The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Helladog]

East Point Shopping: Retail on the Rise
Published Tuesday May 20th, 2008

Retailers already open: Home Depot, Montana's, Hampton Inn, Moore's, Fairweather, International Clothiers, Urban Planet, Le Chateau, Cotton Ginny, Glamour Secrets, Randy River, Roots 73.

Coming soon: Starbucks (within a couple of weeks), Indigo (July-August of 2008), Costco (to be announced).

Extras: The development features spotlights that can be seen for miles in the evening sky; the site includes the province's first free-standing Starbucks; the Indigo store is using an award-winning design that will be only the second of its kind in Canada when it opens; East Point plans improvements next winter to the outdoor skating rink that proved very popular this past winter.

Did you know? More than 38,000 cars pass by East Point daily, on two major thoroughfares.

Bus route: Retail Drive at East Point on the city's regular transit route.

Big numbers: More than 133,000 consumers live in the immediate area of East Point and more than 225,000 people live within the catchment area of a one-hour drive from East Point.

Size: There are more than 80 acres under active development at East Point.

Growing: There are nearly 300,000 square feet of development now at East Point and ultimately that number will reach 700,000 square feet.

[Helladog]

Can't see the light
Published Monday May 19th, 2008
Transportation Pilot says city airport would have fewer delays if it invested in centreline lighting

SAINT JOHN - Centreline runway lighting for what is arguably New Brunswick's foggiest airport could be considered when the Saint John Airport revisits its strategic and capital plan, says its CEO Bernard LeBlanc.
Caption
Noel Chenier/Telegraph-Journal
The Saint John Airport is expected to direct its $800,000 surplus toward expansion of the terminal building and parking lot.

It isn't in this year's capital budget, said LeBlanc, but it could be in the future "if it helps us long-term, in terms of landing more planes, getting more revenue, safety of passengers, that type of thing."

Instead, the airport would like to use its $800,000 surplus to expand the terminal building and the parking lot to accommodate passenger traffic growth, which was up 25 per cent last year.

"This proposed expansion will not only allow the addressing of security clearance, check-in and parking congestion but, more significantly, will ensure that it does not get worse with the upcoming market activity resulting from area energy projects," said LeBlanc.

Dale Hackett, Irving Oil Transport's chief pilot, is leading the charge to have the lighting installed because, he says, there are far too many delays due to fog.

"I've spoken with all the operators out of here," says Hackett. "Every single one, all the pilots, agree 100 per cent that this should happen."

From a flight-safety perspective, installing the lighting is a "no-brainer", he said.

"It should have been done years ago."

Centreline lighting, as the name suggests, is lighting that runs along the centre line of an airport runway. As it stands now, Saint John Airport runways have lighting only along the sides.

Both LeBlanc and David Barry, past chairman of the airport board, say the only request for centreline lighting has come from Hackett and that major airlines, like Air Canada, SunWing and Westjet, have never asked for it.

Costs, Barry said, are "prohibitive in the context of requirement", recalling that the pricetag was in the million-dollar range. Plus, two years ago, the maintenance pricetag for the lighting was in the range of $200,000 a year, said LeBlanc.

"Unfortunately, at this point in time, it appears that the number of flights that would benefit would be minimal due to their need to have aircraft-based equipment in place to use this technology," said LeBlanc.

He said there would also be a "significant" pilot training requirement.

Of the commercial flights that land at YSJ, only the newer Air Canada jets have the required heads-up display units (HUDs), he said.

"The aircraft that would most benefit such as the Beechcraft used on Halifax flights, the DASH-8s used on Montreal flights, and most of the RJs used for Toronto flights, do not typically have this capability or the necessary equipment in place to use centreline lighting unless they are upgraded," said LeBlanc.

Only eight airports in Canada presently have centreline lighting, he said: Halifax, Hamilton, Mirabel, Dorval, St. John's, Pearson, Vancouver and Winnipeg.

Hackett contends it's become increasingly critical to have centreline lighting, since Transport Canada imposed an approach ban that forbids some aircraft from landing when visibility is poor.

With centreline lighting in place, Transport Canada allows aircraft to take off with decreased visibility, he said.

