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  #21821  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 6:51 PM
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What kind of transit upgrade could Halifax get in the future? Is the city's geography conducive towards building a LRT/subway, or is it more of a BRT outlook?
     
     
  #21822  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GeneralLeeTPHLS View Post
I'm thinking Halifax may need to look into a higher order of transit down the road, going N/S, but that's 10 to 20 years from now.
One thing we can guarantee is that Halifax will look into higher order transit when it needs to. Not when it would be good, useful, and a major improvement to the city, but when it has no other choice because the city can't function otherwise. At that point, the city will definitely "look into it."
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  #21823  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 6:55 PM
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Last edited by Rico Rommheim; Nov 19, 2022 at 7:24 PM.
     
     
  #21824  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
One thing we can guarantee is that Halifax will look into higher order transit when it needs to. Not when it would be good, useful, and a major improvement to the city, but when it has no other choice because the city can't function otherwise. At that point, the city will definitely "look into it."
I'm curious about how many people in Halifax or NS understand what is happening there demographically. Statistics Canada said NS grew by about 3% during the last year (GDP up something near 7%). For several decades there was slow growth in NS and it was normal to take a leisurely view of projects with the understanding that there wasn't much time pressure and managing budgets was most important.

One thing that happened was NS planning a new hospital in Halifax. They said they had to go back to the drawing board because the design is too undersized. For rapid transit, if a system is to be actually operational in 10 years, the planning needs to either be accelerated or already started. My impression is that transit planning is stalled and the province won't fund the existing plan which is already undersized.

The factor "saving" the city so far is that it had a relatively large inner city with a lot of old underused infrastructure and a lot of leapfrog sprawl that could be filled in. But without new transportation infrastructure eventually there will be a very expensive core disconnected from a decentralized fabric of suburbia. Not the end of the world but it would be better to have good infrastructure.
     
     
  #21825  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim View Post
What kind of transit upgrade could Halifax get in the future? Is the city's geography conducive towards building a LRT/subway, or is it more of a BRT outlook?
It's hard to build a single route that would serve big share of the metro. The next step might actually be fast ferries but there is BRT as well (there were BRT routes built in 2005 or so). Something like underground portions of light rail is probably not as far-fetched as a lot of people think; tunnels solve the main problem of navigating through the geographical bottlenecks and around the strange street network.

It is too bad that Cogswell is getting redone and there wasn't much transit planning or discussion underground infrastructure. The plan is for a transit mall with buses around there that probably would have made sense around 1992, but is likely to be clogged all the time. I am not even sure they are planning to replace the above-ground pedways in that area with underground paths. Most of the discussion of the public development around there revolved around how great the cost recovery from land sales would be. A lot of politicians are trapped in that mentality, while private developers are thinking much bigger.
     
     
  #21826  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
One thing we can guarantee is that Halifax will look into higher order transit when it needs to. Not when it would be good, useful, and a major improvement to the city, but when it has no other choice because the city can't function otherwise. At that point, the city will definitely "look into it."
Apologies, my choice of words was improper.
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  #21827  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2022, 1:03 AM
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Proper or not, it's all too accurate unfortunately. But who knows, maybe the city will grow up soon.
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  #21828  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2022, 11:05 AM
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The most realistic system for Halifax would probably be a sort of tram with underground stations in the core. Quinpool-Barrington-South would be a good loop for this, with the thing going underground around Cogswell, through stations at the Grand Parade, Barrington/Spring Garden and the train station and then emerging onto the surface again.

Robie would also be a good road for an intersecting tram.
     
     
  #21829  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2022, 1:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
The most realistic system for Halifax would probably be a sort of tram with underground stations in the core. Quinpool-Barrington-South would be a good loop for this, with the thing going underground around Cogswell, through stations at the Grand Parade, Barrington/Spring Garden and the train station and then emerging onto the surface again.

Robie would also be a good road for an intersecting tram.
I agree that a tram solution is probaly best for the Halifax peninsula...perhaps laying rail in two or three touching/intersecting loops. I'd like to see the original 'Birney' name restored. I'd also like to see LRT looping the peninsula and Bedford Basin in a figure-8 pattern with a transfer station near the McKay bridge/north end of the peninsula. And obvious routes for LRT would be through Clayton Park, Cole Harbour and Spryfield; each terminating/originating at a station bordering the Loop LRT. Given our topography and soil composition, I'd be happy seeing at grade with elevated portions for the LRT.
     
     
  #21830  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2022, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim View Post
Excellence, Rico.

I gotta get back to Montreal one day.
     
     
  #21831  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2022, 5:31 PM
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Excellence, Rico.

I gotta get back to Montreal one day.
Thanks!


Montreal in mid-november_4 by Foofoo MacShoe, on Flickr


Montreal in mid-november_4 by Foofoo MacShoe, on Flickr


Montreal in mid-november_4 by Foofoo MacShoe, on Flickr


Intersting to see that Le 1000 is no longer a major event in the skyline, at least not from this angle.

Montreal in mid-november_4 by Foofoo MacShoe, on Flickr


Montreal in mid-november_4 by Foofoo MacShoe, on Flickr

Two icons of the skylines: CBC and Molson. Both of these are now sitting empty. They took down the CBC sign last summer.

I've never been a fan of the maison radio-canada, and now that it sits derelict and empty it looks even worse.


DSC08918 by Foofoo MacShoe, on Flickr


Montreal in mid-november_4 by Foofoo MacShoe, on Flickr

Last edited by Rico Rommheim; Nov 20, 2022 at 5:58 PM.
     
