and they are scattered around the city, which kills connectivity. I still wonder if that parking lot beside Lees station isn't the best option for a real hub (assuming Via won't give up the space and no major investments are forthcoming.)

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

There is actually a better selection of trips than when I looked a few months back. It's just unfortunate that each operator has a few trips and they are scattered around the city, which kills connectivity. I still wonder if that parking lot beside Lees station isn't the best option for a real hub (assuming Via won't give up the space and no major investments are forthcoming.)

The parking lot right beside Lees is owned and used by uOttawa. Seeing as land near the campus is hard to find, I doubt that the university wants to sell it. It could be the site for a future student residence.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

The parking lot right beside Lees is owned and used by uOttawa. Seeing as land near the campus is hard to find, I doubt that the university wants to sell it. It could be the site for a future student residence.

I thought that one was the City. I didn't realize that they had land across Lees. With the state of university finances these days, it could be a temporary terminal for quite a while I bet.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by phil235

I thought that one was the City. I didn't realize that they had land across Lees. With the state of university finances these days, it could be a temporary terminal for quite a while I bet.

According to GeoOttawa, 191 Lees Ave (surrounding the station) is owned by the city.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by roger1818

According to GeoOttawa, 191 Lees Ave (surrounding the station) is owned by the city.

There was an exchange of land between the City during the LRT phase 1 construction. The City got some land from uOttawa to build the LRT on and uOttawa got some land from the City in exchange. It includes the land beside the Lees station which is now uOttawa parking lot G4. The university also got the Robinson Bowl which was previously used as a city snow dump and and is currently not being used for anything.

Personally , I think the university got a good deal. They wanted LRT to the campus and got it. They gained land in the exchange. Land that can figure in future development.

I suggest that GeoOttawa may not be aware of the exchange.

[AuxTown]

Anywhere in the city with direct access to the highway and the LRT makes sense to me. The previous station was super inaccessible to transit so anything close to LRT will be an upgrade. Tremblay makes the most sense given how central it is and the surrounding land with multiple spots to build a little bus loop. I wonder if it would make sense for Via to share their terminal with the buses?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by roger1818

According to GeoOttawa, 191 Lees Ave (surrounding the station) is owned by the city.

Thanks both for the background. I still think that the university should consider leasing some space to the bus lines. But agreed that Via is probably an equally good option.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I think this problem is beyond the scope of City Hall.

City hall can easily regulate the guesswork out of invisible intercity bus stops.