London Roads

[ssiguy]

I have always thought that UWO and Fanshawe should contribute funding to the LTC for late night service going to and from downtown at least for Friday and Saturday nights.
Think about it..................just an extra $1 per course would send about 300,000 into the LTC treasury which is more than enough to have very high frequency late night/early morning service.
Has this idea ever been discussed?

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by haljackey

If the CP rail line was ever removed or rerouted, I could see that corridor converted to a busway or possibly even future LRT. Having a route exclusively for transit would vastly improve the efficiency and practicalness of the system.

I've seen this proposal before, but I'm not sure how fitting the CP route would be. From an urban transport standpoint it basically goes nowhere; it doesn't connect any malls or major points of interest, it doesn't run through the downtown core, and it doesn't run through any areas with notable high density development. With the exception of Wharncliffe/Oxford and Richmond/Oxford, it doesn't really pass by any important intersections, either.

Originally Posted by haljackey

The proposed freeway on the west side is a pipe dream to say the least. It's like someone just drew a line ignoring how it would connect with the 402/401 (we don't even know if it will hook up with the 401) or how it would navigate developed and ecologically sensitive land in the west. The freeway in the north will probably never happen. The only possible way this one would get built is if London annexes Arva and other land to the north and there's magically enough money and demand to warrant it's construction.

I was thinking the Westdel Bourne, if twinned, would make a good expressway. It's easy to connect it both to the 401 and the 402, and there seems to be little in the way of obstacles. With development in the West End moving as it is now, it's quite possible that this corridor will be of value in the future. I agree bringing the road along the top of the city would be an issue, although as London has proven in the past, municipal annexations are not all too difficult. Money is always an issue, which is why I wish the apathetic voters of this city would demand more from the provincial and federal government in exchange for their seats. People vote too often based on who is the leader of the political party and not enough on who is representing them.

Originally Posted by haljackey

Industry is attracted with good infrastructure, particularly freeways. So why then are the 401 and 402 corridors not zoned for industrial development and the VMP not yet built to freeway standards? Our mayor's #1 priority is to add jobs yet they are overlooking a critical aspect. Politics isn't perfect I guess.

I think an anti-development council is more of an issue than a bumbling mayor. During the past municipal election, I had the pleasure of speaking with Ward 5 councilor Joni Baechler. Her attitude towards things is largely indicative of council as a whole, which could explain why London is such an underperforming city. I asked if she would be in favour of a ring road if the provincial and federal governments were to fund a substantial portion of it. She stated that she was opposed because it encourage automobile use and "the age of the automobile is almost over". I asked about zoning the 401/402 corridor for industrial use, and she was also opposed because "we need to protect London's farmland" (ignoring the fact that, if prices are any indication, urban land is several hundred times more productive than agricultural land). At the same time she spoke glowingly about attracting high-tech industry to the city, of course with no new industrial capacity being built to accomodate it

A long-time resident (who happens to be my neighbour) told me not to be surprised by this, because it's been the prevailing attitude of council for the past two decades. They want to preserve their small-town feel with no regard for the Londoners who want to see this place advance. London seems to have an unstated desire to steal companies and their workers from a declining Toronto, which will never happen if this line of thinking prevails.

[manny_santos]

Just went down Wonderland Road south of Southdale. There's new traffic signals going in at a non-descript location, and the city has erected signage at the intersection...Bradley Avenue.

Wonder if the planned extension is finally going in this year.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I've seen this proposal before, but I'm not sure how fitting the CP route would be. From an urban transport standpoint it basically goes nowhere; it doesn't connect any malls or major points of interest, it doesn't run through the downtown core, and it doesn't run through any areas with notable high density development. With the exception of Wharncliffe/Oxford and Richmond/Oxford, it doesn't really pass by any important intersections, either.

It wouldn't be an important route on its own, but I believe it can be integrated into a routing connecting Central London with UWO, while allowing for Richmond Street north of Oxford to not have to be widened beyond a 4-5 lane cross-section. Think of a busway running westward from Richmond along the CP right-of-way to Platt's Lane, and then turning north along Platt's and then Western Road. Stops at Richmond, Wharncliffe, and Platt's would get very heavy usage from Western students. An extension westward to Sarnia and Wonderland would serve students living in that area.

East of there the CP corridor could become part of another busway to Fanshawe from downtown, if it went as far as First Street and then turned north towards the college.

Big problem is that the corridor would not get much usage outside of school times. During May-August it would serve summer students at Fanshawe, a small number of summer students and employees at Western, and perhaps the industrial areas east of downtown.