There are many mornings and evenings in Saint John, said Hackett, when planes are forced to sit at the terminal waiting for visibility to improve so they can depart. In July of last year, for example, there were 104 times that fog levels exceeded the take-off limit for some planes, according to Environment Canada data, but data reflecting how many times aircraft could not take off due to fog was not available.

"As a passenger flying out of here in the summer months, I'll go out of Fredericton or Moncton because I just can't count on the airlines for dependable service just because of the restrictions that are in place and without that centreline lighting," said Hackett.

Last June through August, said LeBlanc, planes were unable to land due to fog on only four occasions due to NavCanada's installation of new landing equipment, which has reduced weather-related delays and diversions. In 2006, aircraft were unable to land to 18 times and in 2005, there were 19 occasions.

With centreline lighting, "all the airlines operating in and out of Saint John would be able to take off almost 100 per cent of the time when it's foggy," said Hackett.

"I want the people who use the airport, the paying public, to realize that when they're sitting in this new terminal building waiting for their flight to depart and it's not leaving because the visibility's too low, that doesn't need to happen," he said.

"If centreline lighting was installed, they'd be on their way comfortably and safely to catch connecting flights."

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by Helladog

[IMG]giant photo of East Point[/IMG]

This is a conceptual image of the view from Forest Hills showing the 152,000-square-foot Costco, which will be East Point Shopping’s newest tenant. Costco is the world’s largest membership-only warehouse shopping company.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by Helladog

Can't see the light
Published Monday May 19th, 2008
Transportation Pilot says city airport would have fewer delays if it invested in centreline lighting

SAINT JOHN - Centreline runway lighting for what is arguably New Brunswick's foggiest airport could be considered when the Saint John Airport revisits its strategic and capital plan, says its CEO Bernard LeBlanc.

What a confusing article. I still can't figure out whether the center lights are only used for takeoff or are also used for landing. A bunch of random disconnected statistics which doesn't tell me what I want. Tell me how many planes couldn't fly in July last year, and how many this technology would fix.

In the last decade, I've probably taken 200 flights out of here. I've never once sat there with the plane on the runway and it being too foggy to leave. But I've sat there many times because it's been too foggy for the inbound plane to land. Or the horror of all logistics, scheduled to land at midnight, get diverted to Fredericton, wait for the bus, eventually being dropped off 4-5 a.m. at the SJ airport.

[Phantomtib]

I'm looking to buy a house out in Red Head and I've sorta picked one out for 129,000$. Is this place a good area? Why are houses selling slower in this area than others?

thanks

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

I'm looking to buy a house out in Red Head and I've sorta picked one out for 129,000$. Is this place a good area? Why are houses selling slower in this area than others?

thanks

Hopefully not too close to the cliffs...

With LNG almost ready, and a new refinery possibly being built there, there is going to be a lot of traffic, noise, probably pollution out that area. Think of 5,000 temporary workers going through the area for several years, along with associated trucks, blasting, etc. for a new refinery, it might end up a lot more disruptive than what it currently looks like.

I lived for a couple of years on Westmorland Road, which isn't very close to the current refinery. But on a calm night, I could still see flareups, and hear venting. Along with the increased traffic, that's why I no longer live in the area.

I'm sure purchase price looks interesting. Chat up your real estate agent about proximity to the new development, speculated resale value. Especially find out where new access roads, new pipelines, or other supporting development might occur. Not knowing the specific area you're looking in, maybe you're in good shape.

[thebrad]

Costco store gets closerPublished Wednesday May 21st, 2008


C1JOSH O'KANE
TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL
SAINT JOHN - It is not confirmed yet that Costco will build a big box store in the city, say representatives of East Point Shopping, but it is closer to getting there.

A purchase and sale agreement has been signed with the big box retailer, but it is subject to more conditions before the chain will come to Saint John.

Two of those conditions were before Tuesday night's planning advisory committee meeting at City Hall. The first was the issue of propane storage and delivery, and the other was allowing a wholesale component to the store under its existing zoning.

The committee approved both conditions, after several hours of deliberations.

Allowing the retailer to have a large propane tank on-site came despite the objections of some area residents at the meeting. Many were concerned about the safety of having the gas tank - 1.2 metres in diameter by 7.2 metres long - near their homes.

One group in attendance, the employees of Harbour City Propane, now fear for their business if Costco is allowed to sell propane.

