Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When I was a kid, people speaking in French often used to say Saint-Patrice and Saint-André for Saint Patrick and Saint Andrew streets in Lower Town Ottawa. No one says that anymore. Even the traffic reporters on francophone radio use the English names. Same goes for Tenth Line Road (la Dixième Ligne) out in Orleans.

Yes, the semi-official "French" names of St. Mary's Road and St. Anne's Road in my end of Winnipeg used to be chemin Ste-Marie and chemin Ste-Anne, but the City stopped referring to them that way at some point. I think they drew up a list of officially acceptable names and decided that those ones were going to cause confusion. So it's now ch. St. Mary's and ch. St. Anne's. I suspect that when people used to be more religious, the equivalence of St. Mary and Ste. Marie was more obvious, perhaps. Now "Marie" is one name and "Mary" another. Sort of like Charest could be baptized as "John" without anyone thinking that that somehow disentitled him from being referred to as "Jean" when the language of the conversation was French.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andy6

As far as I know, it is pronounced the same way as Dalhousie, N.B.: Port Da-LOO-zee.

Surprising.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

There are worse Ottawa names to mispronounce. Working with tourists in the Summer, I've heard
- Elgin as [el-JIN], [IL-jin] and [EEL-jin]

Port Elgin, New Brunswick is pronounced Port El-Jin.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I had to travel within the Commonwealth to find out that Canadians pronounced a good number of names from the British Isles in what the rest of the world would describe as the American way:

Strachan - strakkan (American) vs. strawn (Commonwealth)

Doherty - dorty (American) vs. dockerty (Commonwewalth)

Leah(e)y - lay-hee (American) vs. lee-hee (Commonwealth)

Mahoney - muh-hoh-nee (American) vs. maw-nee (Commonwealth)

Funny how most of these are Irish names...

All of those family names exist in Timmins and we even have a Strachan Avenue (in South Porcupine) and a Mahoney Road (in Mountjoy) and the North American pronunciations are used. I went to school with some Strachans and they pronounce it "strakkan." It was in Toronto where I first came upon it being pronounced the British way.

One exception here is MacKay Presbyterian Church. It is pronounced the proper Scottish way. It is one of the oldest churches in Timmins. But everyone with the last name MacKay in Timmins (which includes my sister-in-law) pronounces it the North American way.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

All of those family names exist in Timmins and we even have a Strachan Avenue (in South Porcupine) and a Mahoney Road (in Mountjoy) and the North American pronunciations are used. I went to school with some Strachans and they pronounce it "strakkan." It was in Toronto where I first came upon it being pronounced the British way.

One exception here is MacKay Presbyterian Church. It is pronounced the proper Scottish way. It is one of the oldest churches in Timmins. But everyone with the last name MacKay in Timmins (which includes my sister-in-law) pronounces it the North American way.

There is a MacKay St. in Ottawa right next to 24 Sussex and Rideau Hall. It's named for Thomas McKay (Mac vs. Mc, I know), one of the founders of the city.

You hear it said both ways, but the majority of people say it the North American way.

I've known a few Canadians whose name is MacKay/McKay but who pronounce it the British way.

When I was a kid the host of Reach for the Top on CBC Ottawa was called Brian Smyth. He pronounced it "smith".

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

All of those family names exist in Timmins and we even have a Strachan Avenue (in South Porcupine) and a Mahoney Road (in Mountjoy) and the North American pronunciations are used. I went to school with some Strachans and they pronounce it "strakkan." It was in Toronto where I first came upon it being pronounced the British way.

One exception here is MacKay Presbyterian Church. It is pronounced the proper Scottish way. It is one of the oldest churches in Timmins. But everyone with the last name MacKay in Timmins (which includes my sister-in-law) pronounces it the North American way.

Mackay United Church is on Mackay St in Ottawa - both are pronounced "Ma-Kaye", although some probably say "Ma-Kay". If I met someone with that surname, I'd probably say "Ma-Kay" and let them correct me if needed.

[Loco101]

Even in Nova Scotia they tend to pronounce the names the North American way.

Example: Peter MacKay (former conservative cabinet minister)

I guessing Ma-kye was used more commonly here when there were many Scottish immigrants.

And for French names:

A relative of mine whose last name is Paquette told me that he's pretty sure that his family name was originally Paquet and that it got changed when his French ancestors moved to North America. I cringe when most anglophones can't properly pronounce words or names that end in "et." An example: Claude Monet (the "et" should sound like the E in ECHO)

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Even in Nova Scotia they tend to pronounce the names the North American way.

Example: Peter MacKay (former conservative cabinet minister)

I guessing Ma-kye was used more commonly here when there were many Scottish immigrants.

And for French names:

A relative of mine whose last name is Paquette told me that he's pretty sure that his family name was originally Paquet and that it got changed when his French ancestors moved to North America. I cringe when most anglophones can't properly pronounce words or names that end in "et." An example: Claude Monet (the "et" should sound like the E in ECHO)

Those great French artists Moe-NAY and Day-GAH. Actually the latter error is harder to understand than the former. And for the music lovers, there's Bee-ZAY.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Even in Nova Scotia they tend to pronounce the names the North American way.