[haljackey]

The Kitchener Rangers made 4 commercials about how to use a roundabout. Is this a new low?

Example:
• Video Link

The other 3: http://www.goroundabout.ca/web/region.nsf/roundabout_index2.html?OpenPage

Next thing you know the Knights will do a roundabout commercial for Hale/Trafalgar.

[ForestryW]

Originally Posted by Wharn

A long-time resident (who happens to be my neighbour) told me not to be surprised by this, because it's been the prevailing attitude of council for the past two decades. They want to preserve their small-town feel with no regard for the Londoners who want to see this place advance. London seems to have an unstated desire to steal companies and their workers from a declining Toronto, which will never happen if this line of thinking prevails.

This. It's especially bad in London but the same attitude is true of most mid-size cities in Ontario.

Why? I don't know but I suspect it has something to do with the Boomers playing a disproportionately powerful role in urban politics.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

The Kitchener Rangers made 4 commercials about how to use a roundabout. Is this a new low?

Next thing you know the Knights will do a roundabout commercial for Hale/Trafalgar.

While that commercial is ridiculous, at the same time people do not know how to drive around the roundabout. Maybe 10% of people use signals correctly, you have some people stopping at the yield sign even if there is no traffic. I use it 2-3 times a day so it's actually quite frustrating as the flow of cars should be much better than it currently is if people just took the time to understand how to use it.

[Kokkei Mizu]

I was driving yesterday in a new neighbourhood in St. Thomas which has a roundabout for an intersection of two collector roads. I was approaching the roundabout, ready to yield to a person in the roundabout. When they were about to pass my entrance, they decide they'll stop because they think I have the right of way, even though they were already in the roundabout!

[haljackey]

Road map of London from the city's official plan (2001):

(Click the image for full size.)


Funny how the City of London classifies Highbury a freeway from Hamilton to the 401. The MTO and others list it as an expressway which is the correct classification.

It also lists a few proposed / planned projects.
-Why no proposed interchanges on the VMP at Bradley and Hamilton? Why no planned extension to Clarke? Those have been on the books for a while.
-Also, no proposed changes to the triangle of death? I guess they're still evaluating that one.

[MolsonExport]

see the huge problem in the West? No E-W connector between Fanshawe-pk and Oxfart. Lot of people, a lot of development, a lot of needless diverted traffic. I am all for preserving woodlands, but just imagine if Gainsborough could link up with Windermere. Or if Sarnia Road could go right through to Richmond. lovely map of freeway interchanges where absolutely nobody the fuck lives.

[Kokkei Mizu]

I didn't know London's north border is halfway between Sunningdale and Medway!? Why can't the ring road be built right at the border. Like this:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl...791,-81.24321&spn=0.203447,0.308647&z=12

- Extend VMP to Clarke.
- Upgrade Clarke to north of Sunningdale.
- Follow London's north border to just past Hyde Park.
- Loosely follow London's west border to cross the Thames.
- Follow parallel to Westdel Bourne until south of Byron Baseline.
- Upgrade Westerdel Borne from Byron Baseline to 402.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Kokkei Mizu

I didn't know London's north border is halfway between Sunningdale and Medway!? Why can't the ring road be built right at the border. Like this:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl...791,-81.24321&spn=0.203447,0.308647&z=12

- Extend VMP to Clarke.
- Upgrade Clarke to north of Sunningdale.
- Follow London's north border to just past Hyde Park.
- Loosely follow London's west border to cross the Thames.
- Follow parallel to Westdel Bourne until south of Byron Baseline.
- Upgrade Westerdel Borne from Byron Baseline to 402.

Two issues with that:

- There is a trunk gas line that runs along the northern boundary of the city, halfway between the 6th and 7th concession
- There may be no room for an interchange at Richmond Street (Highway 4) due to the development in Arva.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Kokkei Mizu

I didn't know London's north border is halfway between Sunningdale and Medway!? Why can't the ring road be built right at the border. Like this:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl...791,-81.24321&spn=0.203447,0.308647&z=12

- Extend VMP to Clarke.
- Upgrade Clarke to north of Sunningdale.
- Follow London's north border to just past Hyde Park.
- Loosely follow London's west border to cross the Thames.
- Follow parallel to Westdel Bourne until south of Byron Baseline.
- Upgrade Westerdel Borne from Byron Baseline to 402.

