New BC Political Discussion - POST BC Election 2017

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Except for the construction of the dam and reservoir, of course. But then again, if you take construction into account solar isn't all that green either. Hydro's operation is non-polluting (except they've found that reservoirs emit more methane than we previously thought) so I guess in that sense it's green, but all that cement needs to be made, construction vehicles need to operate during its construction, etc, etc, etc. And the impact to the surrounding environment caused by flooding a valley isn't nothing too.

But as you say, of all the options it's the least shitty one. But let's not pretend that hydro is "green" and doesn't have any impact. Renewable is a much better term.

Generally, higher emitting reservoirs are in the tropics. In BC, not so much, especially if the topsoil is stripped out.

Glaciers scraped so much of the soils away that whole lot else is left to generate methane or CO2. Generally, there is so much less decaying plant matter in temperate areas that experts generally put hydro plants at about 4g CO2e / kWh.

Wind power and solar are both in the 20-60g CO2e / kWh range, from the manufacturing of the equipment and the generally shorter lifespan. Silicon, steel and concrete are all needed in huge quantities for turbines and wind plants.

Geothermal also generates some CO2 from releasing trapped gas. The earthquake side effect is also pretty cool

For reference, coal emits several hundred grams per kWh generated.

Site C is also an earthen fill dam, which is basically a succession of sorted soil sizes. Earth fill is way less energy intensive to construct than concrete.

Lastly, concrete has been shown to reabsorb most of the CO2 originally emitted during it's lifespan. It's not nearly as bad as people first presumed. Carbonates form in fractures, which sequesters the CO2.

[ClaytonA]

Re Site C;

There's a good discussion on VoBC how Site C could be the biggest decision the NDP makes (Green's have already said there against it, Liberals for it). Starts at 41:30;

https://vimeo.com/236117772

Good points that the Independent Power Producers have and will be more expensive than BC Hydro building itself. And the other 5 First Nations having hundreds of millions of benefit agreements; all First Nations are not all the same. Internal to the party it could be significant too, the urban environmental side versus the trade union/labour side of the party. In the 1990's bowing to the urban environmental side didn't end well for Clayoquot Sound-like issues. It really split the party's base. NDP strongholds like Vancouver Island North, etc even went Liberal for a while. Proportional representation and allowing all voices to be heard forcing collaboration could really help complicated issues like this. There's always been different urban and rural issues; this still reverberates - https://globalnews.ca/news/774070/twenty...uot-sound-still-reverberates-across-b-c/

Someone releasing all the detailed budget numbers really hurts the project too.
Homeowner: "I've got $12,000 for a new deck, so how much will you charge me to build it?"
Contractor: "How about $12,500."

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/10/13/Kill-Site-C-Former-Hydro-CEO-Tells-Commission/

The Tyee. Isn't that just the left's equivalent of Fox News?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by s211

The Tyee. Isn't that just the left's equivalent of Fox News?

Haha true, not normally a source I'd quote though having an ex-CEO of BC Hydro stating the opionion lends weight to it.

[whatnext]

Promise kept: bill to ban union and corporate donations from municipal elections and limit individual contributions to $1,200:

http://www.vancourier.com/news/ndp-bill-...-donations-in-local-elections-1.23079218

[GlassCity]

Voting system consultation underway right now:

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/howwevote/

I voiced support for a ranked ballot, which by their options meant STV. I don't want to start voting for party, rather than a candidate, even though that's essentially the system we have now. I also don't want to start splitting votes between party and candidate, and all that complicated stuff. I'd prefer ranked ballot (AV) but seems like they're not interested in it.

Overall, I'd just like to see more voices represented, whether that means more varied candidates that aren't whipped to the Green/NDP/Liberal mantra, or more parties. I'm hoping STV would be able to take care of one or both of these.

[whatnext]

So it turns out the BC Fiberals scrubbed a whole bunch of recommendations to fix ICBC from a 2014 Ernst & Young Report while they continued to siphon money out of the corp to balance their budgets:

...Those urgently needed actions to cut ICBC’s rising claims costs were hidden from B.C.taxpayers, arbitrarily rejected, and unilaterally deleted from the March 2015 final report by former finance minister and current Liberal leadership hopeful, Mike de Jong.

He admits as much, incredibly, making no apologies. He almost seems proud of his perfidy, doing his own best impression of a human airbag.