Example: Peter MacKay (former conservative cabinet minister)

His father, Mulroney cabinet minister Elmer MacKay, was Elmer MacKay (rhymes with "rye"). That's how recent this change is.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Mackay United Church is on Mackay St in Ottawa - both are pronounced "Ma-Kaye", although some probably say "Ma-Kay". If I met someone with that surname, I'd probably say "Ma-Kay" and let them correct me if needed.

If you're saying "MacKay" and imagining a Canadian pioneer or someone in a kilt, it would be sacrilege to say it to rhyme with "ray". There's no "Clan MacKay" (rhymes with "ray"). If you're imagining an American like Jim McKay on Monday Night Football/ABC Wide World of Sports, then it's easier -- Americans just do that kind of thing. Like the Blue Jays pitcher who pronounced his surname of McLaughlin as "McLaufflin" ... I remember the Blue Jay broadcaster having to explain that this was apparently the way they said it down in wherever, just so that viewers wouldn't think that he (the broadcaster) didn't know how to say such a common name.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Those great French artists Moe-NAY and Day-GAH. Actually the latter error is harder to understand than the former. And for the music lovers, there's Bee-ZAY.

These pronunciations are so well established that it would be pedantry to insist on the "correct" ones (which are correct in another language, not English). It would be like demanding that the French speak of "London", in an Oxbridge accent, rather than saying "Londres".

[vid]

Mount McKay in Thunder Bay, the McKay rhymes with Bay so the first five words in this sentence have a fun rhythm to them.

Locally the indigenous Ojibwe people call the mountain Anemki Wachieu (ah-NEM-key wah-CHEW) but in the more regional dialect it is Animikii Wajiw (ah-NIM-ih-key waw-JOO).

We have a McDonnell street that is always pronounced by locals as "MACK-d'-nell".

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Andy6

These pronunciations are so well established that it would be pedantry to insist on the "correct" ones (which are correct in another language, not English). It would be like demanding that the French speak of "London", in an Oxbridge accent, rather than saying "Londres".

Even if one agreed, it would not explain "Day-GAH". Two sounds are possible in English for that first syllable, depending on whether you want the "e" to be long or short, and neither one of them is "day". However, pronouncing French surnames in a way that approximates the French is the norm, is it not?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Even in Nova Scotia they tend to pronounce the names the North American way.

Example: Peter MacKay (former conservative cabinet minister)

I guessing Ma-kye was used more commonly here when there were many Scottish immigrants.

And for French names:

A relative of mine whose last name is Paquette told me that he's pretty sure that his family name was originally Paquet and that it got changed when his French ancestors moved to North America. I cringe when most anglophones can't properly pronounce words or names that end in "et." An example: Claude Monet (the "et" should sound like the E in ECHO)

There are a small number of exceptions. For example, some families named Boulet will pronounce it ''boo-lay". For example, Quebec cabinet minister Julie Boulet says her name this way. (Her father founded the cowboy boot company CA Boulet... useless anecdote).

But 90% of the time your pronunciation is bang-on.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Mackay United Church is on Mackay St in Ottawa - both are pronounced "Ma-Kaye", although some probably say "Ma-Kay". If I met someone with that surname, I'd probably say "Ma-Kay" and let them correct me if needed.

I do that with all names if I am aware of the correct pronunciation.

If you are from Saskatoon and your name is Dave Dvorak, chances are I will call you Dvor-zhak.

If you have a central European last name that ends in ''ic", I will pronounce that as ''itch'' as opposed to ''ick".

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Those great French artists Moe-NAY and Day-GAH. Actually the latter error is harder to understand than the former. And for the music lovers, there's Bee-ZAY.

My wife plays in our community orchestra so I always bug her and pronounce Bizet the proper French way. If the name was spelled Bizette then anglophones would say it right.

I wonder how anglophones did that with "et." And of course chalet is an example of a word.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There are a small number of exceptions. For example, some families named Boulet will pronounce it ''boo-lay". For example, Quebec cabinet minister Julie Boulet says her name this way. (Her father founded the cowboy boot company CA Boulet... useless anecdote).

But 90% of the time your pronunciation is bang-on.

Yes, you are right about Boulet. Excellent example of an exception.

How would you pronounce the family name Chabot ? (there are two different ways I heard in our region)

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Even in Nova Scotia they tend to pronounce the names the North American way.

Example: Peter MacKay (former conservative cabinet minister)

Haligonians pronounce their MacKay bridge properly, then.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

Haligonians pronounce their MacKay bridge properly, then.

Which is to say?

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Mackay United Church is on Mackay St in Ottawa - both are pronounced "Ma-Kaye", although some probably say "Ma-Kay". If I met someone with that surname, I'd probably say "Ma-Kay" and let them correct me if needed.

How are Ma-Kaye and Ma-Kay different? I'd say both of those the same way.

Here it depends on the family. Most are Mack-Kay. One is Mackie. None that I know are Mack-Hi, or whatever the proper pronunciation is.