"There's absolutely nothing wrong with Costco," said Ron Anderson, owner of Harbour City Propane. "Competition is good. It's just that they've got the purchasing power. It's something that we're going to have a hard time competing with.

"We looked at it five or six weeks ago, and they were selling their propane for less than what we were buying it for."

Representatives from East Point Shopping declined to comment after the meeting, but were outspoken during the meeting about the necessity of a propane tank to secure the store.

"The reality is that propane distribution is a standard offering for a Costco store," John Wheatley, a representative of the Northrup Group, which is developing East Point Shopping, told the planning committee.

If propane distribution were not allowed, it could have held the retailer from developing in the city, he said.

The PAC also gave Costco the OK to sell its products, but not propane, to wholesalers. Wholesalers would require a membership with a different fee structure than retail members, but would pay the same price for purchased products.

Other issues were brought up by area residents were those of noise, lighting, and water drainage. Some were concerned about a gas bar that was proposed to accompany the Costco, but was scrapped before the meeting.

Other than propane and wholesale issues, representatives from East Point Shopping did not mention what conditions still need to be met before Costco would agree to build.

[random11]

In order for Saint John to thrive and survive, we must build our inner core - we must capitalize and increase the tax base in the city core.

I have no issue with Costco, Indigo, Home Depot or WalMart, etc., however, reality dictates that these companies require space and they require consession's in order to operate at peak performance. They will not seek markets where these demands are not met. Obviously, companies of this magnitude do not locate in city centers. However, the reality is that the existance of such companies is sucking the life out of the uptown core - and not just the uptown - West Saint John as well - and other areas. To build and sustain a city, it is a requirement that we build our city center - with projects that will capitalize and maximize our tax base and increase population. Such projects do assist in this mandate however, being a resident in the city's uptown for 20 years, I can attest that to date, implications are trite at best.

I am fearful that what we are witnessing is a mass movement of retail development without a base to support it. Simply stated, our population is not increasing to meet this new development. One does not need a degree in economics to understand that the reason that we are witnessing such a huge increase in retail development is in "anticipation" of a population increase driven primarily by mega-projects such as LNG, a new Refinery, a new Nuclear Reactor, etc. Truth is, Saint John will witness a large influx of workers and a population increase as a result of these projects however, how many will stay as permanent residents? These mega-projects require thousands of skilled people to build them but when the physical construction begins to diminish, the actual amount of permanent jobs will be significantly less and the question begs - where will they go? The answer: To the next region of the country that is experiencing a 'boom'. The biggest question then will be, what will happen to Saint John? Like customer contact centres, when the market fluctuates and the bottom line is in the red, it's time to pack the boxes and depart. Make no mistake - These super-mega companies have no loyalty to Saint John and when profit margins decline, they will run. Can the same be said for local business who have persevered through all trials and tribulations, through the city's high times and low times? Those that survive this invasion will survive, as generations before them have as well, providing they receive our support.

In closing, please know that you will be hard pressed to find anybody who supports new development more than I. I love being witness to the new development and I find it exciting to be a part of. I am simply wondering aloud if we are missing the boat. I dream of a great Saint John once again. It is time for us to reclaim our rightful position as the economic engine and powerhouse of this province. We must do it right.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

I'm looking to buy a house out in Red Head and I've sorta picked one out for 129,000$. Is this place a good area? Why are houses selling slower in this area than others?

thanks

I lived on Anthony's Cove Rd for a couple of years and I can say it is a nice area right now. The future of the area is a bit uncertain, though I don't think it will affect property values.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by random11

In order for Saint John to thrive and survive, we must build our inner core - we must capitalize and increase the tax base in the city core.

I have no issue with Costco, Indigo, Home Depot or WalMart, etc., however, reality dictates that these companies require space and they require consession's in order to operate at peak performance. They will not seek markets where these demands are not met. Obviously, companies of this magnitude do not locate in city centers. However, the reality is that the existance of such companies is sucking the life out of the uptown core - and not just the uptown - West Saint John as well - and other areas. To build and sustain a city, it is a requirement that we build our city center - with projects that will capitalize and maximize our tax base and increase population. Such projects do assist in this mandate however, being a resident in the city's uptown for 20 years, I can attest that to date, implications are trite at best.

