[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[DyAm00394]

Posted this in the retail thread, sharing here too since it's Uptown related.

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

A new franchise opportunity has popped up for INS Market convenience store. Located at 15 Market Square, (City Hall building). First and only location in Atlantic Canada currently.

https://insmarket.ca/saint-john-pedway/

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Posted this in the retail thread, sharing here too since it's Uptown related.

Interesting… never heard of this brand before I wonder how it compares to the gold standard of convenience stores (7/11). I still find it astounding there’s not a single 7/11 in this city… I think an Uptown 7/11 would make an absolute killing in SJ.

[bingun]

Based on this evening's council meeting, Jo's Samosas in the City Market are terminating their lease on February 28th.

I checked their social media, but it is not clear if they are closing permanently or moving location.

[DyAm00394]

Originally Posted by bingun

Based on this evening's council meeting, Jo's Samosas in the City Market are terminating their lease on February 28th.

I checked their social media, but it is not clear if they are closing permanently or moving location.

Here's the document of this: https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=20604

"After a year of full time operation, Jo’s Samosas has decided to close their business in the City Market effective February 28, 2025, and the City has consented to a termination of their lease. The City Market offers its best wishes to the owners and staff of Jo’s Samosas and will begin to seek an exciting new tenant to fill their space in the Market".

[JakeNB]

Saint John Energy has removed pretty much all of their equipment from the former sub-station on Smythe Street. Any word on whether this will be offered for development? I wonder if SJE owns the property or whether it is actually owned by the City? It would be a great location for an apartment/condo building, being right on Harbour Passage, a short walk to Harbour Station, etc.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Saint John Energy has removed pretty much all of their equipment from the former sub-station on Smythe Street. Any word on whether this will be offered for development? I wonder if SJE owns the property or whether it is actually owned by the City? It would be a great location for an apartment/condo building, being right on Harbour Passage, a short walk to Harbour Station, etc.

I have heard there are serious contamination issues that may make development challenging. No idea if that is actually true but it would seem possible.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I have heard there are serious contamination issues that may make development challenging. No idea if that is actually true but it would seem possible.

Like with the soil? Unless they plan to give residents a community garden, I don’t get why these soil contamination issues keep popping up as reasons why certain sites can’t be developed, like sugar refinery site, partridge island, etc.

Shouldn’t an underground parking garage take care of any sort of contamination issues?

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Saint John Energy has removed pretty much all of their equipment from the former sub-station on Smythe Street. Any word on whether this will be offered for development? I wonder if SJE owns the property or whether it is actually owned by the City? It would be a great location for an apartment/condo building, being right on Harbour Passage, a short walk to Harbour Station, etc.

That would make sense... but this is SJ.

IIRC SJE owns the site [1]. The city owns the lower-case-n-shaped lot [2] that wraps around it, and an absurd little exclave to the north at the intersection [3]. The port owns about 2/5 of the parking lot [4], which I think it leases to the city.

Map: https://imgur.com/a/6fjYnM7

Even if the port won't part with this clearly surplus land, Saint John has had ample time to turn the Smythe, Harbour Passage, and water portions into Land for Public Purposes, rezone the city portion of the parking lot and the substation site to ID, and start marketing what they have. But, nothing.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

That would make sense... but this is SJ.

IIRC SJE owns the site [1]. The city owns the lower-case-n-shaped lot [2] that wraps around it, and an absurd little exclave to the north at the intersection [3]. The port owns about 2/5 of the parking lot [4], which I think it leases to the city.

Map: https://imgur.com/a/6fjYnM7

Even if the port won't part with this clearly surplus land, Saint John has had ample time to turn the Smythe, Harbour Passage, and water portions into Land for Public Purposes, rezone the city portion of the parking lot and the substation site to ID, and start marketing what they have. But, nothing.

It would certainly seem like a prime location for residential development. I know there have been flooding issues in that parking lot during spring tides in the past. I'm guessing that part of the site would need to be raised.

Speaking of parking, would the proximity to the harbour make underground parking difficult from a cost or engineering POV?

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by sailor734

It would certainly seem like a prime location for residential development. I know there have been flooding issues in that parking lot during spring tides in the past. I'm guessing that part of the site would need to be raised.