I think that sounds great, and would even be willing to settle for a 2 lane road with lights, as long as it's limited access the whole way. I just wanna see the damn thing built!

However, I found another stumbling block. There's this subdivision on Oxford st. West, over the bridge on the opposite side of the river as the Hunt Club. I personally want to punch whoever is behind this asinine development! It's poorly connected to the city, built where the possible ring road would go, and there's fancy gated communities with golf courses in their backyards. I mean what is this, Phoenix?

[haljackey]

At this point, the only way a northern connection will happen is if London annexes Arva and other areas north of the city. There's simply no land left in the north.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by van Hemessen

Why? I don't know but I suspect it has something to do with the Boomers playing a disproportionately powerful role in urban politics.

I don't think it's a boomer problem per se, the problem is romantic stupidity, which is (alarmingly) very prevalent among recent University graduates.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

see the huge problem in the West? No E-W connector between Fanshawe-pk and Oxfart. Lot of people, a lot of development, a lot of needless diverted traffic. I am all for preserving woodlands, but just imagine if Gainsborough could link up with Windermere.

Funny you should mention this, I got into an argument with someone the other day concerning a Windermere-Gainsborough link. Naturally, living in a house that backs on the quiet portion of Gainsborough (East of Wonderland), she was completely opposed to the idea. Only when I pointed out her selfishness was the whole "woodland" argument brought up.

Really, a measly two-lane bridge would only sacrifice a very small strip of woodland, absolutely no more than 35 metres wide, in a ravine that is otherwise several kilometres long, and provide both a much-needed road network link as well as a link for the pedestrian paths on either side of the ravine. Looking at Windermere and Gainsborough on a map, it's obvious that they were meant to be the same road, development is being hampered by the lack of the said road, people are wasting gas trying to drive to the next bridge, bus routes are crippled and dysfunctional thanks to the gap, it seems like a no-brainer to connect the two.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Or if Sarnia Road could go right through to Richmond. lovely map of freeway interchanges where absolutely nobody the fuck lives.

Not so sure about the Sarnia connection, mostly because it passes through university lands. Since it's obvious that the university wants to reduce auto traffic on campus and promote transit use, I could not see them authorizing a bridge that would conflict with those objectives. Besides which, Huron is discountinuous between Richmond and Adelaide anyways, so either the residential areas get flooded with traffic trying to make it across town, or all the cars pour out onto that narrow stretch of Richmond. And amen to the useless freeways.

[haljackey]

3 things London needs to do right now to improve it's transportation network.

1. Downtown bus hub. Getting the buses off Dundas Street is also a priority.
2. Wonderland / 401 interchange.
3. Interchanges on VMP.

[Underground100]

About the buses being removed from Dundas Street, there was a survey last fall that looked at the buses only travelling on King and Queens in between Ridout and Wellington. I took the survey and I was in favor of the pilot. If the LTC approved of it, the new routing would begin in June and run for 12 months from then.

However, only 11.8% indicated their support for the pilot, while 80% did not approve. 8.2% noted accessibility concerns. At least 44% believed it would have a negative impact on their trip.

http://www.ltconline.ca/agendas/012611viii4.pdf

For the downtown bus hub, a possibility could be the parking lot at King and Clarence.

The Wonderland/401 interchange should be started in a few years, now that the City has published the build-out of the interchange.

[Pimpmasterdac]

I really don't see why people are soo set against moving buses onto King & Queen streets?

I could understand the cripple point of view that it may be too hard to walk an extra street. Then again a lot of the major routes, like #2 Dundas aren't fully accessible so that sort of argument doesn't hold imo.

No one can argue its more efficient to have buses running on a 2 lane street than a 3 lane one way streets. Making Dundas open up more of pedestrians would be good for local businesses and attracting a more affluent clientele. This is the type of thing that could help make D n R look more respectable than the current Welfare Queen/Drug Dealer central.

If the city were to make a bridge from Riverside to King and eliminate the Dundas connection it would help make areas of downtown more accessible and more desirable!

[ForestryW]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

If the city were to make a bridge from Riverside to King and eliminate the Dundas connection it would help make areas of downtown more accessible and more desirable!

I have often thought about this. I would love to see Dundas completely pedestrianized between Talbot and Richmond. Sadly, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.

[manny_santos]

I did the survey and I indicated that the change would be inconvenient for me personally, but I also believed it was for the good of the downtown and it should happen anyways. I was willing to sacrifice a little convenience for the good of the downtown. Anything to get the scream-n-swear Rotten Ronnie's crowd dispersed.