Highway 1 Improvements, 216th to 264th | U/C

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

As of 2021, the number of Valley commuters (Abbotsford, Mission, Chilliwack) that actually commute outside of the FVRD is less than 22k/day; the Langleys, barely 3.5k.

Capacity of a six-lane road? 55k. Even including all the commuters headed east from Metro Van and the Sea to Sky, you'd need Abby to keep growing at 8% for the next ~50 years to warrant a fourth lane... and no amount of roadspace will clear the TCH up on weekends. Save those billions for something other than "one more lane" syndrome.

The thing that you're missing here is that the Fraser Valley denizens also use the highway to commute between points in the Valley. Sure, if you only had to deal with the through traffic it may not be an issue, but that highway is the most convenient link for local traffic in the Valley too.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

HOV lanes seem to be a bit of a failure on their own if you don't allow EVs and/or pay for access. They are empty and not enough people are willing to carpool for access.

We could see pay lanes come in after there are "too many" EVs.

FWIW the entire point of the HOV lane is for it to be emptier than the genpop lanes.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by chowhou

FWIW the entire point of the HOV lane is for it to be emptier than the genpop lanes.

Not empty, but free flowing. I think it fits that purpose today on most routes during rush hour, with current levels of EV ownership, and the few who actually carpool in the traditional sense.

Prior to EVs, they were too empty IMO.

[s211]

Originally Posted by madog222

The traffic demand doesn't warrant a third general purpose lane here, it's a very rural stretch with mostly through traffic until the highway reaches Abbotsford.

I'm dying to know how a post from the late 1960s somehow resurfaced on this forum.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The thing that you're missing here is that the Fraser Valley denizens also use the highway to commute between points in the Valley. Sure, if you only had to deal with the through traffic it may not be an issue, but that highway is the most convenient link for local traffic in the Valley too.

Those FVRD residents who use the highway to commute between points in FVRD won't benefit from this project then, which is entirely within the Metro Vancouver Regional District.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The thing that you're missing here is that the Fraser Valley denizens also use the highway to commute between points in the Valley. Sure, if you only had to deal with the through traffic it may not be an issue, but that highway is the most convenient link for local traffic in the Valley too.

That'll be Abbotsford-Chilliwack, which only has to worry about 14k FVRD commuters or two lanes (the rest of the traffic is presumably from the Interior). This one is Carvolth-Aldergrove.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by s211

I'm dying to know how a post from the late 1960s somehow resurfaced on this forum.

Doesn't matter when or why - it'll still be relevant in 2040.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That'll be Abbotsford-Chilliwack, which only has to worry about 14k FVRD commuters or two lanes (the rest of the traffic is presumably from the Interior). This one is Carvolth-Aldergrove.

Local traffic uses Highway 1 along its entire length from Vancouver to Hope. There really aren't many decent alternatives for people traveling in the corridor between Surrey and Abbotsford area. So quoting only 22K worth of commuter traffic that's destined for downtown is understating the demand. This should be obvious from the fact that the highway is generally congested throughout the day despite those supposedly low (22K) commuter traffic numbers that are well below your source's estimate of 4-lane capacity (36K).

I'm not trying to make a point that 3 lanes isn't enough, merely that you need to account for more than just Vancouver commuters.

[WarrenC12]

The fact that #1 splits into 3 highways at Hope and is our only real road connection to the rest of the country says it all.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

- snip -

Surrey and Langley, actually - less than a quarter of FVRD commuters are going across the Fraser. More to the point, Phase 2 is part of Metro Van, between Carvolth and Aldergrove, and since the Valley ends at Abbotsford (at least on paper), I doubt residents commuting to fixed work addresses within the Valley would count towards it. Tradespeople possibly, but truckers appear to have their own lane in the redesign.

Likewise, I don't doubt that there's a lot of non-Valley drivers, only the idea that 22k (plus Squamish/Lower Mainland/Kamloops/Okanagan/Alberta traffic) will grow beyond 36k plus HOV/bus/truck lanes by whatever Klazu's timetable is. We both understand that it's a little more nuanced than "there's a lot of cars and traffic is slow, therefore we need six GP lanes."

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The fact that #1 splits into 3 highways at Hope and is our only real road connection to the rest of the country says it all.

Going to not pick this, the number one splits into 2 (5 and 3) and the 7 continues as the 1 into the canyon.

So technically you do also have the 7 which has the same capacity as the #1.

Honestly the #7 is a decent drive if you want to avoid the #1.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Local traffic uses Highway 1 along its entire length from Vancouver to Hope.

I'm not trying to make a point that 3 lanes isn't enough, merely that you need to account for more than just Vancouver commuters.

this is like the Upper Levels Highway. that thing seriously needs a collector/express lanes setup through the north shore. so many people use it as a "local" street since there are almost no alternatives.

it would probably be beneficial to have all of Highway 1 having this set up from West Van - Hope. its our only real freeway going E/W and it cuts through the middle of cities it natural turns into both a freeway and local street.

that should be the ultimate goal of the freeway moving into the future. i could see a 1 HOV + 3 GP express + 2 local going from West Van - Hope being reasonable. maybe 4 GP express going through the Burnaby stretch since its so central in our region.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Going to not pick this, the number one splits into 2 (5 and 3) and the 7 continues as the 1 into the canyon.

So technically you do also have the 7 which has the same capacity as the #1.