I am fearful that what we are witnessing is a mass movement of retail development without a base to support it. Simply stated, our population is not increasing to meet this new development. One does not need a degree in economics to understand that the reason that we are witnessing such a huge increase in retail development is in "anticipation" of a population increase driven primarily by mega-projects such as LNG, a new Refinery, a new Nuclear Reactor, etc. Truth is, Saint John will witness a large influx of workers and a population increase as a result of these projects however, how many will stay as permanent residents? These mega-projects require thousands of skilled people to build them but when the physical construction begins to diminish, the actual amount of permanent jobs will be significantly less and the question begs - where will they go? The answer: To the next region of the country that is experiencing a 'boom'. The biggest question then will be, what will happen to Saint John? Like customer contact centres, when the market fluctuates and the bottom line is in the red, it's time to pack the boxes and depart. Make no mistake - These super-mega companies have no loyalty to Saint John and when profit margins decline, they will run. Can the same be said for local business who have persevered through all trials and tribulations, through the city's high times and low times? Those that survive this invasion will survive, as generations before them have as well, providing they receive our support.

In closing, please know that you will be hard pressed to find anybody who supports new development more than I. I love being witness to the new development and I find it exciting to be a part of. I am simply wondering aloud if we are missing the boat. I dream of a great Saint John once again. It is time for us to reclaim our rightful position as the economic engine and powerhouse of this province. We must do it right.

I agreewith you, these stores to take away from the uptown, but uptown is still a unique market of it's own. If Cost-cow wanted to locate uptown, it would have to demolish the better half of the south end to do so...I'd be just as worried that other nearby stores would suffer; hopefully the market can sustain it all.

[Helladog]

Education Saint John posts fifth-largest gain among Canadian communities: national studyC1
Ben Shingler
TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL

SAINT JOHN - Saint John ranks as one of the five most improved communities in the country in terms of lifelong learning, according to a study released Wednesday.

Learning levels in Saint John increased by nearly six per cent in 2007, according to a report issued by the Canadian Council on Learning. The ratings are compiled by measuring a variety of indicators. Learning levels in the city jumped by nearly six per cent to reach a score of 74 in 2007, for the fifth-largest gain of any community in Canada, said the report issued by the Canadian Council on Learning.

The ratings are compiled by measuring a variety of indicators, ranging from youth literacy levels and graduation rates to job training and access to cultural institutions.

"We realized as a community we needed to be more competitive and attract people to the city," said Enterprise Saint John economic development officer Wendy Papadopoulos.

"People from different sectors have created an environment where all of these people - the arts groups, the private sector and the politicians - worked together."

Fredericton's rating also rose 4.5 per cent for a score of 79, and Moncton saw a 1.8 per cent increase to remain one point above Saint John for its learning rating.

On the whole, the province's rating climbed by 3.3 per cent, yet remains nine points below the national average of 77.

Paul Cappon, president and CEO of the Canadian Council on Learning, said the ratings point not only to the state of learning in a city, but also its quality of life and economic growth.

The Canadian Council on Learning is an independent, non-profit corporation that promotes and supports research to improve all aspects of learning across the country. It is funded by the federal Department of Funded by Human Resources and Social Development.

New Brunswick Education Minister Kelly Lamrock acknowledeged the province's low position in the rankings, but said the education programs put in place two years ago are beginning to pay dividends.

"We knew we were at the bottom of these rankings when we were elected, and we're moving in the right direction," Lamrock said, citing the community schools program launched in June 2007 as one example.

But Saint John saw the biggest rise, at 6.7 per cent, in the category of technical and vocational training.

"Learning at work is the big story in Saint John," said Cappon.

In explaining the increase, Papadopoulos points to a rise in staff training and the number of working-age adults upgrading their education.

J.D. Irving, Limited for instance, has improved collaboration with the community college and university in Saint John to ensure it has enough trained workers.

"It's very important we work with these institutions so we grow our skilled labour force," said Mary Keith, J.D. Irving's vice-president of communications.

Last year, the New Brunswick Community College in Saint John was near at full capacity, with more than 1,200 full- and part-time students enrolled.

"Because of this energy boom we're looking at here, our applications are just through the ceiling," said academic dean Aline Munro.

"Employers know their needs are going to be met through these programs."

Cappon said growth of the performing arts and home Internet service also played a role in Saint John's improved score.

For the second year in a row, Canada's overall score improved, with the greatest upward trends seen in Quebec and Atlantic Canada.

