O-Train Line 1/3 [ Stage 2 | East Extension | Blair to Trim] | U/C

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If you are live in the east half of the city, Kanata is far from easily accessible. I know somebody in my neighbourhood who works their and it is a horrible commute. Forget about transit too. Way too inconvenient. And moving is out of the question since her husband works in the east end of the city.

It seems to me that you are writing off the second biggest concentration of jobs in the city.

On the other hand, a Trim extension does not compare to the cost of a Kanata extension and our plans don't take LRT to the employment area anyways.

When I last looked at the Trim station plans, I found it odd that the station was not being placed adjacent to the Park n Ride lot.

I wonder if people would use transit to get to jobs in Kanata. Most are in office park type developments surrounded by lots of free parking and far from the road (with a few exceptions such as Shopify, these seems to be how the tech sector likes to conduct business). Even if the LRT were extended out, I couldn't see it being better than driving in terms of time or cost or comfort.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Local bus->BRT->LRT
instead of
Local bus->LRT
or how it works today
Local bus->BRT

I don't think that's how you increase ridership

I believe the plan is to extend to local routes to the LRT stations inside the greenbelt (at least in the east end) so it would still be:

Local bus->LRT

They will do the same in the west after they extend the LRT past Tunnies (it would be too long for Barrhaven and Kanata locals to go all the way to Tunnies).

For Riverside South the LRT extension doesn't make sense as it will be:

Local bus->LRT->LRT

as the lines won't be connected.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

Where are the Barrhaven councillors complaining? Dammit! Where is the complaints coming from Winchester! This is an outrage!

But in all seriousness, extending the LRT to Trim before going to Kanata is silly. But not as silly as not fixing trainsit in the inner-city to make sure all those coming from Orleans and Kanata can get to where the need to go.

Or making sure those originating in the inner city can get to where they need to go, whether that be elsewhere in the inner city, or elsewhere on the rapid transit routes that are being built, in whatever mode, to the far outer suburbs.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If you are live in the east half of the city, Kanata is far from easily accessible.

If you live in Kanata, and don't get around by car, Kanata is far from easily accessible. Even by North American suburban standards, overplanned Kanata is horribly planned for pretty well anything.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I believe the plan is to extend to local routes to the LRT stations inside the greenbelt (at least in the east end) so it would still be:

Local bus->LRT

They will do the same in the west after they extend the LRT past Tunnies (it would be too long for Barrhaven and Kanata locals to go all the way to Tunnies).

For Riverside South the LRT extension doesn't make sense as it will be:

Local bus->LRT->LRT

as the lines won't be connected.

In Riverside South, during off-peak hours, it will be local bus>LRT>LRT>LRT

In my neighbourhood, during off-peak hours, it will be local bus>BRT>LRT or local bus>LRT>LRT (pick your poison)

Both of these scenarios are after Phase 2

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If you live in Kanata, and don't get around by car, Kanata is far from easily accessible. Even by North American suburban standards, overplanned Kanata is horribly planned for pretty well anything.

I seem to remember Kanata having a rule that all of the local streets must have at least one 90 degree turn in it to prevent drag racing. The exceptions were the regional roads (like Hazeldean, Eagleson and Terry Fox). It may have been good for traffic control but it makes it very difficult to get anywhere efficiently (regardless of your mode of transport).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I seem to remember Kanata having a rule that all of the local streets must have at least one 90 degree turn in it to prevent drag racing. The exceptions were the regional roads (like Hazeldean, Eagleson and Terry Fox). It may have been good for traffic control but it makes it very difficult to get anywhere efficiently (regardless of your mode of transport).

Except that there are hardly any 90-degree angles - or any other angles - in Kanata. It's all curves and swirls, which don't do a whole lot to impede speeds. (The topology does, granted, but it also makes it hellish to get around in anything other than a car.)

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Except that there are hardly any 90-degree angles - or any other angles - in Kanata. It's all curves and swirls, which don't do a whole lot to impede speeds. (The topology does, granted, but it also makes it hellish to get around in anything other than a car.)

Hellish in a car too, in my opinion.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Hellish in a car too, in my opinion.

True. I wish someone would quantify the wasted hours, fuel, and maintenance that these awful street layouts and hierarchies - which we are still approving and the developers are still building - cost us collectively every year.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If you live in Kanata, and don't get around by car, Kanata is far from easily accessible. Even by North American suburban standards, overplanned Kanata is horribly planned for pretty well anything.

If you live and Kanata and don't have a car, what the hell are you doing in Kanata!? That place is hands down the most car-centric place in Ottawa IMO.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If you live and Kanata and don't have a car, what the hell are you doing in Kanata!? That place is hands down the most car-centric place in Ottawa IMO.

Many people (especially co-op students and new grads) who work in Kanata want to live close to where they work. Everyone talks about the car culture in Kanata Hi-Tech, but many people want to take the bus but the poor service "forces" them to buy a car. I know many people who started using transit but later switched to a car. Others have investigated transit and discovered it would take triple the time (ignoring the time waiting for the bus).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If you live and Kanata and don't have a car, what the hell are you doing in Kanata!? That place is hands down the most car-centric place in Ottawa IMO.

