Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Nobody really knows the origin although plenty of probabilities have been brought forward. It's assumed that 'Chinois' was just added to the name in the same way that the food was added together to make the dish.

Chinese hot pot is referred to as fondue Chinoise in French as well, soooo....

This is what I suspect. Growing up in rural Quebec with some of my extended family members coming from some of the deepest places one could imagine in Southern Quebec, I’ve seen some recipes that probably never made it out of the region in my youth, and are therefore un-googleable. I recall an obscure dish called “fricousse”. I seem to recall there was another dish with the suffix “chinois”. It just means that a number of ingredients have been mixed-up, I suspect. The theory that this dish came from Lachine is laughable imo.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by le calmar

This is what I suspect. Growing up in rural Quebec with some of my extended family members coming from some of the deepest places one could imagine in Southern Quebec, I’ve seen some recipes that probably never made it out of the region in my youth, and are therefore un-googleable. I recall an obscure dish called “fricousse”. I seem to recall there was another dish with the suffix “chinois”. It just means that a number of ingredients have been mixed-up, I suspect. The theory that this dish came from Lachine is laughable imo.

https://www.recettes.qc.ca/recettes/recette/macaroni-chinois-178910

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by lio45

https://www.recettes.qc.ca/recettes/recette/macaroni-chinois-178910

That’s not it, but I’ve had quite a few times in my youth as well. But in this case, it’s called “chinois” because of the soya sauce.

Edit: Maybe that’s what I had in mind after all

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Mezza is a good place to eat, but as someone123 says, their specialty is shawarma (which is made from chicken breast meat and is absolutely nothing like a donair). The first clue that they are not a "go to" place for donairs is that they call them "donair wraps"...

But seriously, their donairs are alright but they are not what I would call a typical "Halifax donair", like you would get at KOD or similar. I find that their donair meat isn't spiced as aggressively as a "standard" donair, and the meat tends to be shaved thinner and somewhat 'soggy' due to the fact that they shave it (with the same tool as the shawarma) in advance and put it into some kind of drawer to keep it warm until needed. Then they heat it up on the grill with some oil when they are assembling the donair for a customer. Their sauce tends to be somewhat runny as well, in that you no longer taste it when you're halfway through the donair - it has no "staying power"...

I like them alright, but would say (my opinion) that they are a 6 or 7 out of 10 compared to the donair specialty shops.

Also, they have chicken souvlakia skewers that are spiced with more of a middle eastern flavour than traditional Greek souvlakia. In addition their hummous has more of a smoky flavour than the more garlicky flavour that I'm accustomed to. Again, it's alright, but not the best.

Their shawarma is very good IMHO, but I haven't had shawarma from other places so I can't say how it stacks up.

I'm sure this differs for others, but my favourite characteristics of a donair would be that it is cut directly from the spit when it's being made, so that you have a little of that cooked "crust" on the outside of the meat (and it's not soggy); it should be cut with a large, sharp knife such that each piece has a little thickness to it and it's not a bunch of uniform slices, the spices have to give you a kick in the rear to let you know they are there, the donair sauce has to have some thickness to it (somewhere along the line of prepared mustard for viscosity, IMHO), freshly diced onions and tomatoes, and a fresh pita that is grilled just enough to have a combination of softness with a slight crunch on the outside (but not grilled enough that it breaks apart when you're eating it), and no excessive oil used in the grilling process.

JMHO, and TBH I haven't had a "standard" donair in a few years, so I'm going mostly by memory.

Perhaps it's time to get back to Quebec discussions?

Agree with everything above. Mezza is quick and available (drive thru, for example) but their Donair is nothing special. Hole-in-the-wall places will get you the good stuff.

[esquire]

^ I seem to average a visit to Nova Scotia every 10-15 years, so I'll try again in 2035.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I seem to average a visit to Nova Scotia every 10-15 years, so I'll try again in 2035.

If you happen to be heading west any time, KOD now has locations in Saskatoon, Grande Prairie, and Calgary. I assume that their recipe will be the same as Halifax stores.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

If you happen to be heading west any time, KOD now has locations in Saskatoon, Grande Prairie, and Calgary. I assume that their recipe will be the same as Halifax stores.

OK, that's handy... thank you for that. I'm sure it won't be long until I'm in Calgary again, I'll check it out.

There is this place in my neighbourhood, it even has donair in the name?! But I've never actually had the donair there. I'll order some next time I pop in.

[JHikka]

There's a few East Coast places in Toronto. Jessy's Pizza on Dundas West (now closed RIP) had an average donair and garlic fingers. College Falafel on Ossington has a fine enough donair.

I've yet to visit East Coast Donair & Grill in Koreatown but given its location it must be doing something right if it continues to survive.

I've yet to make it out to any of the five Pizza Delight locations in rural Ontario but i'm curious to see if they hold up to the locations out east. I'm told the PD garlic fingers from Costco aren't legit.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I seem to average a visit to Nova Scotia every 10-15 years, so I'll try again in 2035.