If then transportation minister and current co-leadership contender Todd Stone is to be believed, that draft report was doctored by de Jong without his knowledge.

He claims he never even saw that unvarnished analysis, despite the fact that he was the minister who commissioned it. He suggests that he was essentially hoodwinked by de Jong and willfully kept in the dark like the happy mushroom he was....

https://www.straight.com/news/1025306/ma...cs-icbc-fiasco-guaranteed-drive-you-nuts

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So it turns out the BC Fiberals scrubbed a whole bunch of recommendations to fix ICBC from a 2014 Ernst & Young Report while they continued to siphon money out of the corp to balance their budgets:

...Those urgently needed actions to cut ICBC’s rising claims costs were hidden from B.C.taxpayers, arbitrarily rejected, and unilaterally deleted from the March 2015 final report by former finance minister and current Liberal leadership hopeful, Mike de Jong.

He admits as much, incredibly, making no apologies. He almost seems proud of his perfidy, doing his own best impression of a human airbag.

If then transportation minister and current co-leadership contender Todd Stone is to be believed, that draft report was doctored by de Jong without his knowledge.

He claims he never even saw that unvarnished analysis, despite the fact that he was the minister who commissioned it. He suggests that he was essentially hoodwinked by de Jong and willfully kept in the dark like the happy mushroom he was....

https://www.straight.com/news/1025306/ma...cs-icbc-fiasco-guaranteed-drive-you-nuts

The Liberals deserve nothing less than decades in the wilderness for the way they have (deliberately) mismanaged Crown corps. The fact they try to deflect this back to the NDP is breathtaking arrogance. "Eby has had a report on his desk since July! How dare they not have already fixed a problem that was years in the making and hid from the public!"

And of course we have lots of people falling for the privatization trap in response to this, just as the Liberals and their donors want. Not understanding that it would have been much easier to guarantee the sustainability of public insurance for decades to come if they hadn't had successive governments raiding the treasury for money.

Too bad we've become so apathetic. Outside those who watch politics regularly, I don't see a lot of anger. And people should be livid over the way the Liberals mismanaged the public insurer and conspired to hide the facts from the public. $400 a year in rate hikes is a lot of money — even the prospect of it should outrage people.

A scandal of this magnitude 20 years ago would have set off a nuke in Victoria. The cynic in me is worried thatm not only will the BC Liberals will get away with what they did, they'll work with private interests and lobby groups to flip this around and get public opinion on side against the NDP if the new government doesn't fix (read: privatize) ICBC right away. What the Liberals did was essentially embezzle funds from Crowns, not just ICBC, to pad the general ledgers. Think about it. The kind of thing that very well could and should land people in jail.

Either way, if this is the end of the BC Liberals' useful life as the free enterprise party of our generation, most of these corrupt and bought pols will just resurface in 10 years like many of the disgraced Saskatchewan PCs did in the Saskatchewan Party.

[WarrenC12]

^^^^^^

Yes I see far more outrage over a $600k bike lane on Cambie than the mismanagement of Billions of public dollars. It's ridiculous.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

^^^^^^

Yes I see far more outrage over a $600k bike lane on Cambie than the mismanagement of Billions of public dollars. It's ridiculous.

I don't think it's an outrage over the amount being spent. It's the fact that every time VV installs or makes a change to infrastructure "it will have little to no effect on traffic". Traffic has gotten progressively worse (anecdotally) since VV got into power.

NOW for ICBC, the liberals really are going to take this one on the chin but saying that the NDP is just a bunch of recycled clark era cronies as well.

The fact that ICBC cannot operate with some of the highest rates in the country is insane. Government should regulate the insurance business, but they shouldn't be in the insurance business, same can be said for the liquor business and anything else that private industry has done a reasonably good job administering and running. It is unnecessary expense and risk that the taxpayers shouldn't be exposed to when we could tax/levy all the businesses we are in to generate the same if not more revenue.

[s211]

Just open the vehicle insurance market to free competition. Get it over with.

My BC car insurance is double, DOUBLE what it was in Alberta, and that's with a 30+ year clean driving record. Screw ICBC. It was created by the NDP, and you can be sure they won't blow up their darling.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by s211

Just open the vehicle insurance market to free competition. Get it over with.