     
  #21832  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2022, 6:09 PM
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  #21833  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2022, 6:19 PM
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  #21834  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2022, 9:20 PM
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  #21835  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2022, 10:38 PM
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A few cool Montreal drone video from the summer

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  #21836  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2022, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim View Post
What kind of transit upgrade could Halifax get in the future? Is the city's geography conducive towards building a LRT/subway, or is it more of a BRT outlook?
The geography of Halifax is more conducive for commuter rail. Specially now the peninsula is so expensive to live in, more and more people are moving to surrounding communities and travel to the peninsula for work. Plus the airport is so far away from the city, its such a pain to get there if you don't have a car. I hate to think how much a taxi costs to the airport these days. A commuter rail out that way would be great. A Commuter train or light metro would be the way to go for Halifax.
     
     
  #21837  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2022, 1:57 AM
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The main obstacle so far for commuter rail has been that CN controls the existing ROW and isn't willing to let the city use it for transit, because it's also the only rail access to the container terminals, so they prioritize freight as much as they can. There was some kind of joint proposal with VIA a few years ago but it fizzled out. The city and province both seem allergic to the idea of laying any track of their own. Halifax Transit in particular seems reluctant to introduce "from scratch" rail service, which would mean having to build new storage and maintenance facilities for the trains, and finding rail-adjacent land for those.

If nothing can be worked out with CN over the mid-term then I think an ambitious expansion of the ferry network, with further improvements to the bus network, is what we should aim for in practice in terms of regional transit. A lot of arterials actually have bus lanes now, which tends to work well. Larger-scale BRT could be worked into corridors like Dunbrack-Kearney Lake and various freeways (especially the 102 and 111). One of the problems with this, though, is that there are already staffing shortages for both bus and ferry operators, and large-scale expansion using these technologies makes us even more vulnerable to that.

A more ambitious solution would be a fully grade-separated system (underground on the Peninsula, above-ground off-Peninsula) that can use "driverless" vehicles like the SkyTrain. I honestly think that if the City committed to going that route it would work well - it would not result in net savings for Transit compared to not building it but it would be the most effective relief valve for commuters along the 102 corridor, even if it only went as far as Bedford. As that corridor becomes even more congested it's not hard to imagine a choice between a 60+ minute drive in gridlock from Larry Uteck with nowhere to park once you get to your destination vs. a 10-minute train ride + ~10-20 minutes to get to the station. We're very rapidly approaching the point where it can be pitched in that way and I think the public would support something like that - as long as there's something in it for Dartmouth

I think we could get by with 3 stations on the Peninsula - Downtown (ideally connecting the ferry terminal with Scotia Square), Robie/Quinpool (Commons), and Mumford - and complement these with a network of aerial trams above Robie, with stations at Young St, Quinpool, South St, and then crossing the Northwest Arm with a station at Fleming Park and a terminus at a "Mainland South Park & Ride". The rail line could emerge from underground with a station at Bayers/Joseph Howe/Dutch Village and then just run parallel to the 102 out to Bedford, with stations at Lacewood/102, Larry Uteck/102, and Hammonds Plains/102. Eventually this could extend to the airport or even to Hants County (if they decide to densify enough for this kind of thing, which seems likely) and could include stops in Fall River (if they decide to densify enough for this kind of thing, which does not seem likely) and Sunnyside and/or Cobequid. There is also room for multiple Bedford/Rockingham ferry routes in this scenario since they would be drawing commuters towards the harbour and away from the 102, the opposite of the LRT route, which would be good for traffic flow.

For political reasons we would need to see something on the Dartmouth side, and a system like that could run from Woodside above/parallel the 111, with stations at Portland, Main, MicMac Mall, Burnside/Highfield, and Windmill, then continue above Windmill and Wyse Roads to Bridge Terminal, then cross the Dartmouth Commons (either under or over-ground) to end at Alderney Landing. This could be complemented by an aerial tram running from Alderney along the Shubie Canal and Lake Banook to MicMac or Main, which could eventually be extended along Lake MicMac to Shubie Park and Dartmouth Crossing. Plus a ferry from the existing Woodside Terminal to Eastern Passage. The two systems could eventually be linked, but I think it might actually be an easier sell if they weren't, at first, other than integrating the ferry stations.
     
     
  #21838  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2022, 2:21 AM
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The issue with airport rail is that the rail corridor doesn't go that close to the airport terminal with the closest point being just under 6km. By comparison, the rail spur for the UPE in Toronto was only 3km but still accounted for a large chunk of the project's nearly half billion dollar cost. The one for Stanfield may not need to be elevated, but given the terrain it would still be costly relative to the ridership.
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  #21839  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2022, 5:07 PM
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Halifax has a higher density core that's pedestrian focused and low density suburbs with poor pedestrian connectivity. It is functionally similar to a medium sized European city core surrounded by American exurbs or a kind of Soviet tower block and US exurb hybrid.

I think the idea that there should be transit solutions for large parts of the metro area and that coverage needs to be sorted out before moving on to more expensive modes (how can we think about fantastical subways downtown when Fall River only gets 2 buses a day) has really held transit back. People already gave up on the idea that freeway development should go everywhere, but in Halifax that never really progressed to the idea that there should be other kinds of infrastructure in the non-freeway areas to fill the void. So there's a decent network of highways in the suburbs but the urban core is basically just a 1970 road network and "deck chair on the Titanic" solutions like fiddling with lane markings are the extent of what's available.
     
     
  #21840  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2022, 6:48 PM
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From the summer but a great pic non the less.
Looking South on the Toronto Skyline by A Great Capture, on Flickr
     
     
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