Glass-half-empty (Maritimer?) take: “based on the past quarter century, it appears you only visit NS when a global pandemic takes all non-Canadian destinations firmly off the table”

[esquire]

Originally Posted by lio45

Glass-half-empty (Maritimer?) take: “based on the past quarter century, it appears you only visit NS when a global pandemic takes all non-Canadian destinations firmly off the table”

What is with this culture of defeat?

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by esquire

at this place. It was basically identical to what I'd get at home in Winnipeg at Shawarma Khan except that it had the sweet donair sauce instead of garlic sauce. They're both good, but I think I prefer the garlic sauce.

Hmmm I have had Shawarma Khans donairs. I wouldn't say they're identical to east coat donairs. Don't get me wrong I like shawarma khan but their donairs are quite different from what i am used to. By the way, is their exchange location closed????

Never had Mezza, so I can't comment on their donairs. I grew up in Halifax eating KOD and Tonys donair. Never had anything close to them outside of NS yet.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by esquire

OK, that's handy... thank you for that. I'm sure it won't be long until I'm in Calgary again, I'll check it out.

I'm hoping that they will serve a "proper" donair ().

I've only had donairs outside of NS twice in my life. Once in Calgary in 1983 where, much to my chagrin, they served non-spiced ground beef in a pita and called it a "donair". The second time was in BC (Revelstoke, IIRC) in 2015, when we stopped into a restaurant that had "Halifax Donair" as a menu item. I was so surprised to see it that I decided to give it a try, and it was very good - I asked the waiter about how they were able to produce a reasonable facsimile of a donair, and he replied that the chef was from Halifax.

Originally Posted by esquire

There is this place in my neighbourhood, it even has donair in the name?! But I've never actually had the donair there. I'll order some next time I pop in.

I'm a little skeptical, as the menu describes the "donair wrap" as donair meat with your choice of toppings and sauces. Might be alright, though, you never know.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by lio45

Glass-half-empty (Maritimer?) take: “based on the past quarter century, it appears you only visit NS when a global pandemic takes all non-Canadian destinations firmly off the table”

Actual Martimer take: "Wow! Somebody from the ROC realized that land east of Quebec exists, and that it is actually part of Canada!"

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Actual Martimer take: "Wow! Somebody from the ROC realized that land east of Quebec exists, and that it is actually part of Canada!"

I get the impression this is changing and the Maritimes are becoming more of a "normal" place now. It was definitely not true in the past and during the Harper years even the PM would trash talk the region. I think they registered as a normal region up to maybe the 1960's or a bit later, but that's all before my time.

I think Canadians often miss the forest for the trees. While there is a lot of gatekeeping and regionalism, the Maritimes offer something interesting and complementary to the rest of the country. Canada as a whole is not a large country so if you write off some parts (east vs. west, Newfoundland vs. mainland, Ontario and westward, Quebec vs. dreary Anglo cultural dead zones, pick your poison) you're not exactly left with an overwhelming list of places.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

I get the impression this is changing and the Maritimes are becoming more of a "normal" place now.

More work needs to be done. For most the Atlantic provinces are a foggy amalgam. Most Ontarians revolve around the 'oh yeah, I went to Halifax when I was 10' whenever anywhere east of Quebec is mentioned.

[esquire]

It's clearly an area of great interest to many Canadians from a tourism standpoint. The areas of PEI that I visited, as well as Halifax and area, seemed absolutely jam packed with visitors from outside the region... mainly Ontario, Quebec and the northeastern states. Even NB had their share of tourists although they seemed more of the 'passing through' variety, lots of people staying for one night at the Moncton Delta, for example.

I saw far, far more out of province plates than I would ever see here in Manitoba. I would imagine that didn't happen overnight, i.e. it's not just a pandemic related phenomenon. For what it's worth, my trip was originally booked in 2019 (before covid) and was scheduled for 2020, but it couldn't happen until now.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I'm a little skeptical, as the menu describes the "donair wrap" as donair meat with your choice of toppings and sauces. Might be alright, though, you never know.

I'm PRETTY sure that's to distinguish itself from the various "plates" they serve, which are deconstructed versions of the wraps. They also have "half and half" plates and wraps which are 1/2 chicken shwarma and 1/2 donair meat. Kinda weird, but not bad. The sides are decent as well, with fatoush and tabbouleh.

[esquire]

^ My wife and I are fans of the plates... for her it's because she can't eat bread, for me it's because there's MOAR FOOD

[Denscity]

I've got to mention the shawarma row in Vancouver on Denman Street near Davie. 4 of them side by side with a 5th on the next block. Babylon Cafe is one of them if not two lol and have a few locations downtown.
Any love for the Greek gyro?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

I'm PRETTY sure that's to distinguish itself from the various "plates" they serve, which are deconstructed versions of the wraps. They also have "half and half" plates and wraps which are 1/2 chicken shwarma and 1/2 donair meat. Kinda weird, but not bad. The sides are decent as well, with fatoush and tabbouleh.

Makes sense. I was just looking at the pic on their order page and it looked like it had lettuce and such in it... which would make me believe they aren't trying to hit the "authenticity" target. Not that it would be bad... I'm sure it would be quite tasty, but not a "Halifax Donair" (if there even is such a thing... like I don't really go for identifying a food by a place, but it seems to be a thing here).