St. John's, N.L. jumped 9.3 per cent, for the highest increase of any city across the country.

Victoria and Ottawa were the top performers amongst Canada's major cities with scores of 93 apiece, while Alberta and British Columbia had the highest province-wide ratings 85 and 80 respectively.

[random11]

SAINT JOHN - At least one nearby business is not happy about the new park being built across from City Hall, but the general manager of the Saint John Waterfront Development Partnership says a "little pain" of construction will mean a lot of pleasure for the city by mid-August.

Work continues at the Saint Andrews Park across from City Hall at the foot of King Street. Barbour's General Store next to Loyalist Plaza, across Water Street, is to be moved to this site. The project is expected to be completed by mid-August. "What we're trying to do is extend the green space in the downtown core," Ross Jefferson said.

Construction is well underway at Saint Andrews Park. The formerly tiny park and adjacent bus turnaround are being transformed into the new site for the two mini-museums currently in Loyalist Plaza - the Little Red School House and Barbour's General Store. The John Hooper sculpture People in Waiting will be placed in front of the buildings, the park signage will be restored, and new trees planted. Also, new lighting, seating, and interpretive panels consistent with the Trinity Royal Design theme will be introduced.

It's the latest step in refurbishing the Water Street area for citizens and cruise ship visitors, and will make room for the planned Hardman Group development at the former Coast Guard site. Jefferson said he wouldn't want to prejudge that western site until public consultations happen, but he expects the development partnership and the Hardman Group will work together to better prepare the space for large public events, such as concerts.

Most events in the uptown now occur on the long, narrow Market Square boardwalk, and Jefferson believes the area could be upgraded and laid out better.

"It's really crammed full of picnic tables and pop machines and random sort of things," he said.

While Jefferson expects people will be pleased with the park, it does have at least one source of opposition. Margret and Axel Begner, owners of Opera Bistro on Prince William Street, wrote a letter to common council and city staff in mid-April saying that the new park is "totally unacceptable."

They wrote that during the waterfront development consultation process Saint Andrews Park was to remain a green space and that they would be told if anything would change.

The Begners say they weren't informed, that the development (which will face City Hall) will not enhance the "curb appeal" of businesses on Prince William Street, and that they weren't given timely notice of the construction. Once the project is completed, patrons will only have a vacant wall to look at, the letter says.

Speaking last week, Margret Begner said the master plan for the harbour only showed green space there. "When and why and how did it change?" she said, adding that moving the buildings to Prince William makes them more prone to graffiti.

Begner said if she wants to change a property it's much more difficult than if the city does something. "It's measured here with two different measuring tapes, I think."

Jefferson wrote a letter to council as well.

Without mentioning Opera Bistro, it says that there was a "very comprehensive attempt" to get input and feedback. It says that 31 special interest groups were separately consulted, there was a special design input session for property and business owners on Prince William and Water streets, plus a few one-on-one meetings with businesses on request.

Then, Jefferson writes, the preliminary designs were unveiled at a meeting on the waterfront in 2006. Comment cards were circulated to people in attendance, he said.

"The event was well attended and well promoted with special invitations distributed through several channels, advertising in the local papers, and ... overwhelming support via the media," he writes."In total, more than 15 separate stories, many including the designs, were published in the local newspaper about the project in addition to 11 additional press releases and/or updates to council in the open session."

At the same time, Jefferson said the partnership will be reviewing its consultations to see if any improvements can be made. "We do strive to get as much public input as possible," he said.

[kwajo]

I was reading the comments on the TJ site about the article posted by random11, and though the commenters are always out-to-lunch, this particular discussion was full of a lot of misinformation. People think that the General Store and school house are being moved just for the park, when in reality it not only opens up room for the Coast Guard site re-development, but also will house an electrical sub-station underneath the buildings, thus allowing for greater electrical demands Uptown and saving us from an ugly above-ground sub-station (like the one near Harbour Passage).

People also seem to think that it was the Hardman Group's fault that the Coast Guard work hasn't started yet, instead of understanding that the negotiation of purchase between the Feds and the City was the problem, not the developer.

I think my point is that the city should be doing a better job of communicating why it is that this construction is taking place, so that citizens will be able to better understand why it is valuable work being done, not simply a waste of money.