(Formerly) visiting people who have since had the good sense to move out. Had to take the bus because there are no direct flights from Ottawa to Kanata.

[J.OT13]

In any case, O-Train service won't solve Kanata's problem, assuming the Sens move downtow (which will actually solve a big part of Kanata's problems). Better local bus service is all that's required.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In any case, O-Train service won't solve Kanata's problem, assuming the Sens move downtow (which will actually solve a big part of Kanata's problems). Better local bus service is all that's required.

DMU service between Greenboro and the Kanata Business Park using existing rail would cut travel times at least in half. And connections to Algonquin College would be significantly improved as well.

[Richard Eade]

This is getting a bit too far away from the East-end LRT, so I'll comment in the Dream Transit thread.

[Dundas]

Quote:
Confederation Line East is one of the three major extensions to Ottawa’s rail transit system planned between 2018 and 2023.

Originally Posted by Dundas

From the stage2 website.

Do you think the city will extend the otrain east station by station once they are ready for service or will they wait until it reaches Place Orleans? Next question I'm wondering about is if the east end part will be ready before 2023 since it seems like the easier extension of the stage2. The website says between 2018 and 2023.

Let's try this again.

[Richard Eade]

What I expect to happen is this; (For reference, I will number the lanes from the center: 5-4-3-2-1-median-1-2-3-4-5.)

1. The OR174 will be widened by two lanes per direction, without a shoulder lane; adding lane 5 and ½ of lane 4. This construction happens ½ a lane away from the current bus lane.
2. Buses will be moved to the outside lanes (lane 5) and cars will be moved inward, running partly on the median (current inner shoulder), lane 1 and ½ of lane 2. Traffic speed will be reduced but not bus speed.
3. Lane 3 is rehabilitated and lane 4 is completed. Construction will be expanded as far into lane 2 as practical.
4. Traffic will be moved onto lanes 3 and 4, again at a reduced speed.
5. Lane 2 and ½ of lane 1 will be rehabilitated and the train tracks and OCS will be added to the median and the inner ½ of lane 1.
6. Traffic will be redistributed to two lanes in each direction with wide shoulders on each side of each direction or three lanes per direction with narrow shoulders.

This sequence maintains two general traffic lanes, although at reduced speed, and one high-speed bus lane throughout the construction of the running lanes. There will likely be major traffic and bus disruption at overpasses that need to be lengthened.

Because of my imagined construction sequence, I would expect that the entire length of the LRT’s eastern extension will be completed before any of it is opened. This looks like a five-year project to me so I wouldn't expect that it will be opened before 2023, assuming it gets started in 2018.

PS There is little point in widening that section of the OR174 to three lanes per direction, unless a lot of west-bound people exit to the 417 (east-bound) or St. Laurent Boulevard, since the City made sure that there was only room for two west-bound lanes of the OR174 under the new Cyrville Bridge.

[Dundas]

Thanks for your detailed reply , looking at it now it really seems like it will take until 2023 to finish it all.

[Kitchissippi]

The way I see it, in order for the LRT to go into the median it would probably have to pass under the westbound lanes, so there would likely be a messy construction situation at that point.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The way I see it, in order for the LRT to go into the median it would probably have to pass under the westbound lanes, so there would likely be a messy construction situation at that point.

“under the westbound lanes” – why so?

Currently the east-bound lane of the Transitway flies over the OR174 to the south side. The ramp from the underpass of Blair to that fly-over is about 400 metres; which, at 4% grade, could, potentially, represent an elevation change of 16 metres. That is much more than needed to get the tracks over the west-bound lanes and into the median. Once over the west-bound lanes, the LRT would need about 200 metres to return to grade; so it would ‘land’ roughly beside the overhead sign.

The existing fly-over structure will need to be removed before the OR174 lanes can be pushed apart. This means that the east-bound buses will be in mixed traffic between Blair Station and the bus lane along the OR174. That bus lane might be extended west to become a continuation of the N/S-E ramp. Once that is done, the fly-over can be removed and the highway’s running lanes moved apart; as per my previous suggestion.

Frankly, I think that the City should be using the existing pedestrian overpass of the OR174 to speed east-bound buses by removing the bus’s loop into Blair Station. A new off-ramp could be created from the east-bound lanes, under the pedestrian overpass, up to a new intersection with Blair. I would suggest that this ramp be for all traffic so that the circular off-ramp can be removed. The south side of the interchange would be a ½ ‘diamond’. Something like this:



Buses could stop at a new stop near the pedestrian overpass and then go straight across Blair to get back onto the OR174. Transit passengers would use the pedestrian overpass to cross the OR174 to Blair Station. Also, as an added bonus, the ‘weave’ problem of accelerating cars coming from the east-bound OR174 crossing the decelerating cars going to the west-bound OR174 is removed.