Speaking of parking, would the proximity to the harbour make underground parking difficult from a cost or engineering POV?

I'm no engineer, but if it floods occasionally, definitely a serious issue. You'd probably want to raise that whole section of Harbour Passage... maybe bring the whole stretch level with the boardwalk around 2 Union/the Hilton. Underground parking would be lower than Market Square's without this.

Not sure if it would require raising Smythe St too.

Tacking on a Harbour Passage spur from Long Wharf & Smythe to Harbour Station's main entrance would be a good way to tie Fundy Quay/uptown generally to the arena. It's only like 200m.

[sailor734]

I'm not sure how often it floods but it definitely has happened in the past. I suspect the right combination of spring tides and a gale from the SE to SW driving water up the harbour.

The sub station was actually moved due to concerns over potential flooding.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns...nfrastructure-to-higher-ground-1.5145105

[adamuptownsj]

Looking at Streetview, I can't imagine properly designed parking at, or slightly below, the current substation's ground level would be a problem. It would be notably higher than the current parking lot. Raising Smythe a few feet would be cheaper than ~400' of seawall.

I'd also love to see something immediately adjacent to the Red Rose Tea building's blank south-facing wall. Main Street narrowing will make an uptown 'gateway' much more appealing. Hell, you could even run a pedway under Union from the Mercantile Centre to it. I know some of you guys are keen on those.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Sounds like a good opportunity to apply for some climate change related funding like was done with the sea wall, and remedy the risk of flooding and sea level rise.

The the city could then heavily market it to developers and hold out for a really impressive high rise proposal even higher than Fundy Quay. There’s gotta be some incentives, including tax holidays, that could be thought up to attract bigger time developers from the rest of Canada that have infinitely more experience building high rises than the Fundy Harbour group.

High rises are quite a bit more impervious to flooding too… it would be a shame to see a typical 4-6 storey apartment box go up on such a prime piece of harbourfront real estate in the city centre.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Sounds like a good opportunity to apply for some climate change related funding like was done with the sea wall, and remedy the risk of flooding and sea level rise.

The the city could then heavily market it to developers and hold out for a really impressive high rise proposal even higher than Fundy Quay. There’s gotta be some incentives, including tax holidays, that could be thought up to attract bigger time developers from the rest of Canada that have infinitely more experience building high rises than the Fundy Harbour group.

High rises are quite a bit more impervious to flooding too… it would be a shame to see a typical 4-6 storey apartment box go up on such a prime piece of harbourfront real estate in the city centre.

The money they got to move the substation was climate change funding. I'm not sure you can double dip for the same property but who knows?

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

I would guess that there is a cost to dispose of contaminated soil excavated from a contaminated site. This would be a cost over and above excavation of a non contaminated site and adding to overall building costs and making a contaminated site more expensive to develop.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

I would guess that there is a cost to dispose of contaminated soil excavated from a contaminated site. This would be a cost over and above excavation of a non contaminated site and adding to overall building costs and making a contaminated site more expensive to develop.

Certain types of contaminated soil need to be incinerated at a licensed facility. I would imagine the trucking charges alone would be huge. Do we even have such a facility in NB?

I only know about this boondoggle from years ago in Belledune.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns...vironmental-belledune-soil-new-1.3856911

Edit.....All this is assuming the site is contaminated.....who knows?

[DyAm00394]

Posted this over on the main project thread, but sharing it here too:

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Councillor Barry Ogden has shared online, a new rendering for the proposed 6-storey building at Agar Place. (Planned development by Michael Wowchuk of Hospital Hill Development). The councillor has mentioned next to go up after this is a 12-storey with a dome on top, paying tribute to the old General Hospital.

[gtsoc]

Billy's Seafood, located in the City Market has announced that they are closing, effective immediately.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

Billy's Seafood, located in the City Market has announced that they are closing, effective immediately.

A disappointing setback in trying to get the city market back to its former self, but I can't say I am surprised with the construction next door and the increase in WFH over the last few years.

[sailor734]

The market is really struggling. I hope it can be turned around. 5-10-15 years ago I'd be in there at least 1-2, sometimes 3 times a week, often buying meat, produce, fish, baked goods and usually usually timing it so I could have lunch at Slocums or Jeremiahs. Now that I think about it, I haven't been there since before Christmas.