My BC car insurance is double, DOUBLE what it was in Alberta, and that's with a 30+ year clean driving record. Screw ICBC. It was created by the NDP, and you can be sure they won't blow up their darling.

Alberta. Different province...different risks. I still have no clue why we compare rates with the Praries.

You are super naive if you think private companies will offer competitive rates in a market that is full of stupid drivers. We'd probably end up with an oligopoly and sky high insurance rates without an ounce of consideration for anyone. This is BC...corporations are going to charge what they feel they can.

Fact is there is too many people here that should not be driving and most of these people are driving luxury vehicles. Other issue is you have people of certain demographics intentionally causing accidents and trying to cash in off minor collisions.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by s211

Just open the vehicle insurance market to free competition. Get it over with.

My BC car insurance is double, DOUBLE what it was in Alberta, and that's with a 30+ year clean driving record. Screw ICBC. It was created by the NDP, and you can be sure they won't blow up their darling.

The issue is more with the high minimums that ICBC requires, and not competition. Apples to apples comparisons for the benefits you get with ICBC show that other provinces are more expensive, and not less. Now when you cut 3rd party liability to 200k and cut all sorts of other benefits, then you start to see lower prices. If anything, we should lower those minimums offered to allow for more bare-bones insurance. However, there will, of course, be tradeoffs to this as well.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Spork

The issue is more with the high minimums that ICBC requires, and not competition. Apples to apples comparisons for the benefits you get with ICBC show that other provinces are more expensive, and not less. Now when you cut 3rd party liability to 200k and cut all sorts of other benefits, then you start to see lower prices. If anything, we should lower those minimums offered to allow for more bare-bones insurance. However, there will, of course, be tradeoffs to this as well.

Going from memory, my coverage between the two province was pretty much like-for-like. Coming from BC to Alberta, I pretty much duplicated my coverage as I just took it to be standard. ICBC can claim otherwise, but I had living proof back in the day.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Alberta. Different province...different risks. I still have no clue why we compare rates with the Praries.

You are super naive if you think private companies will offer competitive rates in a market that is full of stupid drivers. We'd probably end up with an oligopoly and sky high insurance rates without an ounce of consideration for anyone. This is BC...corporations are going to charge what they feel they can.

Fact is there is too many people here that should not be driving and most of these people are driving luxury vehicles. Other issue is you have people of certain demographics intentionally causing accidents and trying to cash in off minor collisions.

Indeed. Typical case in point:
https://www.google.ca/amp/vancouversun.c...50-kmh-in-vancouver-avoids-jail-time/amp

And just last night two young men in their early twenties managed to drive a late model Mercedes into the No Frills on W.4th. British Columbians deserve to know more about those who are causing the most accidents and making expensive claims. It’s owned by us after all.

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Indeed. Typical case in point:
https://www.google.ca/amp/vancouversun.c...50-kmh-in-vancouver-avoids-jail-time/amp

“Provincial Court Judge David St. Pierre: ...Having said all that, what’s the appropriate sentence for someone like this? That’s the hardest thing a judge has to decide.”

HORSE SH!T. The judgement is no deterrent, and practically condones reckless driving that could easily have caused deaths. I'm astounded.

[whatnext]

BC Liberals select a new leader tonight. Doesn't seem to be much interest in the race though!

[logicbomb]

Dianne Watts could win this. Christy Clark P.II.

Andrew Wilkinson? Great move! The best of the bunch and will likely lead the BC Liberals back into government. Horgan and Weaver better start getting their shit together if they want to stay in government.

[Sheba]

Andrew Wilkinson named new leader of BC Liberals

Wilkinson beat out Dianne Watts and Michael Lee in a tight contest that took five counts to decide.

...

The field of six candidates includes three veterans with deep cabinet experience, two former big city mayors and a first-time member of the legislature from Metro Vancouver.

Mike de Jong, Andrew Wilkinson and Todd Stone were longtime members of Clark’s cabinet.

Sullivan, a former Vancouver mayor, was appointed to cabinet in the dying days of Clark’s government last summer.

The field also includes Lee, a Vancouver lawyer who was elected to the legislature last spring, and Watts, a former Conservative MP and one-time mayor of Surrey.

[GlassCity]

Wilkinson was the guy I liked the least, seemed the most conservative. Will be interesting to see what policy changes are brought in now.