I bet we can look forward to more of the same this Summer with the Princess Street work, I anticipate a lot of people will complain about wasting money and not having public consultation, when all they are doing is trying to not only beautify the city, but also provide much-needed improvements to electrical, water and road infrastructure.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by kwajo

People also seem to think that it was the Hardman Group's fault that the Coast Guard work hasn't started yet, instead of understanding that the negotiation of purchase between the Feds and the City was the problem, not the developer.

People - cough, me, cough - blame Hardman in part because they are the ones who set the benchmarks that they haven't met. Hardman over promised and under delivered.

Hardman is good at making announcements, I want to see soon that they are good at developing projects.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by random11

SAINT JOHN - At least one nearby business is not happy about the new park being built across from City Hall, but the general manager of the Saint John Waterfront Development Partnership says a "little pain" of construction will mean a lot of pleasure for the city by mid-August...

I spent some time this morning yelling at the wind about this and then blogged about it (based on readership numbers, I think the wind was a more effective way to vent than the blog). Anyway, my opinion on the topic is probably considered negative by those who don't like people questioning development or development agencies, so I'll link to my opinion rather than posting it.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

People - cough, me, cough - blame Hardman in part because they are the ones who set the benchmarks that they haven't met. Hardman over promised and under delivered.

Hardman is good at making announcements, I want to see soon that they are good at developing projects.

Fair enough, but when was the last time any Saint John project was actually completed on time? I guess I'm just optimistic about it getting accomplished in short order once the land transfer is fully realized. Perhaps the solution would have been to hold off on the project announcement until the land buyout was complete, but the city tried that with the North fo Union project and got lombasted for it, so who knows.

I do agree with your blog post about the Waterfront Development Partnership though, sometimes I just don't understand their vision for the harbourfront at all.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Fair enough, but when was the last time any Saint John project was actually completed on time? I guess I'm just optimistic about it getting accomplished in short order once the land transfer is fully realized. Perhaps the solution would have been to hold off on the project announcement until the land buyout was complete, but the city tried that with the North fo Union project and got lombasted for it, so who knows.

I do agree with your blog post about the Waterfront Development Partnership though, sometimes I just don't understand their vision for the harbourfront at all.

I suppose that's why Hooper's "People Waiting" is a public art piece.

[random11]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Fair enough, but when was the last time any Saint John project was actually completed on time? I guess I'm just optimistic about it getting accomplished in short order once the land transfer is fully realized. Perhaps the solution would have been to hold off on the project announcement until the land buyout was complete, but the city tried that with the North fo Union project and got lombasted for it, so who knows.

I do agree with your blog post about the Waterfront Development Partnership though, sometimes I just don't understand their vision for the harbourfront at all.

I agree. Despite the pretty Saint John harbour front website (http://www.sjwaterfront.com/) and splendidly written mission statements, I fail to see the vision either. I've said it before - any city in it's right mind with the water front access that we have would have moved 10 years ago - not 10 years from now. I know things take time however, it is painful to witness how slow.

PS. - That comment about the Hooper 'People in waiting' was hilarious.

[Helladog]

Geez, you smart fellers with your witty comments are making the rest of us who want development at all costs look bad.

[Lamezia]

Originally Posted by Helladog

Geez, you smart fellers with your witty comments are making the rest of us who want development at all costs look bad.

Perhaps you will allow an observation from an outsider on what's happening downtown.
As an outsider, I see a massive transformation taking place.You may or may not like some or all of it but it's happening.And to criticize around the edges about start dates, completion dates, delays etc is to miss the big picture.
A cruise ship terminal and the park across from City Hall is being built.Rocca's condo project and the North of Union project are ready to go and Hardma's project and Pugsley Park projects are in the wings.
THIS IS MASSIVE, TRANSFORMATIONAL INVESTMENT FOR ANY DOWNTOWN!! stop whining and get out there and make sure they are the best development they can be because they will define what you and toursits will think of your City for another generation.Is it really important in the scheme of things whether they are six months late in starting or in getting completed?
In what other downtown in North America do you see such a DIVERSITY of projects in their core? You should be celebrating AND working to make them be the best they can be rather than marginalize yourselves with a silly academic conversation about meaningless detail. You remind me of the person that just finished watching the greatest superball game of all time that went into overtime and his only comment was that it would have been a good game if it had not lasted so long.