Honestly the #7 is a decent drive if you want to avoid the #1.

Nope, Hwy 1 continuously runs from exit 170 through Hope to where the 7 joins it.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by madog222

Nope, Hwy 1 continuously runs from exit 170 through Hope to where the 7 joins it.

I’m not talking about the official nonsensical numbering. (The 5 should be the 1).

I’m talking about how the roads flow as they are built. There is no interruption in roadway flow between the 7 as it transitions to the 1.

I thought that would be self evident in my comment.

The 1 departing the freeway, running though downtown Hope, and then taking over from the 7 going East is stupid.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I’m not talking about the official nonsensical numbering. (The 5 should be the 1).

I’m talking about how the roads flow as they are built. There is no interruption in roadway flow between the 7 as it transitions to the 1.

I thought that would be self evident in my comment.

The 1 departing the freeway, running though downtown Hope, and then taking over from the 7 going East is stupid.

All non-freeway highways in the province run through the centre of towns with traffic lights and stop signs. I don't see how any of your points support your argument.

If the province designates a stretch of roadway as a highway than it's a highway, that's all the word means. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by madog222

All non-freeway highways in the province run through the centre of towns with traffic lights and stop signs. I don't see how any of your points support your argument.

Your obviously being intentionally obtuse at this point.

One last time though.

The #7 on the northwest side of the Fraser River becomes the #1 when entering the canyon. The number changes but the road itself acts as a single continuous route. This is because, where the 7 becomes the 1, there is no exit one needs to take, there is no need to reduce speed, etc… One just continues to drive.

The #1 on the southeast side of the Fraser River (freeway) becomes the #5 (freeway) and acts as a single continuous route. Again, the route number changes, but there is no exit one needs to take, there is no need to reduce speed, one continues to just drive straight. The #3 branches off from this route into its own route.

So, from a driver’s perspective, there are two routes through the Valley going east that are continuous into the mountains, a third option branching off from the continuous freeway 1/5 route.

The numbering is nonsensical.

If there were no signs, one driving the 7 east would never guess that it become the 1, and one driving the 1 east would never guess it became the 5.

[madog222]

You insisted the freeway splits into two, not three, this sign says otherwise. https://maps.app.goo.gl/qj5P4qBgGP4wu3rQ8

The 7 has nothing to do with this, I don't know why you keep bringing it up. Even if it was relevant the majority of Fraser Canyon traffic uses the freeway west of the canyon, not Lougheed. Using the anal-retentive argument that "the road itself acts as a single continuous route" doesn't hold up to the fact the 7 exits off of and merges onto the 1 at that junction.

[chowhou]

I think we all agree that Highway 1 technically splits in 3 in Hope, but the important additional detail (which was left out by the original commenter) is that Highway 7 AKA Lougheed highway also merges with Highway 1 in Hope so Highway 1 isn't the only connection we have to the rest of the country. (Not to mention Highway 99)

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I think we all agree that Highway 1 technically splits in 3 in Hope...

I think the road layout and numbering is basically irrelevant to the original comment about "Highway 1 splits into three", which is really talking about traffic volumes rather than technical minutiae.

So while Highway 1 in the Fraser Canyon may be viewed as a direct no-exit extension of the Haig highway, in practice most of the traffic coming from and to the Fraser Canyon probably flows to and from the freeway via Hope. That, added to the traffic from highways 3 and 5 is where the "three" comes from in "splits into three".

Of course, not all of the Fraser Canyon traffic follows that routing, so maybe "splits into 2-1/2" is more accurate?

But all of this is being rather pedantic. The essential point is that the freeway collects traffic from and delivers traffic to multiple highways beyond Hope. One could argue that there are between 6 (Coq and Crowsnest) and 8 (add Fraser Canyon) lanes of traffic feeding into the 4-lane Highway 1 through the Fraser Valley.

But it's not like the lanes beyond Hope are particularly congested, so the point seems a bit moot to me.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I think the road layout and numbering is basically irrelevant to the original comment about "Highway 1 splits into three", which is really talking about traffic volumes rather than technical minutiae.

So while Highway 1 in the Fraser Canyon may be viewed as a direct no-exit extension of the Haig highway, in practice most of the traffic coming from and to the Fraser Canyon probably flows to and from the freeway via Hope. That, added to the traffic from highways 3 and 5 is where the "three" comes from in "splits into three".

Of course, not all of the Fraser Canyon traffic follows that routing, so maybe "splits into 2-1/2" is more accurate?

But all of this is being rather pedantic. The essential point is that the freeway collects traffic from and delivers traffic to multiple highways beyond Hope. One could argue that there are between 6 (Coq and Crowsnest) and 8 (add Fraser Canyon) lanes of traffic feeding into the 4-lane Highway 1 through the Fraser Valley.

But it's not like the lanes beyond Hope are particularly congested, so the point seems a bit moot to me.

But in reverse not all traffic coming from the 3 and 5 goes to the Lower Mainland via the #1. Many times myself, and people I know, would come off the 3, got to Hope, and use the 7. It’s especially useful if you live in Mission, Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows, and to some extent the Tri-Cities.

Point remains, the #1 isn’t the only route east to the Mountains. The #7 has the same capacity as the #1 does through the canyon.

And for what it’s worth, the route numbers should be the Coquihalla as the #1, and the #1 from Hope through the canyons to Kamloops becoming the 7.

The 5A through Nicola Valley can just be returned to the 5.